Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[Oleg Goldshmidt]

<NB: order of quotes from the OP reshuffled>

Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> writes:

> <...> because she connects without a Dialer (as all Linux customers
> do) 

I don't think that's true, although I am on direct DHCP myself.

> they cannot trace the problem any further than a superficial check
> which checks out OK.

FWIW, I have never used a dialer with a broadband connection, and I
have never heard a support person saying anything along the lines of
"since you do not use a dialer we cannot help you".

> 012 "sees" the modem, so they say the problem must be with Hot.

They have a point, see below.

> Furthermore, at 012 they inform me that it is Hot, not 012, that is
> providing the internet outside because there is no dialer. They say
> that they gave Hot "permission" to connect me directly to the
> internet this way. So if Hot can provide connections out, then why
> do we need ISPs at all?

AFAIK, your ISP is responsible for giving you the "logical" access,
i.e., providing you with an IP address from their pool, username,
password, mailbox, etc. The infrastructure provider (Hot in your case
and mine) are responsible for actually running the DHCP service that
provides you with the right address and routing you to the outside
world. They do this if they have the appropriate information from the
ISP (you are a customer with such and such contract, you use direct
DHCP, you have paid, etc., etc.). The reasons for the division of
labour are probably legal and can hardly be relevant..

> Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check
> if the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?

I always call Hot first since they are the ones who run the basic
services. I think just once in recent years they bounced me to Barak -
I forgot the exact reason but it sounded plausible, and the Barak's
techie chuckled and said, "Huh, they are right for once, would you
believe it?..."

> After two weeks of my mother-in-law not having internet access,

What exactly does this mean? Does she get an IP address? Does she get
an IP address from the ISP's range? Is she routed to the outside
world?

In my experience, being specific about the problem helps a lot.  Next
time you call Hot take care to gather the information and present them
with as detailed and focused description of the problem as you
can. E.g., "I powercycled my modem, it is synchronized, but DHCP gives
me X.X.X.X rather than Y.Y.Y.Y that I expect. I traceroute
www.google.com and it stops inside your network. It looks like you
guys don't assign me my ISP's address and don't route me to the world
- could you have a look why?". Once you have formulated the problem in
such terms - and assuming you appear knowledgeable and polite and
good-humoured - it is difficult for them to just wave you off. In my
experience, they are not so bad. I am usually more frustrated with
losing the service in the first place and waiting on the line and
waddling through the menus than with the support personnel themselves.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org