From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Thu May  1 21:45:45 2014
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 21:45:45 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: NTP
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>

Hi,

We have an array of devices and computers.  Two Linux machines, a win7 
box, an iMac, a Macbook Pro, an iPad, an iPad Mini, two iPods, three 
iPhones and two Nexus 7s.

We have Internet service from Bezeqint via Bezeq DSL.  We got a new router 
in February, which will become relevant shortly.

all our devices are configured to keep time synched automatically.  For 
the windows 7 machine, we installed a third-party time-keeping software 
instead o fallowing Windows to sync once a week.

all was working fine until I realised a couple of weeks ago that the 
windows machine was over 30 seconds slow.  Due to the time-keeping 
software installed, we were able to see that it hadn't managed to sync the 
time since 7 April.

I initially blamed Windows and the fact that I was running software that 
hadn't been updated in ten years.  But installing a windows port of NTP 
didn't fix things.

I then realised that my Linux machines weren't keeping time either.   They 
simply hadn't drifted as far, as Linux is better at keeping time.  The 
macs weren't either.

To cut a long lot of investigations short, I determined that I couldn't 
sync time using ntpd on port 123.  The only way I could get time sync to 
work was to use ntpdate with an unprivileged port.

I did some searching, and found a post (that I apparently didn't bookmark) 
that suggested that some sites block NTP traffic in order to prevent 
certain types of DOS attacks.  Users at such sites are expected to use NTP 
server(s) located within the network.

Since I tried a range of servers in a range of locations with no luck, I 
wondered if Bezeqint were doing the same thing.

I managed to find time.bezeqint.net but it doesn't seem to work either.

I called Bezeqint and had some difficulty explaining my problem to them in 
English.  When I did finally manage to get someone who knew what NTP is, 
they thought it might be  a problem with the router.  While this is 
possible, we got the router almost two months before the problem started.

I expect I might get a similar answer if I call them back again, and if I 
do call Bezeq about it, I expect them to blame Bezeqint and so-on.

Since nothing has changed in the last two weeks, I thought I might do 
better by asking here.

So I'm wondering:

1.  Is anyone else having this problem?

2.  Has anyone found a server that works?

3.  Any other ideas I've not thought of?

All our devices are now drifting at various rates and it's getting quite 
frustrating.

Geoff.



From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Thu May  1 22:02:20 2014
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 21:02:20 +0200
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
Message-ID: <20140501190219.GH2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>

On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:

> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?

Have you tried il.pool.ntp.org ?

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From const at makelinux.co.il  Fri May  2 00:51:07 2014
From: const at makelinux.co.il (Constantine Shulyupin)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 00:51:07 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <20140501190219.GH2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <20140501190219.GH2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>
Message-ID: <CAE7jHC-OBusc+L2OY1a8kzaeKV_Fz+9XrX_-2JZzCQUx=hOYDQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is only one inactive server on il.pool.ntp.org, see
http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/il
try asia.pool.ntp.org, europe.pool.ntp.org, anorth-america.pool.ntp.org

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il> wrote:
> On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>
> Have you tried il.pool.ntp.org ?
>
> --
> Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
> http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
> tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
> tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il



-- 
Constantine Shulyupin
http://www.MakeLinux.co.il/
Embedded Linux Systems
Tel Aviv


From baruch at tkos.co.il  Fri May  2 07:19:15 2014
From: baruch at tkos.co.il (Baruch Siach)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 07:19:15 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
Message-ID: <20140502041915.GE4531@tarshish>

Hi Geoff,

On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?

ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).

baruch

-- 
     http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
   - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -


From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Fri May  2 09:24:02 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 09:24:02 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <20140502041915.GE4531@tarshish>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <20140502041915.GE4531@tarshish>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WVyce9hGDfQZzgaq=w7mV_sT0FaKehfY2FJ-M_aBBpupw@mail.gmail.com>

1. If you are running ntp daemons on your linux machines then use ntpq to
query what it thinks it synchs with and its synch status.
2. Use traceroute with UDP port 123 to see whether you manage to reach the
server you pick.


On 2 May 2014 07:19, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:

> Hi Geoff,
>
> On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
> > 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>
> ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).
>
> baruch
>
> --
>      http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open
> Systems
> =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>    - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Fri May  2 14:11:29 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 14:11:29 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WVyce9hGDfQZzgaq=w7mV_sT0FaKehfY2FJ-M_aBBpupw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <20140502041915.GE4531@tarshish>
 <CAF9n_WVyce9hGDfQZzgaq=w7mV_sT0FaKehfY2FJ-M_aBBpupw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BNVrkRS=hL_AvYRauhKJpqiv8ZaUoaPBpP1ibB+gN6dYw@mail.gmail.com>

I've never had trouble with NTP... my guess is your ISP is blocking or
interfering, get a level 2 or better rep. they should be able to unblock it
if you make enough noise...
??? ????


2014-05-02 9:24 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:

> 1. If you are running ntp daemons on your linux machines then use ntpq to
> query what it thinks it synchs with and its synch status.
> 2. Use traceroute with UDP port 123 to see whether you manage to reach the
> server you pick.
>
>
> On 2 May 2014 07:19, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:
>
>> Hi Geoff,
>>
>> On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
>> > 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>>
>> ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).
>>
>> baruch
>>
>> --
>>      http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open
>> Systems
>>
>> =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>>    - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
>
> --
>  [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Fri May  2 18:13:07 2014
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 18:13:07 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
Message-ID: <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Geoff Shang <geoff at quitelikely.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have an array of devices and computers.  Two Linux machines, a win7
> box, an iMac, a Macbook Pro, an iPad, an iPad Mini, two iPods, three
> iPhones and two Nexus 7s.
>
> We have Internet service from Bezeqint via Bezeq DSL.  We got a new router
> in February, which will become relevant shortly.
>
> all our devices are configured to keep time synched automatically.  For
> the windows 7 machine, we installed a third-party time-keeping software
> instead o fallowing Windows to sync once a week.
>
> all was working fine until I realised a couple of weeks ago that the
> windows machine was over 30 seconds slow.  Due to the time-keeping software
> installed, we were able to see that it hadn't managed to sync the time
> since 7 April.
>
> I initially blamed Windows and the fact that I was running software that
> hadn't been updated in ten years.  But installing a windows port of NTP
> didn't fix things.
>
> I then realised that my Linux machines weren't keeping time either.   They
> simply hadn't drifted as far, as Linux is better at keeping time.  The macs
> weren't either.
>
> To cut a long lot of investigations short, I determined that I couldn't
> sync time using ntpd on port 123.  The only way I could get time sync to
> work was to use ntpdate with an unprivileged port.
>
> I did some searching, and found a post (that I apparently didn't bookmark)
> that suggested that some sites block NTP traffic in order to prevent
> certain types of DOS attacks.  Users at such sites are expected to use NTP
> server(s) located within the network.
>
> Since I tried a range of servers in a range of locations with no luck, I
> wondered if Bezeqint were doing the same thing.
>
> I managed to find time.bezeqint.net but it doesn't seem to work either.
>
> I called Bezeqint and had some difficulty explaining my problem to them in
> English.  When I did finally manage to get someone who knew what NTP is,
> they thought it might be  a problem with the router.  While this is
> possible, we got the router almost two months before the problem started.
>
> I expect I might get a similar answer if I call them back again, and if I
> do call Bezeq about it, I expect them to blame Bezeqint and so-on.
>
> Since nothing has changed in the last two weeks, I thought I might do
> better by asking here.
>
> So I'm wondering:
>
> 1.  Is anyone else having this problem?
>
> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>
> 3.  Any other ideas I've not thought of?
>
>
I've had a similar problem on my laptop and I solved it by running "ntpdate
-u" (Where "-u" tells it to use the unprivileged port which is also used by
the "-d" flag which worked) instead of a regular "ntpdate". I'm telling it
to inform everybody.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish


------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Sun May  4 14:11:47 2014
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 14:11:47 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your responses.

On Fri, 2 May 2014, Shlomi Fish wrote:

> I've had a similar problem on my laptop and I solved it by running "ntpdate
> -u" (Where "-u" tells it to use the unprivileged port which is also used by
> the "-d" flag which worked) instead of a regular "ntpdate". I'm telling it
> to inform everybody.

This is what I've been doing, but it's not really a substitute for 
something that should be working, and was until 4 weeks ago.

On Thu, 1 May 2014, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

> Have you tried il.pool.ntp.org ?

Yes.  There's only one server on it, which does appear to be working.

# ntpdate -q 0.il.pool.ntp.org
server 212.199.182.150, stratum 2, offset -1.246416, delay 0.03937
  4 May 12:55:52 ntpdate[12996]: step time server 212.199.182.150 offset -1.246416 sec

I'm surprised that ntp.iix.net.il isn't in the pool.

On Fri, 2 May 2014, Baruch Siach wrote:

> ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).

good to know.  At least this tells me it's not an ISP-wide issue.

On Fri, 2 May 2014, Amos Shapira wrote:

> 1. If you are running ntp daemons on your linux machines then use ntpq to
> query what it thinks it synchs with and its synch status.

I've done this.

# ntpq -p
      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
  Israel-IX.iix.n 192.115.209.50   2 u 1415   64    0    0.000    0.000   0.000

Interestingly, an check earlier in the day suggests it did get through 
once.

# ntpq -p
      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
  Israel-IX.iix.n 192.115.209.50   2 u  188   64    4   14.213  -153.40   0.004

Here's what the iMac shows:

$ ntpq -p
      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
  time.euro.apple .XFAC.          16 u    -  68m    0    0.000    0.000   0.000

> 2. Use traceroute with UDP port 123 to see whether you manage to reach the
> server you pick.

Ah!  This is what I wanted.

The manpage for traceroute is a bit confusing to me, but I tried this 
command which I think should tell me what I want to know:

# traceroute -p 123 ntp.iix.net.il
traceroute to ntp.iix.net.il (192.114.62.250), 30 hops max, 60 byte 
packets
  1  router.home (192.168.2.1)  1.988 ms  1.690 ms  1.534 ms
  2  bzq-109-64-64-1.red.bezeqint.net (109.64.64.1)  14.809 ms  14.740 ms  14.603 ms
  3  bzq-179-14-70.static.bezeqint.net (212.179.14.70)  14.594 ms  14.488 ms  14.607 ms
  4  bzq-25-77-6.static.bezeqint.net (212.25.77.6)  18.304 ms  18.147 ms  17.891 ms
  5  bzq-219-189-102.cablep.bezeqint.net (62.219.189.102)  15.135 ms  15.056 ms  14.916 ms
  6  * * *
  7  * * *
  8  * * *

I tried from an external server that is able to sync and reached the 
requested host.  So this would indicate that Bezeqint is blocking it.

On Fri, 2 May 2014, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:

> I've never had trouble with NTP... my guess is your ISP is blocking or
> interfering, get a level 2 or better rep. they should be able to unblock it
> if you make enough noise...

I think you're right.  We're paying them enough for service.

Thanks,
Geoff.



From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Sun May  4 14:26:57 2014
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 14:26:57 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
Message-ID: <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>

On 5/4/2014 2:11 PM, Geoff Shang wrote:

Joining this late, but does anyone know if there is an NTP device driver 
for an android phone? You can get a new Android 4 phone for 500 NIS, and 
used ones range in price from that to nothing (especially ones with 
cracked screens).

TIA.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Sun May  4 17:17:33 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 17:17:33 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>

You mean you want to use the Android phone as an ntp server?

For ntp client, there is clocksync:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.ClockSync

It requires root in order to sung the clock for less than 30 seconds.
On 4 May 2014 14:27, "geoffrey mendelson" <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 5/4/2014 2:11 PM, Geoff Shang wrote:
>
> Joining this late, but does anyone know if there is an NTP device driver
> for an android phone? You can get a new Android 4 phone for 500 NIS, and
> used ones range in price from that to nothing (especially ones with cracked
> screens).
>
> TIA.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Sun May  4 18:44:27 2014
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 18:44:27 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>	<CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>	<53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>

On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
> You mean you want to use the Android phone as an ntp server?
>
>

Yes. It has GPS hardware, runs linux and has wifi. Should be enough to 
make your own GPS derived stratum 1 server.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Mon May  5 07:41:31 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 07:41:31 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Umm. Nice idea. Perhaps this? http://time-server.android.informer.com/



On 4 May 2014 18:44, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>>
>> You mean you want to use the Android phone as an ntp server?
>>
>>
>>
> Yes. It has GPS hardware, runs linux and has wifi. Should be enough to
> make your own GPS derived stratum 1 server.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Mon May  5 08:06:47 2014
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 08:06:47 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>

On 5/5/2014 7:41 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
> Umm. Nice idea. Perhaps this? http://time-server.android.informer.com/
>
>
Thanks, I saw that and asked them if it will use sync to the GPS in the 
phone as a source. I'm waiting for an answer.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Mon May  5 08:13:52 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 08:13:52 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>

Please update here with the respons.


On 5 May 2014 08:06, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/5/2014 7:41 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> Umm. Nice idea. Perhaps this? http://time-server.android.informer.com/
>>
>>
>>  Thanks, I saw that and asked them if it will use sync to the GPS in the
> phone as a source. I'm waiting for an answer.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Wed May  7 07:27:30 2014
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2014 07:27:30 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>

On 5/5/2014 8:13 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
> Please update here with the respons.
>
It does not.

This is in reference to an NTP server Android App being able to access 
the GPS hardware for time sync. Since most (all?) Android phones have 
GPS chips and Wifi, run Linux, etc, it would be a cheap way to get a 
stratum 1 time server without spending a lot of money.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu May  8 10:49:32 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 17:49:32 +1000
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to get a
good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing does.
What does it do if not that?

It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?


On 7 May 2014 14:27, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/5/2014 8:13 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> Please update here with the respons.
>>
>>  It does not.
>
> This is in reference to an NTP server Android App being able to access the
> GPS hardware for time sync. Since most (all?) Android phones have GPS chips
> and Wifi, run Linux, etc, it would be a cheap way to get a stratum 1 time
> server without spending a lot of money.
>
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Thu May  8 10:56:24 2014
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 10:56:24 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>

On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
> Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to 
> get a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server 
> thing does. What does it do if not that?

The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which 
syncs to other NTP servers.
>
> It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?
>

My opinion too.

I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu May  8 14:43:31 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 14:43:31 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=JiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>

I posted a question in
http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/68996/using-android-gps-as-ntp-refclock


On 8 May 2014 10:56, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to get
>> a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing does.
>> What does it do if not that?
>>
>
> The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which
> syncs to other NTP servers.
>
>
>> It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?
>>
>>
> My opinion too.
>
> I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)
>
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Thu May  8 15:20:21 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 15:20:21 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=JiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=JiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>

One possible explanation may be that due to the very hard time cellphones
have to get and maintain GPS locks (which is the reason we have
technologies like AGPS) makes it impractical....


2014-05-08 14:43 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:

> I posted a question in
> http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/68996/using-android-gps-as-ntp-refclock
>
>
> On 8 May 2014 10:56, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to
>>> get a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing
>>> does. What does it do if not that?
>>>
>>
>> The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which
>> syncs to other NTP servers.
>>
>>
>>> It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?
>>>
>>>
>> My opinion too.
>>
>> I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)
>>
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
>> Jerusalem Israel.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>  [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu May  8 15:39:46 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 15:39:46 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=JiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Doesn't make sense to me:

1. The NTP server only needs the time signal, not the location (which
requires 4 satellites to be accurate), so even a signal from a single
satellite should be sufficient.
2. "getting a signal lock" is mostly a matter of having an up to date
satellite position almanac and recent location (within hundreds of
kilometers) in order to find the 4 required satellites. Finding the first
satellite is usually very quick.
3. Once the phone knows where it is, it's capable of keeping track of a car
moving at over 100 km/h for hours in order to update Google Maps and
friends. So the "keeping up" part is a solved problem, even if it was an
issue for the context of this thread.

Besides - the information should be there (the accurate time is a crucial
part of the positioning process). The main question from where I stand now
is how does Android provide access to the information (which API and was it
added to the multitude of reference clocks that the standard NTP software
comes with).

--Amos



On 8 May 2014 15:20, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:

> One possible explanation may be that due to the very hard time cellphones
> have to get and maintain GPS locks (which is the reason we have
> technologies like AGPS) makes it impractical....
>
>
> 2014-05-08 14:43 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>
>>  I posted a question in
>> http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/68996/using-android-gps-as-ntp-refclock
>>
>>
>> On 8 May 2014 10:56, geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to
>>>> get a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing
>>>> does. What does it do if not that?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which
>>> syncs to other NTP servers.
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> My opinion too.
>>>
>>> I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Geoff.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
>>> Jerusalem Israel.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From ehud at unix.mvs.co.il  Thu May  8 15:56:05 2014
From: ehud at unix.mvs.co.il (Ehud Karni)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 15:56:05 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 (message from Amos Shapira on Thu, 8 May 2014 15:39:46 +0300)
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=3D_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=3DJiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>

Hi All,

There are applications to update the time by GPS - e.g. Smart Time Sync
It needs root access. It does sync periodically (at most twice an hour).
Such an application together with NTP server application (there are a few)
makes a stratum 1 time server.

Ehud.

--
 Ehud Karni           Tel: +972-3-7966-561  /"\
 Mivtach - Simon      Fax: +972-3-7976-561  \ /  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
 Insurance agencies   (USA) voice mail and   X   Against   HTML   Mail
 http://www.mvs.co.il  FAX:  1-815-5509341  / \
 GnuPG: 98EA398D <http://www.keyserver.net/>    Better Safe Than Sorry


From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Thu May  8 15:57:36 2014
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 15:57:36 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=JiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536B7F40.9060805@gmail.com>

On 5/8/2014 3:39 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:
> Doesn't make sense to me:
>
> 1. The NTP server only needs the time signal, not the location (which 
> requires 4 satellites to be accurate), so even a signal from a single 
> satellite should be sufficient.
> 2. "getting a signal lock" is mostly a matter of having an up to date 
> satellite position almanac and recent location (within hundreds of 
> kilometers) in order to find the 4 required satellites. Finding the 
> first satellite is usually very quick.
> 3. Once the phone knows where it is, it's capable of keeping track of 
> a car moving at over 100 km/h for hours in order to update Google Maps 
> and friends. So the "keeping up" part is a solved problem, even if it 
> was an issue for the context of this thread.
>
> Besides - the information should be there (the accurate time is a 
> crucial part of the positioning process). The main question from where 
> I stand now is how does Android provide access to the information 
> (which API and was it added to the multitude of reference clocks that 
> the standard NTP software comes with).
>

Don't forget that most of the people using this (if not all), just want 
to timesync a LAN, and can stick said cellphone up against a window and 
leave it there.


Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu May  8 16:25:44 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 16:25:44 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=3D_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=3DJiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WU3xdNOocZd-MB8ZrOyWP3-8iwAUC0_fZmDC=10ReTNEA@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Smart Time Sync + ntp server.
Now the perfectionist in me would still like to combine what it does with
an NTP daemon reference clock :)
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From linux-il at orib.net  Fri May  9 10:15:50 2014
From: linux-il at orib.net (Ori Berger)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 10:15:50 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WU3xdNOocZd-MB8ZrOyWP3-8iwAUC0_fZmDC=10ReTNEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=3D_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=3DJiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>
 <CAF9n_WU3xdNOocZd-MB8ZrOyWP3-8iwAUC0_fZmDC=10ReTNEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536C80A6.2020807@orib.net>

On 05/08/2014 04:25 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:
> +1 for Smart Time Sync + ntp server.
> Now the perfectionist in me would still like to combine what it does
> with an NTP daemon reference clock :)

Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this 
use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it 
now for $35 in Amazon 
<http://www.amazon.com/GlobalSat-BU-353-S4-USB-Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> 
). Supported natively by ntpd 
<http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, does 
not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you 
with :)


From shlomif at gmail.com  Fri May  9 10:57:30 2014
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 10:57:30 +0300
Subject: Tel Aviv Perl Mongers Meeting on 28 May 2014: "Vim for Perl
 Developers" by Ynon Perek
Message-ID: <CANy4znUa9jvUQ6ZqoX3qXGMyN-RYNFxWMVzLj+HTmO=w203Eow@mail.gmail.com>

The Tel Aviv Perl Mongers ( http://telaviv.pm.org/ ) will hold their next
meeting on Wednesday, 28 May 2014, starting at 18:30 in the evening in
Shenkar College, room 247 in the old building (Entrance from Anna Frank
St.) in
Ramat Gan. Finding the room is somewhat difficult, and, in order to get to
it,
one should climb to the second floor, find a flight of stairs that leads to
a
door, climb it and enter the door and the room is there.

On the Agenda:

18:30 - 19:00 : Get Together.

19:00 - 20:00 : Ynon Perek - ?The Vim Text Editor for Perl Developers?

Editing text takes a lot of time. By using and customising a good text
editor,
we can get more work done in less time. In this talk I?m going to take vim
and
show how a perl developer can get a lot more productive by using it. We?ll
start with a plain out-of-the-box vim installation and add plugins and
customisations to create a perl oriented workflow.

20:00 - ... : after-party in a caf? or a restaurant.

Attendance is free-of-charge and everyone is welcome.

If you have any questions or requests, do not hesitate to contact the
organiser,
Shlomi Fish, at any of the ways given here -
http://www.shlomifish.org/me/contact-me/ .

Regards,

    Shlomi Fish

-------------------------------------------------------

????? ???? ??? ?????? ( http://telaviv.pm.org/ ) ????? ?? ?????? ???? ????
???? ?????, ?-28 ???? 2014, ??? ?-18:30 ???? ?????? ????, ??? 247 (??????
???? ????? ??? ????) ???? ??. ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????
???
?? ????? ????? ?????, ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????, ????? ???? ???????
,?????? ????, ??? ??????? ?????? ????.

?? ????:

18:30 - 19:00 : ??????? ????? ?????.

19:00 - 20:00 : ???? ??? - ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????.

????? ?????? ???, ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???. ?????
?????
???? ???, ?? ????? ????? ???, ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??????. ?????? ?? ???
????? ????? ????? ???, ????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????
??????
???? ??? ????? ??????. ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ???, ????? ??? ??????
????
?????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????.

20:00 - ? : ??? ???? ??? ?? ?????.

??????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ????.

?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????, ?? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??????, ????? ???, ??????
????? ????? ????? ???:
http://www.shlomifish.org/me/contact-me/ .

?????,

    ????? ???


-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Fri May  9 11:01:42 2014
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 11:01:42 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <536C80A6.2020807@orib.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=3D_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=3DJiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>
 <CAF9n_WU3xdNOocZd-MB8ZrOyWP3-8iwAUC0_fZmDC=10ReTNEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536C80A6.2020807@orib.net>
Message-ID: <536C8B66.1010701@gmail.com>


> Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for 
> this use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can 
> see it now for $35 in Amazon 
> <http://www.amazon.com/GlobalSat-BU-353-S4-USB-Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> 
> ). Supported natively by ntpd 
> <http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, 
> does not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy 
> on you with :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

They only ship to the  US.

Since the software we found runs on Android 2.1 up, it should be pretty 
easy to find a used phone for less than that or free.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Fri May  9 13:14:42 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 13:14:42 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <536C80A6.2020807@orib.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=3D_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=3DJiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>
 <CAF9n_WU3xdNOocZd-MB8ZrOyWP3-8iwAUC0_fZmDC=10ReTNEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536C80A6.2020807@orib.net>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WWqx0WoBdu2nZCAChLU+_+0jtXXd4+2y66RUEOJC-uAdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Umm, thanks. I might try this connected to the cubox-i I plan to buy.
On 9 May 2014 17:16, "Ori Berger" <linux-il at orib.net> wrote:

> On 05/08/2014 04:25 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> +1 for Smart Time Sync + ntp server.
>> Now the perfectionist in me would still like to combine what it does
>> with an NTP daemon reference clock :)
>>
>
> Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this
> use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it now
> for $35 in Amazon <http://www.amazon.com/GlobalSat-BU-353-S4-USB-
> Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> ). Supported natively by ntpd <
> http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, does
> not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you
> with :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Fri May  9 13:21:52 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 13:21:52 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <536C8B66.1010701@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=3D_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=3DJiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>
 <CAF9n_WU3xdNOocZd-MB8ZrOyWP3-8iwAUC0_fZmDC=10ReTNEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536C80A6.2020807@orib.net> <536C8B66.1010701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WU3OMYsrydvKshLTbR6K5fBEnDNT-VFznaBRqp7QwRSNg@mail.gmail.com>

Which software? Smart Tome Sync?
On 9 May 2014 18:02, "geoffrey mendelson" <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>  Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this
>> use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it now
>> for $35 in Amazon <http://www.amazon.com/GlobalSat-BU-353-S4-USB-
>> Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> ). Supported natively by ntpd <
>> http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, does
>> not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you
>> with :)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
> They only ship to the  US.
>
> Since the software we found runs on Android 2.1 up, it should be pretty
> easy to find a used phone for less than that or free.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Fri May  9 18:11:51 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 18:11:51 +0300
Subject: NTP
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WU3OMYsrydvKshLTbR6K5fBEnDNT-VFznaBRqp7QwRSNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405012111470.13646@voldemort.home>
 <CANy4znURDtfn7_zp_E+h8-L5udNkUTwoBWvAT-uN55atGpvh6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405041320480.13646@voldemort.home>
 <53662401.3000900@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVc7upa-TtBgu0LAb9ePK4Vy+z=3D_V-phoFPGX2U5gpC8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5366605B.6040302@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUbosqbpy6kBF+4rYm34XcbUVysx2Vgx_Euvz24kn7FnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53671C67.5040203@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXaOJApLXTY_NPg2RBHMXiQ1mb4f7Jhbda_W5XC3BoChg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5369B632.9040506@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WVcOKm1SN8bNqzZ9uiZNChyMdeN_7Weh1Ar4Gn2L9j0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536B38A8.8060001@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WUufOSiPnUJGVkgeVspkAAhyqTXAEGyMv=3DJiJSQx+60xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOfOv20E4ZmHmRDPMxr4GuZY1dAzcJrxPkEM3ePgcNF3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWkm1jejN7LE_q2ML_aSWXnsKoELaM4_KbdYHM-+qESQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201405081256.s48Cu5aK020056@unix.mvs.co.il>
 <CAF9n_WU3xdNOocZd-MB8ZrOyWP3-8iwAUC0_fZmDC=10ReTNEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <536C80A6.2020807@orib.net> <536C8B66.1010701@gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WU3OMYsrydvKshLTbR6K5fBEnDNT-VFznaBRqp7QwRSNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BOOwTMCKWH7mS5aO5VWON9k4S=3Rr5Q=L8Kgign1Ua56g@mail.gmail.com>

eBay - less then 150 NIS and free int. shipping

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=GlobalSat+BU-353-S4+USB


??? ????,
Eliyahu - ?????


2014-05-09 13:21 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:

> Which software? Smart Tome Sync?
> On 9 May 2014 18:02, "geoffrey mendelson" <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>  Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this
>>> use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it now
>>> for $35 in Amazon <http://www.amazon.com/GlobalSat-BU-353-S4-USB-
>>> Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> ). Supported natively by ntpd <
>>> http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, does
>>> not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you
>>> with :)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>
>> They only ship to the  US.
>>
>> Since the software we found runs on Android 2.1 up, it should be pretty
>> easy to find a used phone for less than that or free.
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
>> Jerusalem Israel.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From elazarl at gmail.com  Sat May 10 22:04:03 2014
From: elazarl at gmail.com (Elazar Leibovich)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 22:04:03 +0300
Subject: New Freecell Solver gcc-4.5.0 vs. LLVM+clang Benchmark
In-Reply-To: <20110202081054.GB14439@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
References: <201007172206.31543.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
 <201007181137.17822.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
 <AANLkTimCDdPGRBKdQJ-gFWjWhZ5Qt9YO7PF4WbxqTR49@mail.gmail.com>
 <201007181435.16316.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
 <AANLkTikYe4R31YFF1WmXxqoeB2bP97FdEX4nsDxTjF3U@mail.gmail.com>
 <20100719091845.GA10192@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
 <AANLkTimG2KydD=U0=fk4xUQ=poDMa9=eXPNxcGKjPAz3@mail.gmail.com>
 <20110201100917.GA21300@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
 <AANLkTimYFUw_B7JJeT+=2JWgVEGAqs0h8oXTkuCqPJ3C@mail.gmail.com>
 <20110201121612.GO22799@pear.tzafrir.org.il>
 <20110202081054.GB14439@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
Message-ID: <CAHNTFmJYit3_kpAd7dGC_pQcAtOw=wOjSN19ZzTZF3kzn_DNTA@mail.gmail.com>

Reviving an old thread, here's a research, claiming link order and memory
layout can have a big effect on performance. The tool randomizes them, to
give a meaningful comparison between two programs.

A nugget from the slides, the difference between -O2 and -O3 on some LLVM
benchmarks was found to be a random statistical noise.

(no need to reread the old thread, it's loosely related)

http://plasma.cs.umass.edu/emery/stabilizer


On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Nadav Har'El <nyh at math.technion.ac.il>wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 01, 2011, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: New Freecell Solver
> gcc-4.5.0 vs. LLVM+clang Benchmark":
> > On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 12:49:00PM +0200, Elazar Leibovich wrote:
> >
> > > The program they tested[1] is strictly CPU bound. BTW, standard
> deviation
> > > wouldn't work as well, but it shows (I think) that there's  no such
> think as
> > > "ideal minimal runtime".
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > static int i = 0, j = 0, k = 0;
> > > int main() {
> > > int g = 0, inc = 1;
> > > for (; g<65536; g++) {
> > >   i += inc;
> > >   j += inc;
> > >   k += inc;
> > > }
> > > return 0;
> > > }
> > >
> > > [2] http://www-plan.cs.colorado.edu/diwan/asplos09.pdf
> >
> > That program is CPU-bound, but the time it runs is short enough for the
> > size of the environment to actually mean something.
>
> Right, I think this example demonstrates Oleg's point, that there's usually
> no in-determinism, but rather just ignorance of what else is going on
> outside
> your program.
>
> In this case, this is a program that finishes ridiculously fast - on my
> low-end computer, it finishes in 0.3 milliseconds (!). But when you run
> this program, things like fork, disk read, system calls, dynamic linking,
> and a whole lot of other crap add much more than 0.3 milliseconds of
> overhead,
> and much of that other crap is undeterministic - e.g., if the executable
> needs to be read from disk, and something else is using the disk, you
> notice
> a slowdown.
>
> But still - my original point was that if you measure this program's
> runtime
> several times, the minimum, not the average, is often more representative
> of
> the "true" runtime (in this case 0.3 milliseconds). I measured this program
> with "time", and one time got 30 milliseconds, several times got 2
> milliseconds,
> and one time got 1 millisecond. Yes, that minimum of 1 millisecond is
> closer
> to the performance of the program than the average of 1, 2 and 30.
>
> Anyway, you piqued my curiousity, and I'll read that ASPLOS paper :-)
>
> --
> Nadav Har'El                        |   Wednesday, Feb  2 2011, 28 Shevat
> 5771
> nyh at math.technion.ac.il
> |-----------------------------------------
> Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |I saw a book titled "Die Microsoft
> http://nadav.harel.org.il           |Windows". Turns out it was in
> German...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From shachar at shemesh.biz  Sat May 10 22:22:48 2014
From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 22:22:48 +0300
Subject: New Freecell Solver gcc-4.5.0 vs. LLVM+clang Benchmark
In-Reply-To: <CAHNTFmJYit3_kpAd7dGC_pQcAtOw=wOjSN19ZzTZF3kzn_DNTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201007172206.31543.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
 <201007181137.17822.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
 <AANLkTimCDdPGRBKdQJ-gFWjWhZ5Qt9YO7PF4WbxqTR49@mail.gmail.com>
 <201007181435.16316.shlomif@iglu.org.il>
 <AANLkTikYe4R31YFF1WmXxqoeB2bP97FdEX4nsDxTjF3U@mail.gmail.com>
 <20100719091845.GA10192@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
 <AANLkTimG2KydD=U0=fk4xUQ=poDMa9=eXPNxcGKjPAz3@mail.gmail.com>
 <20110201100917.GA21300@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
 <AANLkTimYFUw_B7JJeT+=2JWgVEGAqs0h8oXTkuCqPJ3C@mail.gmail.com>
 <20110201121612.GO22799@pear.tzafrir.org.il>
 <20110202081054.GB14439@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
 <CAHNTFmJYit3_kpAd7dGC_pQcAtOw=wOjSN19ZzTZF3kzn_DNTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536E7C88.7050306@shemesh.biz>

On 10/05/14 22:04, Elazar Leibovich wrote:
> (no need to reread the old thread, it's loosely related)
I'm interested to know who even has the old thread....

Actually, I do. The message you replied to is from just a little over 3
years and 3 months ago. I think, under the circumstances, opening a new
thread would have been forgiven....

Shachar
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 12 11:46:43 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:46:43 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
Message-ID: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it

doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad sectors.

is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?


thanks
erez.
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Mon May 12 11:51:05 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 18:51:05 +1000
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WXCDojHcLTHGj7tPLdRY8Mkqo+wk_Xk=LyC=ccaYFb3Jw@mail.gmail.com>

How about ddrescue (the GNU one I think, there are multiple implementations
with same name) into an image file then try to fix the fs around the bad
sectors?


On 12 May 2014 18:46, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
>
> doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad sectors.
>
> is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?
>
>
> thanks
> erez.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 12 11:53:13 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:53:13 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WXCDojHcLTHGj7tPLdRY8Mkqo+wk_Xk=LyC=ccaYFb3Jw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXCDojHcLTHGj7tPLdRY8Mkqo+wk_Xk=LyC=ccaYFb3Jw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wkiMX---SADTzZ_1_F2aUh-H-+KJ-pAYFQKFN5KxYhsCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>wrote:

> How about ddrescue (the GNU one I think, there are multiple
> implementations with same name) into an image file then try to fix the fs
> around the bad sectors?
>
> ubifs already handles the bad sectors, and i do not want to mess with it.

>
> On 12 May 2014 18:46, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi
>>
>> i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
>>
>> doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad sectors.
>>
>> is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?
>>
>>
>> thanks
>> erez.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>  [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>
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From baruch at tkos.co.il  Mon May 12 12:05:05 2014
From: baruch at tkos.co.il (Baruch Siach)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 12:05:05 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140512090505.GK4096@tarshish>

Hi Erez,

On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:46:43AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
> 
> doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad sectors.

dd is not the way to go with raw NAND flash access; it's not aware of bad 
blocks.

> is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?

You may be able get a working system using nanddump/nandwrite (see 
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.mtd/45792/focus=46024, but read 
the whole thread). Generally, tough, this is not what you want to do with 
UBI/UBIFS. You should use ubiformat on the target, and copy the content with 
tar. See http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_why_ubiformat.

baruch

-- 
     http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
   - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 12 12:14:14 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 12:14:14 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <20140512090505.GK4096@tarshish>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512090505.GK4096@tarshish>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wkmjhX=61poni=eLU+0gOyO_CqUvRWc2mBxsKGwnZvJOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:

> Hi Erez,
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:46:43AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
> >
> > doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad sectors.
>
> dd is not the way to go with raw NAND flash access; it's not aware of bad
> blocks.
>
> > is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?
>
> You may be able get a working system using nanddump/nandwrite (see
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.mtd/45792/focus=46024, but
> read
> the whole thread). Generally, tough, this is not what you want to do with
> UBI/UBIFS. You should use ubiformat on the target, and copy the content
> with
> tar. See http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_why_ubiformat
> .
>
will tar preserve uid/gid hard links, special files, /dev extended attr etc
?

>
> baruch
>
> --
>      http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open
> Systems
> =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>    - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
>
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From baruch at tkos.co.il  Mon May 12 12:28:29 2014
From: baruch at tkos.co.il (Baruch Siach)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 12:28:29 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wkmjhX=61poni=eLU+0gOyO_CqUvRWc2mBxsKGwnZvJOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512090505.GK4096@tarshish>
 <CAMUp3wkmjhX=61poni=eLU+0gOyO_CqUvRWc2mBxsKGwnZvJOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140512092829.GL4096@tarshish>

Hi Erez,

On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:14:14PM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:46:43AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > > i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
> > >
> > > doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad sectors.
> >
> > dd is not the way to go with raw NAND flash access; it's not aware of bad
> > blocks.
> >
> > > is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?
> >
> > You may be able get a working system using nanddump/nandwrite (see
> > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.mtd/45792/focus=46024, but
> > read
> > the whole thread). Generally, tough, this is not what you want to do with
> > UBI/UBIFS. You should use ubiformat on the target, and copy the content
> > with
> > tar. See http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_why_ubiformat
>
> will tar preserve uid/gid hard links, special files, /dev

Yes, by default.

> extended attr etc ?

Yes. Use --xattrs.

baruch

-- 
     http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
   - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 12 14:14:34 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 14:14:34 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <20140512092829.GL4096@tarshish>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512090505.GK4096@tarshish>
 <CAMUp3wkmjhX=61poni=eLU+0gOyO_CqUvRWc2mBxsKGwnZvJOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512092829.GL4096@tarshish>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wmowVL7vkiAgqBPqGPiC4d2jFseUGa__JbpgaNhShBBEg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:

> Hi Erez,
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:14:14PM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il>
> wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:46:43AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > > > i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
> > > >
> > > > doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad
> sectors.
> > >
> > > dd is not the way to go with raw NAND flash access; it's not aware of
> bad
> > > blocks.
> > >
> > > > is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?
> > >
> > > You may be able get a working system using nanddump/nandwrite (see
> > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.mtd/45792/focus=46024, but
> > > read
> > > the whole thread). Generally, tough, this is not what you want to do
> with
> > > UBI/UBIFS. You should use ubiformat on the target, and copy the content
> > > with
> > > tar. See
> http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_why_ubiformat
> >
> > will tar preserve uid/gid hard links, special files, /dev
>
> Yes, by default.
>
> > extended attr etc ?
>
> Yes. Use --xattrs.
>
> baruch
>

thanks, i'll try that.

can I ubiformat + untar from u-boot ?

>
> --
>      http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open
> Systems
> =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>    - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
>
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From baruch at tkos.co.il  Mon May 12 14:53:57 2014
From: baruch at tkos.co.il (Baruch Siach)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 14:53:57 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wmowVL7vkiAgqBPqGPiC4d2jFseUGa__JbpgaNhShBBEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512090505.GK4096@tarshish>
 <CAMUp3wkmjhX=61poni=eLU+0gOyO_CqUvRWc2mBxsKGwnZvJOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512092829.GL4096@tarshish>
 <CAMUp3wmowVL7vkiAgqBPqGPiC4d2jFseUGa__JbpgaNhShBBEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140512115357.GP4096@tarshish>

Hi Erez,

On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 02:14:34PM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:14:14PM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il>
> > wrote:
> > > > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:46:43AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > > > > i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
> > > > >
> > > > > doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad
> > sectors.
> > > >
> > > > dd is not the way to go with raw NAND flash access; it's not aware of
> > bad
> > > > blocks.
> > > >
> > > > > is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?
> > > >
> > > > You may be able get a working system using nanddump/nandwrite (see
> > > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.mtd/45792/focus=46024, but
> > > > read
> > > > the whole thread). Generally, tough, this is not what you want to do
> > with
> > > > UBI/UBIFS. You should use ubiformat on the target, and copy the content
> > > > with
> > > > tar. See
> > http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_why_ubiformat
> > >
> > > will tar preserve uid/gid hard links, special files, /dev
> >
> > Yes, by default.
> >
> > > extended attr etc ?
> >
> > Yes. Use --xattrs.
> >
> > baruch
> 
> thanks, i'll try that.
> 
> can I ubiformat + untar from u-boot ?

I don't see support for either in mainline U-Boot. Barebox supports ubiformat 
but not tar extraction.

Your best option is to boot into RAM using a kernel combined with a minimal 
Busybox based initramfs, and extract you tar from there. Note tough that 
Busybox tar does not support extended attributes, so you must use GNU tar for 
this. Buildroot can generate a minimal initramfs image for you quite easily.

baruch

-- 
     http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
   - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -


From nyh at math.technion.ac.il  Mon May 12 14:53:00 2014
From: nyh at math.technion.ac.il (Nadav Har'El)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 14:53:00 +0300
Subject: Announce: OSv, a new open-source operating system for virtual
 machines
In-Reply-To: <20130916203658.GA7980@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
References: <20130916203658.GA7980@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>
Message-ID: <20140512115300.GA923@fermat.math.technion.ac.il>

On Mon, Sep 16, 2013, Nadav Har'El wrote about "Announce: OSv, a new open-source operating system for virtual machines":
> Hi, today we've made the first release of OSv, a new operating system for
> running applications on virtual machines.
> 
> OSv is free software, released under the BSD license, and you can find it in
> https://github.com/cloudius-systems/osv and http://www.osv.io.
> There is also a mailing list: osv-dev at googlegroups.com.

For those interested in meeting some of the OSv developers, shortly
hearing about it and trying it on their own laptop and their own
application, we are holding a meetup on Wednesday May 28th, 5:30pm,
in our office in Herzliyya:

http://www.meetup.com/OSv-Developer-Meetup/events/181683582/

It's a free meeting (of course), but we'll appreciate it if people RSVP
on the meetup.com site so we'll have an estimate on how many are coming.

See you,
Nadav.

> 
> These days, most applications running on virtual machines in the cloud run
> on top of Linux. We all love Linux, but as an all-encompassing operating
> system for everything from phones to supercomputers, Linux was never
> really designed for virtual machines; It is big and complex, and it
> offers features (such as multi-user and multi-process) which are today
> made redundant by the hypervisor and slow it down. Linux's APIs are many
> times set in stone by decades of legacy code.
> All these cost in application performance, and make it harder to innovate.
> 
> This is why we developed OSv, a new operating system designed to run
> a single application on a virtual machine. As it runs a single application
> there is no need for kernel-userspace isolation, reducing context switch
> costs and unnecessary copying. A design from scratch allowed us to
> experiment with new ideas like lock-free mutexes (solving the Lock-Holder
> Preemption problem that plagues operating systems on virtual machines),
> extremely fast context switches, Van Jacobson's network channels (see
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/vj/lca06vj.pdf), and more.
> Also, OSv is released under the more permissive BSD license (not GPL
> like Linux), is tiny compared to Linux, and takes less than one second
> to boot and start the user's application.
> 
> OSv can run ordinary Linux shared objects, such as, for example, an
> unmodified JVM (e.g., OpenJDK) executable, and of course on that you can
> run any application written in Java, JRuby , Clojure, or any other JVM
> language. Even at this early stage of OSv's development, OSv can already
> successfully run several interesting workloads such as Netperf, Memcached,
> Cassandra and SpecJVM - and usually match or even beat Linux's performance.
> 
> Another refreshing feature of OSv is that is written in C++.
> It's been 40 years since Unix was (re)written in C, and the time has
> come for something better.
> C++ is not about writing super-complex type hierarchies (as some people
> might have you believe). Rather, it allowed us to write shorter code
> with less boiler-plate repetition and less chances for bugs. It allowed
> us to more easily reuse quality code and data structures. And using
> newly standardized C++11 features, we were able to write safe concurrent
> code with standard language features instead of processor-specific
> hacks. And all of this with zero performance overheads - most of C++'s
> features, most notably templates, are compile-time features which result
> in no run-time overhead compared to C code.
> 
> OSv was developed by Cloudius Systems, a small Israeli startup led by
> Dor Laor and Avi Kivity (of KVM fame) but it is an open-source project -
> developed since its inception on github
> (https://github.com/cloudius-systems/osv), and released under the BSD
> license. We would like to take this opportunity to invite everyone to use
> OSv, and to help drive its development forward. OSv is a fantastic
> playground for kernel developers, and also for people involved in cloud
> development, devops, and so on. Tell us what your dream VM operating
> system will do, and maybe your dream will come true :-) Maybe you can even
> help us make that dream come true.
> 
> If you want to try OSv, check out the announcement and usage instructions
> on the OSv mailing list:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/osv-dev/enqdqN2A0as
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nadav Har'El                        |      Monday, Sep 16 2013, 13 Tishri 5774
> nyh at math.technion.ac.il             |-----------------------------------------
> Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |A computer once beat me at chess, but it
> http://nadav.harel.org.il           |was no match for me at kickboxing.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |       Monday, May 12 2014, 12 Iyyar 5774
nyh at math.technion.ac.il             |-----------------------------------------
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Politics, n: from Greek, "poly"=many,
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |"ticks"=blood sucking parasites.


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 12 15:07:22 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 15:07:22 +0300
Subject: ubi cloning
In-Reply-To: <20140512115357.GP4096@tarshish>
References: <CAMUp3w=doQZOWX-7XNEmsVQqSq0occF6R-z00vbVzgg2iDwN4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512090505.GK4096@tarshish>
 <CAMUp3wkmjhX=61poni=eLU+0gOyO_CqUvRWc2mBxsKGwnZvJOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512092829.GL4096@tarshish>
 <CAMUp3wmowVL7vkiAgqBPqGPiC4d2jFseUGa__JbpgaNhShBBEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140512115357.GP4096@tarshish>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3w=S0sCB23kexagY_KsaHN5pEh2U7-Z187ZDP1S+qkE6cQ@mail.gmail.com>

thanks for your help


On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:

> Hi Erez,
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 02:14:34PM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il>
> wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:14:14PM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > > > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:46:43AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > > > > > i need to clone a nand flash. which has ubifs on it
> > > > > >
> > > > > > doing 'dd' didn't work as the source and dest have different bad
> > > sectors.
> > > > >
> > > > > dd is not the way to go with raw NAND flash access; it's not aware
> of
> > > bad
> > > > > blocks.
> > > > >
> > > > > > is there an easy way to clone a ubifs nand-flash ?
> > > > >
> > > > > You may be able get a working system using nanddump/nandwrite (see
> > > > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.mtd/45792/focus=46024,
> but
> > > > > read
> > > > > the whole thread). Generally, tough, this is not what you want to
> do
> > > with
> > > > > UBI/UBIFS. You should use ubiformat on the target, and copy the
> content
> > > > > with
> > > > > tar. See
> > > http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_why_ubiformat
> > > >
> > > > will tar preserve uid/gid hard links, special files, /dev
> > >
> > > Yes, by default.
> > >
> > > > extended attr etc ?
> > >
> > > Yes. Use --xattrs.
> > >
> > > baruch
> >
> > thanks, i'll try that.
> >
> > can I ubiformat + untar from u-boot ?
>
> I don't see support for either in mainline U-Boot. Barebox supports
> ubiformat
> but not tar extraction.
>
> Your best option is to boot into RAM using a kernel combined with a minimal
> Busybox based initramfs, and extract you tar from there. Note tough that
> Busybox tar does not support extended attributes, so you must use GNU tar
> for
> this. Buildroot can generate a minimal initramfs image for you quite
> easily.
>
> baruch
>
> --
>      http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open
> Systems
> =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>    - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
>
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From eli at billauer.co.il  Thu May 15 13:25:01 2014
From: eli at billauer.co.il (Eli Billauer)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 13:25:01 +0300
Subject: Never call kfree() in a device driver again
Message-ID: <537495FD.80808@billauer.co.il>

Hi all,

Ah, I just wanted to tell you that I'll hold a talk about managed 
resource allocation in the Linux kernel, in Haifux on May 26th.

Abstract: http://www.haifux.org/lectures/323

Besides, there's currently no talk scheduled after that. So it's a good 
opportunity to get a slot as close as June 9th!

See you all,

    Eli

-- 
Web: http://www.billauer.co.il



From uri at speedy.net  Thu May 15 15:20:24 2014
From: uri at speedy.net (Uri Even-Chen)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 15:20:24 +0300
Subject: Upgrading Ubuntu from 12.04 to 14.04
Message-ID: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi people,

I work at my job with Ubuntu 12.04 and we run Django 1.4.12 locally with
Python 2.7.3 and PostgreSQL. We want to upgrade Django from 1.4 to 1.6 and
I also thought it would be a good idea to upgrade Python to 2.7.6 and maybe
even 3, so I tried to upgrade Ubuntu to 14.04. But after I completed the
upgrade, Django didn't work and I couldn't even run migrations (with
South). I had to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 and I lost all the files I had in
my home directory (because I chose not to keep Ubuntu 14.04) except some
files that I backed up. My questions are:

1. What do we need to do in order for Django to work with Ubuntu 14.04?
2. Why isn't it possible to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 after upgrading to 14.04
and still keep all the files in my home directory, while not keeping all
the other files (the operating system files)?

Thanks,
Uri Even-Chen
Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
E-mail: uri at speedy.net
Speedy Net: http://www.speedy.net/
Speedy Composer: http://www.speedycomposer.com/
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From ori at helicontech.co.il  Thu May 15 15:46:13 2014
From: ori at helicontech.co.il (Ori Idan)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 15:46:13 +0300
Subject: Upgrading Ubuntu from 12.04 to 14.04
In-Reply-To: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACyhTRFg_e+cqXCmkqn_52h-kGWqAgRwWnrHkyu7qepLDnjdUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net> wrote:

> Hi people,
>
> I work at my job with Ubuntu 12.04 and we run Django 1.4.12 locally with
> Python 2.7.3 and PostgreSQL. We want to upgrade Django from 1.4 to 1.6 and
> I also thought it would be a good idea to upgrade Python to 2.7.6 and maybe
> even 3, so I tried to upgrade Ubuntu to 14.04. But after I completed the
> upgrade, Django didn't work and I couldn't even run migrations (with
> South). I had to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 and I lost all the files I had in
> my home directory (because I chose not to keep Ubuntu 14.04) except some
> files that I backed up. My questions are:
>
> 1. What do we need to do in order for Django to work with Ubuntu 14.04?
> 2. Why isn't it possible to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 after upgrading to
> 14.04 and still keep all the files in my home directory, while not keeping
> all the other files (the operating system files)?
>
Why do you think it is not possible?  I do it all the time.
I  keep my home directory in a separate partition so when I upgrade (or
downgrade) the OS the home directory stays the same.

-- 
Ori Idan
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From uri at speedy.net  Thu May 15 16:00:00 2014
From: uri at speedy.net (Uri Even-Chen)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:00:00 +0300
Subject: Upgrading Ubuntu from 12.04 to 14.04
In-Reply-To: <CACyhTRFg_e+cqXCmkqn_52h-kGWqAgRwWnrHkyu7qepLDnjdUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACyhTRFg_e+cqXCmkqn_52h-kGWqAgRwWnrHkyu7qepLDnjdUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMQ2MsGw7nk20ZtcUi8oMXPNtOPf8v3bOxo_z51ntNtH55Q77Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, it's a good idea. At work my home directory is not in a separate
partition so it's not kept if I reinstall Ubuntu. Do you know how I can
create a partition and move it to a separate partition?

Uri Even-Chen
Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
E-mail: uri at speedy.net
Speedy Net: http://www.speedy.net/
Speedy Composer: http://www.speedycomposer.com/



On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Ori Idan <ori at helicontech.co.il> wrote:

>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi people,
>>
>> I work at my job with Ubuntu 12.04 and we run Django 1.4.12 locally with
>> Python 2.7.3 and PostgreSQL. We want to upgrade Django from 1.4 to 1.6 and
>> I also thought it would be a good idea to upgrade Python to 2.7.6 and maybe
>> even 3, so I tried to upgrade Ubuntu to 14.04. But after I completed the
>> upgrade, Django didn't work and I couldn't even run migrations (with
>> South). I had to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 and I lost all the files I had in
>> my home directory (because I chose not to keep Ubuntu 14.04) except some
>> files that I backed up. My questions are:
>>
>> 1. What do we need to do in order for Django to work with Ubuntu 14.04?
>> 2. Why isn't it possible to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 after upgrading to
>> 14.04 and still keep all the files in my home directory, while not keeping
>> all the other files (the operating system files)?
>>
> Why do you think it is not possible?  I do it all the time.
> I  keep my home directory in a separate partition so when I upgrade (or
> downgrade) the OS the home directory stays the same.
>
> --
> Ori Idan
>
>
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From efraim.flashner at gmail.com  Thu May 15 16:27:09 2014
From: efraim.flashner at gmail.com (Efraim Flashner)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:27:09 +0300
Subject: Upgrading Ubuntu from 12.04 to 14.04
In-Reply-To: <CAMQ2MsGw7nk20ZtcUi8oMXPNtOPf8v3bOxo_z51ntNtH55Q77Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACyhTRFg_e+cqXCmkqn_52h-kGWqAgRwWnrHkyu7qepLDnjdUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMQ2MsGw7nk20ZtcUi8oMXPNtOPf8v3bOxo_z51ntNtH55Q77Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140515162709.1cf39189@x120e>

I don't believe it is possible for a user to create a partition.  Of
course that is more of a brain-fart on my part, because it's not so
useful to your situation.  Gparted should be able to resize unmounted
ext3/4 partitions, and from there you can create a new partition, copy
your /home directory there and edit /etc/fstab to point to the new
partition.

I found these release notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes, but it looks rather short, and doesn't mention django.  Fortunately django has its own release notes here: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.6/releases/ which should help with the upgrade.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, I've never used django.

-Efraim


On Thu, 15 May 2014 16:00:00 +0300
Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net> wrote:

> Thank you, it's a good idea. At work my home directory is not in a
> separate partition so it's not kept if I reinstall Ubuntu. Do you
> know how I can create a partition and move it to a separate partition?
> 
> Uri Even-Chen
> Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
> E-mail: uri at speedy.net
> Speedy Net: http://www.speedy.net/
> Speedy Composer: http://www.speedycomposer.com/
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Ori Idan <ori at helicontech.co.il>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi people,
> >>
> >> I work at my job with Ubuntu 12.04 and we run Django 1.4.12
> >> locally with Python 2.7.3 and PostgreSQL. We want to upgrade
> >> Django from 1.4 to 1.6 and I also thought it would be a good idea
> >> to upgrade Python to 2.7.6 and maybe even 3, so I tried to upgrade
> >> Ubuntu to 14.04. But after I completed the upgrade, Django didn't
> >> work and I couldn't even run migrations (with South). I had to
> >> reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 and I lost all the files I had in my home
> >> directory (because I chose not to keep Ubuntu 14.04) except some
> >> files that I backed up. My questions are:
> >>
> >> 1. What do we need to do in order for Django to work with Ubuntu
> >> 14.04? 2. Why isn't it possible to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 after
> >> upgrading to 14.04 and still keep all the files in my home
> >> directory, while not keeping all the other files (the operating
> >> system files)?
> >>
> > Why do you think it is not possible?  I do it all the time.
> > I  keep my home directory in a separate partition so when I upgrade
> > (or downgrade) the OS the home directory stays the same.
> >
> > --
> > Ori Idan
> >
> >



-- 
Efraim Flashner    
efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Thu May 15 19:19:52 2014
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:19:52 +0300
Subject: Never call kfree() in a device driver again
In-Reply-To: <537495FD.80808@billauer.co.il>
References: <537495FD.80808@billauer.co.il>
Message-ID: <CANy4znWi5H1eRb0SK8DXboR7ni3DAxwYu85SgDUudnvE0_JZNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eli,


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Eli Billauer <eli at billauer.co.il> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Ah, I just wanted to tell you that I'll hold a talk about managed resource
> allocation in the Linux kernel, in Haifux on May 26th.
>
> Abstract: http://www.haifux.org/lectures/323
>
>
Sounds interesting. Would you be interested in giving a rerun of this talk
in one of the clubs in Central Israel? It may not be exactly up to the Tel
Aviv Perl Mongers' alley, but maybe Qt Israel (also meeting in Shenkar
College in Ramat Gan) will like it.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish

-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From eli at billauer.co.il  Thu May 15 21:44:23 2014
From: eli at billauer.co.il (Eli Billauer)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 21:44:23 +0300
Subject: Never call kfree() in a device driver again
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znWi5H1eRb0SK8DXboR7ni3DAxwYu85SgDUudnvE0_JZNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <537495FD.80808@billauer.co.il>
 <CANy4znWi5H1eRb0SK8DXboR7ni3DAxwYu85SgDUudnvE0_JZNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53750B07.40702@billauer.co.il>

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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Fri May 16 14:08:18 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 21:08:18 +1000
Subject: Upgrading Ubuntu from 12.04 to 14.04
In-Reply-To: <20140515162709.1cf39189@x120e>
References: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACyhTRFg_e+cqXCmkqn_52h-kGWqAgRwWnrHkyu7qepLDnjdUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMQ2MsGw7nk20ZtcUi8oMXPNtOPf8v3bOxo_z51ntNtH55Q77Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140515162709.1cf39189@x120e>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WWC_xCDVDP=gADcgpCHdhDi_pey3MmdY_9EpSYps5rbAA@mail.gmail.com>

Beyond the original specific question - upgrades like this should be tested
using a Vagrant box, preferably also using an automatic provisioning tool
like Puppet (my personal preference) or Chef (obligatory mention) and
automatic testing using things like Cucumber, Spec, ServerSpec or perhaps
other testing frameworks.

That way you can write the tests to verify your current setup and repeat
the verification after the update.

Also - once you have automatic provisioning and testing in place, you
should consider treating the servers as immutable, i.e. once they are setup
they are not upgraded in-place but rebuilt whenever such a large change is
required. This way you are sure that what you run is exactly what you
tested in your Vagrant environment and what will be re-installed in case of
a disaster.


On 15 May 2014 23:27, Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't believe it is possible for a user to create a partition.  Of
> course that is more of a brain-fart on my part, because it's not so
> useful to your situation.  Gparted should be able to resize unmounted
> ext3/4 partitions, and from there you can create a new partition, copy
> your /home directory there and edit /etc/fstab to point to the new
> partition.
>
> I found these release notes:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes, but it looks rather
> short, and doesn't mention django.  Fortunately django has its own release
> notes here: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.6/releases/ which should
> help with the upgrade.
>
> Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, I've never used django.
>
> -Efraim
>
>
> On Thu, 15 May 2014 16:00:00 +0300
> Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net> wrote:
>
> > Thank you, it's a good idea. At work my home directory is not in a
> > separate partition so it's not kept if I reinstall Ubuntu. Do you
> > know how I can create a partition and move it to a separate partition?
> >
> > Uri Even-Chen
> > Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
> > E-mail: uri at speedy.net
> > Speedy Net: http://www.speedy.net/
> > Speedy Composer: http://www.speedycomposer.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Ori Idan <ori at helicontech.co.il>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi people,
> > >>
> > >> I work at my job with Ubuntu 12.04 and we run Django 1.4.12
> > >> locally with Python 2.7.3 and PostgreSQL. We want to upgrade
> > >> Django from 1.4 to 1.6 and I also thought it would be a good idea
> > >> to upgrade Python to 2.7.6 and maybe even 3, so I tried to upgrade
> > >> Ubuntu to 14.04. But after I completed the upgrade, Django didn't
> > >> work and I couldn't even run migrations (with South). I had to
> > >> reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 and I lost all the files I had in my home
> > >> directory (because I chose not to keep Ubuntu 14.04) except some
> > >> files that I backed up. My questions are:
> > >>
> > >> 1. What do we need to do in order for Django to work with Ubuntu
> > >> 14.04? 2. Why isn't it possible to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 after
> > >> upgrading to 14.04 and still keep all the files in my home
> > >> directory, while not keeping all the other files (the operating
> > >> system files)?
> > >>
> > > Why do you think it is not possible?  I do it all the time.
> > > I  keep my home directory in a separate partition so when I upgrade
> > > (or downgrade) the OS the home directory stays the same.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ori Idan
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> --
> Efraim Flashner
> efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
> GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From elazarl at gmail.com  Sun May 18 11:38:28 2014
From: elazarl at gmail.com (Elazar Leibovich)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 11:38:28 +0300
Subject: Upgrading Ubuntu from 12.04 to 14.04
In-Reply-To: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHNTFmJTeKQOAyNZfo0BcKBB51FgO-s36PqM8XY3XEqJs49XbQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'd urge you to consider using virtualenv to manage python dependencies.

The only OS dependency you'd have, is python. You shouldn't care about
dependencies beyond that.

This is even more correct when deploying your application.


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net> wrote:

> Hi people,
>
> I work at my job with Ubuntu 12.04 and we run Django 1.4.12 locally with
> Python 2.7.3 and PostgreSQL. We want to upgrade Django from 1.4 to 1.6 and
> I also thought it would be a good idea to upgrade Python to 2.7.6 and maybe
> even 3, so I tried to upgrade Ubuntu to 14.04. But after I completed the
> upgrade, Django didn't work and I couldn't even run migrations (with
> South). I had to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 and I lost all the files I had in
> my home directory (because I chose not to keep Ubuntu 14.04) except some
> files that I backed up. My questions are:
>
> 1. What do we need to do in order for Django to work with Ubuntu 14.04?
> 2. Why isn't it possible to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 after upgrading to
> 14.04 and still keep all the files in my home directory, while not keeping
> all the other files (the operating system files)?
>
> Thanks,
> Uri Even-Chen
> Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
> E-mail: uri at speedy.net
> Speedy Net: http://www.speedy.net/
> Speedy Composer: http://www.speedycomposer.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From uri at speedy.net  Sun May 18 18:53:48 2014
From: uri at speedy.net (Uri Even-Chen)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 18:53:48 +0300
Subject: Upgrading Ubuntu from 12.04 to 14.04
In-Reply-To: <CAHNTFmJTeKQOAyNZfo0BcKBB51FgO-s36PqM8XY3XEqJs49XbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMQ2MsHD=NPkXpBYG0Gq1YrYO1rdhbOqLfBQhB0-JhobNBJkug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHNTFmJTeKQOAyNZfo0BcKBB51FgO-s36PqM8XY3XEqJs49XbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMQ2MsFfqV8wLXMcVqQ59Sm2edfefw5-NpW3vDyx36_5vhuRPg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, we use virtualenv. Thank you.

Uri Even-Chen
Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
E-mail: uri at speedy.net
Speedy Net: http://www.speedy.net/
Speedy Composer: http://www.speedycomposer.com/



On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Elazar Leibovich <elazarl at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'd urge you to consider using virtualenv to manage python dependencies.
>
> The only OS dependency you'd have, is python. You shouldn't care about
> dependencies beyond that.
>
> This is even more correct when deploying your application.
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Uri Even-Chen <uri at speedy.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi people,
>>
>> I work at my job with Ubuntu 12.04 and we run Django 1.4.12 locally with
>> Python 2.7.3 and PostgreSQL. We want to upgrade Django from 1.4 to 1.6 and
>> I also thought it would be a good idea to upgrade Python to 2.7.6 and maybe
>> even 3, so I tried to upgrade Ubuntu to 14.04. But after I completed the
>> upgrade, Django didn't work and I couldn't even run migrations (with
>> South). I had to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 and I lost all the files I had in
>> my home directory (because I chose not to keep Ubuntu 14.04) except some
>> files that I backed up. My questions are:
>>
>> 1. What do we need to do in order for Django to work with Ubuntu 14.04?
>> 2. Why isn't it possible to reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 after upgrading to
>> 14.04 and still keep all the files in my home directory, while not keeping
>> all the other files (the operating system files)?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Uri Even-Chen
>> Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
>> E-mail: uri at speedy.net
>> Speedy Net: http://www.speedy.net/
>> Speedy Composer: http://www.speedycomposer.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Sun May 18 23:19:17 2014
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 23:19:17 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads with
 Latest Untained Kernel
Message-ID: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

happy Lag Baomer everybody, and you may have enjoyed the game tonight.

I'm running Mageia Linux x86-64 Cauldron (= the development distribution -
what will become v5) on an Intel Core i3 machine with two cores and two
hyperthreads per core, whose SPECs are:

   - An Intel Core i3 CPU (x86-64).
   - 8 GB of RAM.
   - Intel Corporation Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
   - A 2 TB hard-disk.
   - A 21" Wide LCD Screen by LG.
   - Intel Corporation Cougar Point High Definition Audio Controller.
   - Intel Corporation 82579V Gigabit Network Connection.

Now, I noticed that if I run CPU intensive tasks on it with two or more
threads, then the "sensors" program (of lm-sensors) often reports an
overheating and I get traces on virtual console 1, even if I'm using nice
-19 and ionice. Here is a demo:

with kernel:

1. 3.15.0-rc5 - built from source and untainted.

2. This program:

shlomif at telaviv1:~$ cat overheat1.bash
#!/bin/bash
cd ~/progs/freecell/git/fc-solve/fc-solve/B
sudo ionice -c3 -p$$
nice -n19 freecell-solver-multi-thread-solve 1 100000000 \
     1000 --num-workers 4 --worker-step 16 -l as -mi 1000000

shlomif at telaviv1:~$

(The executable is part of the Freecell Solver package that is available
for Debian, Mageia and other distributions. You may need to increase
--num-workers).

3. After running it inside tmux and running this:

shlomif at telaviv1:~$ cat sensors_loop.bash
#!/bin/bash
(while true ; do date +"Time=%s" ; sensors | head -5 ; sleep 5 ; done) >>
sensors.log.txt

---
I'm getting many high temperatures in the log:

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0:  +98.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
Core 0:         +98.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
Core 1:         +97.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)

They eventually are dropped but it's still alarming.

My questions are:

1. Is this a problem with the kernel? (Muli? Anyone? Can you comment?)

2. Should I report it to bugzilla.kernel.org?

3. Is it a known problem?

Thanks for any help.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish
-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Mon May 19 08:07:38 2014
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 08:07:38 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads with
 Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm getting many high temperatures in the log:
>
> coretemp-isa-0000
> Adapter: ISA adapter
> Physical id 0:? +98.0?C? (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> Core 0:???????? +98.0?C? (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> Core 1:???????? +97.0?C? (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
>
> They eventually are dropped but it's still alarming.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. Is this a problem with the kernel? (Muli? Anyone? Can you comment?)

You can either wait for Muli's authoritative response about the kernel
or run a test with a signficantly different kernel version yourself. It
is reasonable to assume that if the kernel were to blame for CPU
overheating for *any* reason at all it would have been noticed by people
in any version that is more than a month old. So if your cutting edge
3.15.0-rc5 runs hot and some reasonably stable kernel (preferably
distro-compiled and not self-compiled to avoid Kconfig weirdness on your
end) doesn't you may start to suspect something.
 
If you do get suspicious run your test (with both kernels) on a
different computer - convince someone to boot off your USB or
something. Then you may decide to report that 3.15.0-rc5 with a given
configuration seems to act weirdly on more than one system. If it does,
of course.
 
In general, I wouldn't blame the kernel too soon. You do not provide any
information on your computer's cooling facilities, form factor,
enclosure type or brand, or, indeed, provenance (brand name?
self-specced and self-assembled? overclocked by an unscrupulous
neighbourhood computer shop without your knowledge?  etc.). Could it be
that its cooling is insufficient at high load? Have you verified that
all your fans work fine?  Is air flow good enough (you won't know, but
[some] big brands are more likely to design for that)? Does anything
(from dust to a wall that is too close) clog or block ventilation holes?
Are the sensors correcty located, well calibrated, and working properly?

As an additional wild hand-waving, does anything change if you switch
hyperthreading off in the BIOS?

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon May 19 10:12:23 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 10:12:23 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads with
 Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>

Afaik all modern CPUs are fitted with mechanism that will slow them down or
turn them off when they get too got, those mechanisms are on die and I'm
pretty sure you can't disable them from the OS.


2014-05-19 8:07 GMT+03:00 Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org>:

> Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I'm getting many high temperatures in the log:
> >
> > coretemp-isa-0000
> > Adapter: ISA adapter
> > Physical id 0:  +98.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> > Core 0:         +98.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> > Core 1:         +97.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> >
> > They eventually are dropped but it's still alarming.
> >
> > My questions are:
> >
> > 1. Is this a problem with the kernel? (Muli? Anyone? Can you comment?)
>
> You can either wait for Muli's authoritative response about the kernel
> or run a test with a signficantly different kernel version yourself. It
> is reasonable to assume that if the kernel were to blame for CPU
> overheating for *any* reason at all it would have been noticed by people
> in any version that is more than a month old. So if your cutting edge
> 3.15.0-rc5 runs hot and some reasonably stable kernel (preferably
> distro-compiled and not self-compiled to avoid Kconfig weirdness on your
> end) doesn't you may start to suspect something.
>
> If you do get suspicious run your test (with both kernels) on a
> different computer - convince someone to boot off your USB or
> something. Then you may decide to report that 3.15.0-rc5 with a given
> configuration seems to act weirdly on more than one system. If it does,
> of course.
>
> In general, I wouldn't blame the kernel too soon. You do not provide any
> information on your computer's cooling facilities, form factor,
> enclosure type or brand, or, indeed, provenance (brand name?
> self-specced and self-assembled? overclocked by an unscrupulous
> neighbourhood computer shop without your knowledge?  etc.). Could it be
> that its cooling is insufficient at high load? Have you verified that
> all your fans work fine?  Is air flow good enough (you won't know, but
> [some] big brands are more likely to design for that)? Does anything
> (from dust to a wall that is too close) clog or block ventilation holes?
> Are the sensors correcty located, well calibrated, and working properly?
>
> As an additional wild hand-waving, does anything change if you switch
> hyperthreading off in the BIOS?
>
> --
> Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From efraim.flashner at gmail.com  Mon May 19 10:19:23 2014
From: efraim.flashner at gmail.com (Efraim Flashner)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 10:19:23 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads
 with Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>

Also, nice -19 is higher priority than nice 19.

my netbook generally is in the mid 70s for temperature.  When doing
something intensive, such as starting chrome or installing a new kernel
(update-initramfs or rebuilding modules) it'll go up to 99C, and then
go back down over time.  I have found that with the catalyst drivers my
netbook runs cooler and uses less battery, but I haven't had it
overheat and shutdown.  If it regularly is near the top of the thermal
limit then you should be worried, but only occasionally shouldn't be a
big deal.

I did have a laptop that when using 3/8 threads at 100% would pass its
thermal limit and shutdown.  That one was clearly poorly designed.

-Efraim



On Mon, 19 May 2014 10:12:23 +0300
"E.S. Rosenberg" <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:

> Afaik all modern CPUs are fitted with mechanism that will slow them
> down or turn them off when they get too got, those mechanisms are on
> die and I'm pretty sure you can't disable them from the OS.
> 
> 
> 2014-05-19 8:07 GMT+03:00 Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org>:
> 
> > Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > I'm getting many high temperatures in the log:
> > >
> > > coretemp-isa-0000
> > > Adapter: ISA adapter
> > > Physical id 0:  +98.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> > > Core 0:         +98.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> > > Core 1:         +97.0?C  (high = +82.0?C, crit = +102.0?C)
> > >
> > > They eventually are dropped but it's still alarming.
> > >
> > > My questions are:
> > >
> > > 1. Is this a problem with the kernel? (Muli? Anyone? Can you
> > > comment?)
> >
> > You can either wait for Muli's authoritative response about the
> > kernel or run a test with a signficantly different kernel version
> > yourself. It is reasonable to assume that if the kernel were to
> > blame for CPU overheating for *any* reason at all it would have
> > been noticed by people in any version that is more than a month
> > old. So if your cutting edge 3.15.0-rc5 runs hot and some
> > reasonably stable kernel (preferably distro-compiled and not
> > self-compiled to avoid Kconfig weirdness on your end) doesn't you
> > may start to suspect something.
> >
> > If you do get suspicious run your test (with both kernels) on a
> > different computer - convince someone to boot off your USB or
> > something. Then you may decide to report that 3.15.0-rc5 with a
> > given configuration seems to act weirdly on more than one system.
> > If it does, of course.
> >
> > In general, I wouldn't blame the kernel too soon. You do not
> > provide any information on your computer's cooling facilities, form
> > factor, enclosure type or brand, or, indeed, provenance (brand name?
> > self-specced and self-assembled? overclocked by an unscrupulous
> > neighbourhood computer shop without your knowledge?  etc.). Could
> > it be that its cooling is insufficient at high load? Have you
> > verified that all your fans work fine?  Is air flow good enough
> > (you won't know, but [some] big brands are more likely to design
> > for that)? Does anything (from dust to a wall that is too close)
> > clog or block ventilation holes? Are the sensors correcty located,
> > well calibrated, and working properly?
> >
> > As an additional wild hand-waving, does anything change if you
> > switch hyperthreading off in the BIOS?
> >
> > --
> > Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >



-- 
Efraim Flashner    
efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
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From shlomif at shlomifish.org  Mon May 19 12:55:23 2014
From: shlomif at shlomifish.org (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 12:55:23 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads
 with Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>
Message-ID: <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>

Hi Efraim,

On Mon, 19 May 2014 10:19:23 +0300
Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, nice -19 is higher priority than nice 19.
> 

No, it's not. When you run the "nice -19" it sets it to the lowest possible
priority. I see these processes in htop where the nice is set at 19 and I
cannot lower it at all.

> my netbook generally is in the mid 70s for temperature.  When doing
> something intensive, such as starting chrome or installing a new kernel
> (update-initramfs or rebuilding modules) it'll go up to 99C, and then
> go back down over time.  I have found that with the catalyst drivers my
> netbook runs cooler and uses less battery, but I haven't had it
> overheat and shutdown.  If it regularly is near the top of the thermal
> limit then you should be worried, but only occasionally shouldn't be a
> big deal.
> 
> I did have a laptop that when using 3/8 threads at 100% would pass its
> thermal limit and shutdown.  That one was clearly poorly designed.
> 

Ah, I see, thanks.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/

With the NSA?s budget you would expect evil to be extinct by now. (By Kika).
    ? http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/NSA/

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon May 19 17:40:00 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 17:40:00 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads with
 Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>
 <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BO4BmiQhn0XRT8h9udXNSor1Q_Bmjd0RZY2c0N=a7F-PQ@mail.gmail.com>

2014-05-19 12:55 GMT+03:00 Shlomi Fish <shlomif at shlomifish.org>:

> Hi Efraim,
>
> On Mon, 19 May 2014 10:19:23 +0300
> Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Also, nice -19 is higher priority than nice 19.
> >
>
> No, it's not. When you run the "nice -19" it sets it to the lowest possible
> priority. I see these processes in htop where the nice is set at 19 and I
> cannot lower it at all.
>
I may be misreading you but:
nice values go between -20 and 20 where negative numbers have a *higher*
priority then positive numbers, it's a "rating" of how "nice" my program is
to others, so -20 is absolutely rude to the others and doesn't share
whereas 20 will always yield right of way...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_%28Unix%29
Regards,
Eliyahu - ?????

>
> > my netbook generally is in the mid 70s for temperature.  When doing
> > something intensive, such as starting chrome or installing a new kernel
> > (update-initramfs or rebuilding modules) it'll go up to 99C, and then
> > go back down over time.  I have found that with the catalyst drivers my
> > netbook runs cooler and uses less battery, but I haven't had it
> > overheat and shutdown.  If it regularly is near the top of the thermal
> > limit then you should be worried, but only occasionally shouldn't be a
> > big deal.
> >
> > I did have a laptop that when using 3/8 threads at 100% would pass its
> > thermal limit and shutdown.  That one was clearly poorly designed.
> >
>
> Ah, I see, thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
>         Shlomi Fish
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/
>
> With the NSA?s budget you would expect evil to be extinct by now. (By
> Kika).
>     ? http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/NSA/
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Mon May 19 19:05:07 2014
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 19:05:07 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads with
 Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BO4BmiQhn0XRT8h9udXNSor1Q_Bmjd0RZY2c0N=a7F-PQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>
 <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
 <CAHTx_BO4BmiQhn0XRT8h9udXNSor1Q_Bmjd0RZY2c0N=a7F-PQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy4znUDX5tq6A=Wgr8ibt3K=7exJ5ZnMS97PnHc593WJRiphA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eliyahu,


On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 5:40 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il>wrote:

>
>
>
> 2014-05-19 12:55 GMT+03:00 Shlomi Fish <shlomif at shlomifish.org>:
>
> Hi Efraim,
>>
>> On Mon, 19 May 2014 10:19:23 +0300
>> Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Also, nice -19 is higher priority than nice 19.
>> >
>>
>> No, it's not. When you run the "nice -19" it sets it to the lowest
>> possible
>> priority. I see these processes in htop where the nice is set at 19 and I
>> cannot lower it at all.
>>
> I may be misreading you but:
> nice values go between -20 and 20 where negative numbers have a *higher*
> priority then positive numbers, it's a "rating" of how "nice" my program is
> to others, so -20 is absolutely rude to the others and doesn't share
> whereas 20 will always yield right of way...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_%28Unix%29
> Regards,
> Eliyahu - ?????
>

I know that but what the "nice -19" command actually does is increase the
nice value to the maximum, which means it always tries to share, and has
the lowest priority as far as the sytem is concerned. See for example this
shell session:

[SHELL]
shlomif at telaviv1:~$
shlomif at telaviv1:~$
shlomif at telaviv1:~$ nice 19 bash
nice: 19: No such file or directory
shlomif at telaviv1:~$ nice -19 bash
shlomif at telaviv1:~$ exit
exit
shlomif at telaviv1:~$ nice -n -19 bash
nice: cannot set niceness: Permission denied
shlomif at telaviv1:~$ exit
exit
shlomif at telaviv1:~$ nice -n 19 bash
shlomif at telaviv1:~$ exit
exit
shlomif at telaviv1:~$

[/SHELL]

all of the relevant processes have a nice value of "19" and a PRI of 39
which means they have the lowest priority.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish


-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Mon May 19 20:06:53 2014
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 20:06:53 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads with
 Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BO4BmiQhn0XRT8h9udXNSor1Q_Bmjd0RZY2c0N=a7F-PQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>
 <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
 <CAHTx_BO4BmiQhn0XRT8h9udXNSor1Q_Bmjd0RZY2c0N=a7F-PQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87sio5elzm.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

"E.S. Rosenberg" <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> writes:

> I may be misreading you but:
> nice values go between -20 and 20 where negative numbers have a
> *higher* priority then positive numbers, it's a "rating" of how "nice"
> my program is to others, so -20 is absolutely rude to the others and
> doesn't share whereas 20 will always yield right of way...

Your understanding of niceness is right. What you are missing is that
Shlomi uses the old (familiar, but deprecated) syntax: "nice -19"
actually means the same as the more modern "nice -n 19".

Check 

info coreutils 'nice invocation'

for explanations and examples.

[Also note that the nice argument is relative to the current niceness,
not an absolute value.]

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Mon May 19 20:08:06 2014
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 19:08:06 +0200
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads
 with Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>
 <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
Message-ID: <20140519170806.GQ2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:55:23PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> Hi Efraim,
> 
> On Mon, 19 May 2014 10:19:23 +0300
> Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Also, nice -19 is higher priority than nice 19.
> > 
> 
> No, it's not. When you run the "nice -19" it sets it to the lowest possible
> priority. I see these processes in htop where the nice is set at 19 and I
> cannot lower it at all.

If nice is not enough for your process, ask it to be verynice:
http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/software/verynice/

"verynice is a nice(1)-like utility to throttle long running processes
beyond what can be achieved by nice(1), by repeatedly suspending and
resuming the process."

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Tue May 20 09:14:16 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:14:16 +0300
Subject: qemu and chroot
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>

I am using centos 6 and  developing for an armel platform

i created a rootfs using multistrap/debbootstrap

i copied qemu-arm-static to rootfs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static

and i was astonished that doing just 'chroot rootfs' worked, without
explicitly telling 'chroot' to use qemu-arm-static - somehow it decided
automatically to run everything under qemu-arm-static without me telling it
to.


after a restart of the server. rootfs does not work anymore automatically,
i get a "chroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': Exec format error"
doing "chroot rootfs /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /bin/bash" does chroot, but
i get : "bash: /bin/cat: cannot execute binary file" (although
rootfs/bin/cat is a perfectly ok armel binary, tested on the armel target).
i also checked the md5sum of the rootfs/qemu-arm-static binary, and it is ok

i mounted the rootfs on the armel target using nfs, and chrooted from the
target, and it works perfectly, meaning there is nothing wrong with the
rootfs filesystem

as it wonderously worked, now it wonerously  doesn't

tryed googleling for it , but still cant find how to make it work

any idea ?
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Tue May 20 09:30:46 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:30:46 +0300
Subject: qemu and chroot
In-Reply-To: <20140520062402.GH27238@tarshish>
References: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140520062402.GH27238@tarshish>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wnNyNjfGq0G=M4UsaOQisigrpyCJAfZUTbMP-H9hL9Wgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Baruch Siach <baruch at tkos.co.il> wrote:

> Hi Erez,
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:14:16AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> > I am using centos 6 and  developing for an armel platform
> >
> > i created a rootfs using multistrap/debbootstrap
> >
> > i copied qemu-arm-static to rootfs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static
>
> Is this QEMU built for your host (presumably x86) or your target (ARM)?
>
obviously for my host

>
> Do you really need to run QEMU on your target?
>
no, my target runs armel natively, my host uses qemu-arm for that

>
> > and i was astonished that doing just 'chroot rootfs' worked, without
> > explicitly telling 'chroot' to use qemu-arm-static - somehow it decided
> > automatically to run everything under qemu-arm-static without me telling
> it
> > to.
> >
> > after a restart of the server. rootfs does not work anymore
> automatically,
> > i get a "chroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': Exec format error"
> > doing "chroot rootfs /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /bin/bash" does chroot, but
> > i get : "bash: /bin/cat: cannot execute binary file" (although
> > rootfs/bin/cat is a perfectly ok armel binary, tested on the armel
> target).
> > i also checked the md5sum of the rootfs/qemu-arm-static binary, and it
> is ok
> >
> > i mounted the rootfs on the armel target using nfs, and chrooted from the
> > target, and it works perfectly, meaning there is nothing wrong with the
> > rootfs filesystem
>
> Chrooted from what target? Is it a hardware ARM system? QEMU?
>
my target is armel and it chrooted to rootfs dir and ran the armel code
natively,just to show that the rootfs a valid armel rootfs.

>
> baruch
>
> > as it wonderously worked, now it wonerously  doesn't
> >
> > tryed googleling for it , but still cant find how to make it work
> >
> > any idea ?
>
> --
>      http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open
> Systems
> =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>    - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
>
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From baruch at tkos.co.il  Tue May 20 09:24:02 2014
From: baruch at tkos.co.il (Baruch Siach)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:24:02 +0300
Subject: qemu and chroot
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140520062402.GH27238@tarshish>

Hi Erez,

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:14:16AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> I am using centos 6 and  developing for an armel platform
> 
> i created a rootfs using multistrap/debbootstrap
> 
> i copied qemu-arm-static to rootfs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static

Is this QEMU built for your host (presumably x86) or your target (ARM)?

Do you really need to run QEMU on your target?

> and i was astonished that doing just 'chroot rootfs' worked, without
> explicitly telling 'chroot' to use qemu-arm-static - somehow it decided
> automatically to run everything under qemu-arm-static without me telling it
> to.
> 
> after a restart of the server. rootfs does not work anymore automatically,
> i get a "chroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': Exec format error"
> doing "chroot rootfs /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /bin/bash" does chroot, but
> i get : "bash: /bin/cat: cannot execute binary file" (although
> rootfs/bin/cat is a perfectly ok armel binary, tested on the armel target).
> i also checked the md5sum of the rootfs/qemu-arm-static binary, and it is ok
> 
> i mounted the rootfs on the armel target using nfs, and chrooted from the
> target, and it works perfectly, meaning there is nothing wrong with the
> rootfs filesystem

Chrooted from what target? Is it a hardware ARM system? QEMU?

baruch

> as it wonderously worked, now it wonerously  doesn't
> 
> tryed googleling for it , but still cant find how to make it work
> 
> any idea ?

-- 
     http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
   - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -


From valery_reznic at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 09:36:32 2014
From: valery_reznic at yahoo.com (Valery Reznic)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 23:36:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: qemu and chroot
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1400567792.56046.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>





>________________________________
> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il> 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:14 AM
>Subject: qemu and chroot
> 
>
>
>I am using centos 6 and? developing for an armel platform
>
>i created a rootfs using multistrap/debbootstrap
>
>i copied qemu-arm-static to rootfs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static
>
>and
 i was astonished that doing just 'chroot rootfs' worked, without 
explicitly telling 'chroot' to use qemu-arm-static - somehow it decided 
automatically to run everything under qemu-arm-static without me telling
 it to.
"It" can't decide by itself to run qemu-arm-static.
When you are trying to run executable that no native executable pattern is checked
and if there is registered runners (like qemu, wine, etc) then this runner used.

In order to register runner you have to write magic string into
/proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/register

Format of this string described for example here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binfmt_misc

Valery



>
>
>
>after a restart of the server. rootfs does not work anymore automatically,
>
>i get a "chroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': Exec format error"
>
>doing "chroot rootfs /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /bin/bash" does chroot, but
>
>i
 get : "bash: /bin/cat: cannot execute binary file" (although 
rootfs/bin/cat is a perfectly ok armel binary, tested on the armel 
target).
>
>i also checked the md5sum of the rootfs/qemu-arm-static binary, and it is ok
>
>
>i
 mounted the rootfs on the armel target using nfs, and chrooted from the
 target, and it works perfectly, meaning there is nothing wrong with the
 rootfs filesystem
>
>
>as it wonderously worked, now it wonerously? doesn't
>
>
>tryed googleling for it , but still cant find how to make it work
>
>
>any idea ?
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Linux-il mailing list
>Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
>
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From rabin at rabin.io  Tue May 20 10:15:34 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 10:15:34 +0300
Subject: Googlebot searching for ".../bin/en.jsp"
Message-ID: <CABKuJEDR+4fb8rV2K7Odk0tPAHdVztBXR4iRpHcuVm1oVsUpxQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have installed fail2ban on one of my servers, and created a set of rules
to block some request the (from my point of view) looks like probing
attempts.

One of the rules is to block on site, any request to *.jsp which i don't
have on this server.

Today i got a mail about a blocked IP which belong to Google (based on
whois).
# whois 66.249.79.57

can any one tell me, why Googlebot will search for something i don't have
any reference to in my site?


*--Rabin*
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From linux-il at shimi.net  Tue May 20 10:23:32 2014
From: linux-il at shimi.net (shimi)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 10:23:32 +0300
Subject: Googlebot searching for ".../bin/en.jsp"
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEDR+4fb8rV2K7Odk0tPAHdVztBXR4iRpHcuVm1oVsUpxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABKuJEDR+4fb8rV2K7Odk0tPAHdVztBXR4iRpHcuVm1oVsUpxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKnt4U-m+3+W6W1XghS7o7PoJTOSD5bijUov=3w6jMz7WWt7Fg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:

> I have installed fail2ban on one of my servers, and created a set of rules
> to block some request the (from my point of view) looks like probing
> attempts.
>
> One of the rules is to block on site, any request to *.jsp which i don't
> have on this server.
>
> Today i got a mail about a blocked IP which belong to Google (based on
> whois).
> # whois 66.249.79.57
>
> can any one tell me, why Googlebot will search for something i don't have
> any reference to in my site?
>
>
The ".." does look strange, I think Googlebot always use Canonical URLs in
general...

Just a note: The fact that there's no reference in your site (if that is
indeed a fact...) - does NOT say that there isn't such a reference in any
other site on the Internet...

Note that Google also has GCE - I would assume the netblocks for GCE would
also say "Google"... maybe it's a crawler which is not really Googlebot,
rather than an impersonator running through GCE...

-- Shimi
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From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Tue May 20 11:22:36 2014
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 10:22:36 +0200
Subject: qemu and chroot
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140520082236.GR2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:14:16AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
> I am using centos 6 and  developing for an armel platform
> 
> i created a rootfs using multistrap/debbootstrap
> 
> i copied qemu-arm-static to rootfs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static

There's something missing from your description. I suspect you forgot to
mention it: debootstrap's run can be broken to two parts: one that
downloads everything, and the second stage that needs to run inside the
chroot. In that case:

  debootstrap --foreign [--arch=] [rest of parameters]
  chroot to/chroot
  ./debootstrap --second-stage

At least in Debian, the package qemu-user-static includes the wrapper
qemu-debootstrap to do just that, and also copy the required
qemu-user-static.

> 
> and i was astonished that doing just 'chroot rootfs' worked, without
> explicitly telling 'chroot' to use qemu-arm-static - somehow it decided
> automatically to run everything under qemu-arm-static without me telling it
> to.
> 
> 
> after a restart of the server. rootfs does not work anymore automatically,
> i get a "chroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': Exec format error"
> doing "chroot rootfs /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /bin/bash" does chroot, but
> i get : "bash: /bin/cat: cannot execute binary file" (although
> rootfs/bin/cat is a perfectly ok armel binary, tested on the armel target).
> i also checked the md5sum of the rootfs/qemu-arm-static binary, and it is ok

A chroot does not replace the kernel. It's running on your kernel and
that kernel does not natively support the armel binaries.

In Debian, the package qemu-user-static registers foreign Linux ELF
formats. So maybe you forgot this is needed. Specifically:

$ cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/qemu-arm
enabled
interpreter /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static
flags: 
offset 0
magic 7f454c4601010100000000000000000002002800
mask ffffffffffffff00fffffffffffffffffeffffff

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Tue May 20 12:13:04 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 12:13:04 +0300
Subject: qemu and chroot
In-Reply-To: <20140520082236.GR2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>
References: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140520082236.GR2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wnOhAB0A-VNFBgHrUvseVWfh3Hq0FD9UBVFMjf6KROusQ@mail.gmail.com>

ok, it now works
/proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/qemu-arm was missing,
internet searc told me to look for 'binfmt-support' pkg, however i
could not find none for centos6
so as chrooted systems share the same kernel (just need to mount /proc
under the chroot dir), I chroot to my wheezy_i686 (i have some chroots
for testing other disros), and there i did apt-get install
binfmt-support qemu-user-static, and update-binfmts --display

now i have /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/qemu-arm. amd everything works again


(i do not know if this is permenent or will require redoing after
reboot), but i will check it at next reboot (somthing like in 6 months
;-)

thanks
erez

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il> wrote:
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:14:16AM +0300, Erez D wrote:
>> I am using centos 6 and  developing for an armel platform
>>
>> i created a rootfs using multistrap/debbootstrap
>>
>> i copied qemu-arm-static to rootfs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static
>
> There's something missing from your description. I suspect you forgot to
> mention it: debootstrap's run can be broken to two parts: one that
> downloads everything, and the second stage that needs to run inside the
> chroot. In that case:
>
>   debootstrap --foreign [--arch=] [rest of parameters]
>   chroot to/chroot
>   ./debootstrap --second-stage
>
> At least in Debian, the package qemu-user-static includes the wrapper
> qemu-debootstrap to do just that, and also copy the required
> qemu-user-static.
>
>>
>> and i was astonished that doing just 'chroot rootfs' worked, without
>> explicitly telling 'chroot' to use qemu-arm-static - somehow it decided
>> automatically to run everything under qemu-arm-static without me telling it
>> to.
>>
>>
>> after a restart of the server. rootfs does not work anymore automatically,
>> i get a "chroot: failed to run command `/bin/bash': Exec format error"
>> doing "chroot rootfs /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /bin/bash" does chroot, but
>> i get : "bash: /bin/cat: cannot execute binary file" (although
>> rootfs/bin/cat is a perfectly ok armel binary, tested on the armel target).
>> i also checked the md5sum of the rootfs/qemu-arm-static binary, and it is ok
>
> A chroot does not replace the kernel. It's running on your kernel and
> that kernel does not natively support the armel binaries.
>
> In Debian, the package qemu-user-static registers foreign Linux ELF
> formats. So maybe you forgot this is needed. Specifically:
>
> $ cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/qemu-arm
> enabled
> interpreter /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static
> flags:
> offset 0
> magic 7f454c4601010100000000000000000002002800
> mask ffffffffffffff00fffffffffffffffffeffffff
>
> --
> Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
> http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
> tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
> tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il


From rabin at rabin.io  Tue May 20 12:14:22 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 12:14:22 +0300
Subject: Googlebot searching for ".../bin/en.jsp"
In-Reply-To: <CAKnt4U-m+3+W6W1XghS7o7PoJTOSD5bijUov=3w6jMz7WWt7Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABKuJEDR+4fb8rV2K7Odk0tPAHdVztBXR4iRpHcuVm1oVsUpxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-m+3+W6W1XghS7o7PoJTOSD5bijUov=3w6jMz7WWt7Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEDx=3qdsTzM2XBqZ_x0Uw14e8iaApNgiz3GHw3yTmyvpQ@mail.gmail.com>

Good point, thank you.


*-- Rabin*


On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:23 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:

> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io>wrote:
>
>> I have installed fail2ban on one of my servers, and created a set of
>> rules to block some request the (from my point of view) looks like probing
>> attempts.
>>
>> One of the rules is to block on site, any request to *.jsp which i don't
>> have on this server.
>>
>> Today i got a mail about a blocked IP which belong to Google (based on
>> whois).
>> # whois 66.249.79.57
>>
>> can any one tell me, why Googlebot will search for something i don't have
>> any reference to in my site?
>>
>>
> The ".." does look strange, I think Googlebot always use Canonical URLs in
> general...
>
> Just a note: The fact that there's no reference in your site (if that is
> indeed a fact...) - does NOT say that there isn't such a reference in any
> other site on the Internet...
>
> Note that Google also has GCE - I would assume the netblocks for GCE would
> also say "Google"... maybe it's a crawler which is not really Googlebot,
> rather than an impersonator running through GCE...
>
> -- Shimi
>
>
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Tue May 20 15:33:20 2014
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 15:33:20 +0300
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?RndkOiBGdzogW+KAjtec15nXoNeV16fXoeKAjl0g4oCO4oCr16LXnteV16rXqiDXlNee?=
 =?UTF-8?B?16fXldeoINen15nXmdee16og16fXpteqINeZ15XXqteoINee16LXqdeV16gsINeV157XmNeo15XXqteZ?=
 =?UTF-8?B?15QuLi7igKzigI4=?=
In-Reply-To: <20140520143156.20d5dfeb@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
References: <20140520143156.20d5dfeb@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
Message-ID: <CANy4znUR4ZNY1QSBoy1XLGh=r-yOPPyYUi0epByewUnLRYFx2Q@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif at shlomifish.org>
Date: 2014-05-20 14:31 GMT+03:00
Subject: Fw: [????????] ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????, ????????...??
To: shlomif at gmail.com




Begin forwarded message:

Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 03:42:54 -0700
From: "Tomer Cohen" <notification+o9t04tz9 at facebookmail.com>
To: ?????? <linux.il at groups.facebook.com>
Subject: [????????] ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????, ????????...??


Tomer Cohen posted in ????????

????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????,
???????? ???????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????
?????? ?????? ????. ????? ???????? ??
?????? ????? ???? ?????, ???? ???? ??
??? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????????
??????? ?????, ?????? ???????? ?????
????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ???
????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ???
???? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ??????
???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????.

?????? ????????? ?????? ???? ?????
????? ?????? ????? ????. ????? ??????
??????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??????
?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???????,
?????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????
????? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??????
????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????
???? ????? ?????.

?????? ?????? ???, ???? ?? ?????
?????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?????
???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??
?????? ????? ?? ????. ??? ????? ??
?????? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ??
????? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??
???? ???? ????? ?????. ???? ?????
????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???????
???? ?? ???? ?????? ???????? ???????,
??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ?????
?????? ????? ????? ??????.



????? ????? ????? ? ?????? ?????!
http://www.facebook.com/l/4AQF-nhBGAQEItOxRuztcE3zaF5sKmA4I9Dzjxda5doFdeA/t.co/UZEquXgst8

???? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????
?????? ?? ????? ?????, ????? ???? ??
??????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????
????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???????
??? ?????? ????. ????? ????? ??????
???? 18:00, ????? ?...


Reply to this email to comment on this post.


https://www.facebook.com/n/?groups%2Flinux.il%2Fpermalink%2F634694503283809%2F&aref=206374880&medium=email&mid=9dfe8dcG27b2eaf4Gc4d07e0G96Gfce3&bcode=1.1400236974.AblD1W-r8600vloj&n_m=shlomif%40shlomifish.org

=======================================
Reply to this email to add a comment. Change your notification settings:
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--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
Chuck Norris/etc. Facts - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/

Nobody expects the Randal Schwartz condition!
    ? David Fetter

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .



-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Tue May 20 17:38:56 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 00:38:56 +1000
Subject: qemu and chroot
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnOhAB0A-VNFBgHrUvseVWfh3Hq0FD9UBVFMjf6KROusQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wmZxtp4rskSg0q0rJLQgi5Y55pNh9ipPMmrvZP+euGHww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140520082236.GR2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <CAMUp3wnOhAB0A-VNFBgHrUvseVWfh3Hq0FD9UBVFMjf6KROusQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WU1jwthi0+rd+oON4pUsvK8bMjKApRcOPA9VWBEXuZNkA@mail.gmail.com>

Most of the times when I use chroot, I usually do something a-la (from
memory):

for i in proc dev sys; do mount -o bind /$i /chrootdir/$i; done
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Wed May 21 01:00:48 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 01:00:48 +0300
Subject: Googlebot searching for ".../bin/en.jsp"
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEDx=3qdsTzM2XBqZ_x0Uw14e8iaApNgiz3GHw3yTmyvpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABKuJEDR+4fb8rV2K7Odk0tPAHdVztBXR4iRpHcuVm1oVsUpxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-m+3+W6W1XghS7o7PoJTOSD5bijUov=3w6jMz7WWt7Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEDx=3qdsTzM2XBqZ_x0Uw14e8iaApNgiz3GHw3yTmyvpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BM1wHQ1p3wDnL30sf8TProy4xScbzQL8h1FB+hxzOf8=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Re:all - didn't notice it was linux-il

host 66.249.79.57
57.79.249.66.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer
crawl-66-249-79-57.googlebot.com.

This suggests that it is indeed googlebot, why should they put GCE on
googlebot hosts, way too high a risk of resulting in blocked bots.
I would guess that either
- They were testing a new crawler that is messing up (likely, but less I
think since it should/would do so locally first)
- Some other site contains a link to the content you don't have or someone
(intentionally) made a query of the google search engine which triggered
the crawler trying said URI.

Regards,
Eliyahu - ?????


2014-05-20 12:14 GMT+03:00 Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io>:

> Good point, thank you.
>
>
> *-- Rabin*
>
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:23 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io>wrote:
>>
>>> I have installed fail2ban on one of my servers, and created a set of
>>> rules to block some request the (from my point of view) looks like probing
>>> attempts.
>>>
>>> One of the rules is to block on site, any request to *.jsp which i don't
>>> have on this server.
>>>
>>> Today i got a mail about a blocked IP which belong to Google (based on
>>> whois).
>>> # whois 66.249.79.57
>>>
>>> can any one tell me, why Googlebot will search for something i don't
>>> have any reference to in my site?
>>>
>>>
>> The ".." does look strange, I think Googlebot always use Canonical URLs
>> in general...
>>
>> Just a note: The fact that there's no reference in your site (if that is
>> indeed a fact...) - does NOT say that there isn't such a reference in any
>> other site on the Internet...
>>
>> Note that Google also has GCE - I would assume the netblocks for GCE
>> would also say "Google"... maybe it's a crawler which is not really
>> Googlebot, rather than an impersonator running through GCE...
>>
>> -- Shimi
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From rabin at rabin.io  Wed May 21 01:26:02 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 01:26:02 +0300
Subject: Googlebot searching for ".../bin/en.jsp"
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BO1AVD+GBG4WVdwMF-BfKXJnW+vZJotoGSx33VEwNWdFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABKuJEDR+4fb8rV2K7Odk0tPAHdVztBXR4iRpHcuVm1oVsUpxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-m+3+W6W1XghS7o7PoJTOSD5bijUov=3w6jMz7WWt7Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEDx=3qdsTzM2XBqZ_x0Uw14e8iaApNgiz3GHw3yTmyvpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BO1AVD+GBG4WVdwMF-BfKXJnW+vZJotoGSx33VEwNWdFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEBBTL7tO-OhXH4LWLJTKzdCH1+WnqQZyXGa5ZdyjyBO9g@mail.gmail.com>

After searching the access log as well, i found out the reference to our
server came from one our older sites, after grepping the entire site i
found out that we actually do have links to *.jsp urls :(

Thank you.


*--Rabin*


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:55 AM, E.S. Rosenberg <esr at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:

> host 66.249.79.57
> 57.79.249.66.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer
> crawl-66-249-79-57.googlebot.com.
>
> This suggests that it is indeed googlebot, why should they put GCE on
> googlebot hosts, way too high a risk of resulting in blocked bots.
> I would guess that either
> - They were testing a new crawler that is messing up (likely, but less I
> think since it should/would do so locally first)
> - Some other site contains a link to the content you don't have or someone
> (intentionally) made a query of the google search engine which triggered
> the crawler trying said URI.
>
> Regards,
> Eliyahu - ?????
>
>
> 2014-05-20 12:14 GMT+03:00 Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io>:
>
>> Good point, thank you.
>>
>>
>> *-- Rabin*
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:23 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have installed fail2ban on one of my servers, and created a set of
>>>> rules to block some request the (from my point of view) looks like probing
>>>> attempts.
>>>>
>>>> One of the rules is to block on site, any request to *.jsp which i
>>>> don't have on this server.
>>>>
>>>> Today i got a mail about a blocked IP which belong to Google (based on
>>>> whois).
>>>> # whois 66.249.79.57
>>>>
>>>> can any one tell me, why Googlebot will search for something i don't
>>>> have any reference to in my site?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The ".." does look strange, I think Googlebot always use Canonical URLs
>>> in general...
>>>
>>> Just a note: The fact that there's no reference in your site (if that is
>>> indeed a fact...) - does NOT say that there isn't such a reference in any
>>> other site on the Internet...
>>>
>>> Note that Google also has GCE - I would assume the netblocks for GCE
>>> would also say "Google"... maybe it's a crawler which is not really
>>> Googlebot, rather than an impersonator running through GCE...
>>>
>>> -- Shimi
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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From hareldvd at gmail.com  Wed May 21 08:49:13 2014
From: hareldvd at gmail.com (David Harel)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 08:49:13 +0300
Subject: CPU Overheating Problem When Running 4 CPU Intensive Threads with
 Latest Untained Kernel
In-Reply-To: <20140519170806.GQ2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>
References: <CANy4znXdnqiVHbmMnzeo_HeXqhjgJg6U3xkzxSZvN65kfb5Kug@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wqdie4px.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAHTx_BNVUqZwhv-2F0smm95UH0a7eKNxYVs_U+++M7XgGjS3Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140519101923.1b4dade3@x120e>
 <20140519125523.62fe9bbe@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
 <20140519170806.GQ2552@lemon.cohens.org.il>
Message-ID: <CA+E_=OZ0xtx1ap_f1UiMqPt9+vS38fEFSEHsHP=NV6fbSpV7wA@mail.gmail.com>

I am on the business for over 30 years. At the time, we knew that the only
way to break hardware by any software was to set bad frequency to the
monitor.
Afaik the nice command can't reduce cpu usage. It only allows other
processes/threads, would there be any, to get more cpu. Still, if no other
process requiers cpu your cpu intensive tasks will get all that is left
available resulting in high frequdncies and heat.
I would guess that either the cpu mentioned is faulty or that Intel stopped
prodicing durable cpus.
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:55:23PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> Hi Efraim,
>
> On Mon, 19 May 2014 10:19:23 +0300
> Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Also, nice -19 is higher priority than nice 19.
> >
>
> No, it's not. When you run the "nice -19" it sets it to the lowest
possible
> priority. I see these processes in htop where the nice is set at 19 and I
> cannot lower it at all.

If nice is not enough for your process, ask it to be verynice:
http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/software/verynice/

"verynice is a nice(1)-like utility to throttle long running processes
beyond what can be achieved by nice(1), by repeatedly suspending and
resuming the process."

--
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend

_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Thu May 22 13:11:16 2014
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 13:11:16 +0300
Subject: twisted and python3
Message-ID: <CAM+3FtT1ai36XHQgO14PRMfO3EmMaj2t0cYrZqodqS-j2o9t7g@mail.gmail.com>

?Hi,

Can anyone out there comment on the state of twisted on python3?

We use python3, and we are considering twisted as a candidate platform to
develop a server framework. We have not tried anything yet, just mulling
possibilities at this point. While researching the topic multiple tidbits ?
?of concern came up, such as

?
http://twisted.readthedocs.org/en/latest/projects/core/howto/python3.html
http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/tags/releases/twisted-14.0.0/twisted/python/dist3.py

?etc.

If twisted in its current state is not well-supported on python3?
? we would prefer to drop it as a candidate early and concentrate on other
options. If problems are few and far between ?
?we will be willing to invest time in researching how much it will affect
our development. Twisted is a big anaconda, and we are not likely to use
more than some parts of it. This means that we'd like to?
? learn of really disqualifying issues ASAP.

Thanks a lot for any input,?


-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu May 22 13:40:23 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 20:40:23 +1000
Subject: twisted and python3
In-Reply-To: <CAM+3FtT1ai36XHQgO14PRMfO3EmMaj2t0cYrZqodqS-j2o9t7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM+3FtT1ai36XHQgO14PRMfO3EmMaj2t0cYrZqodqS-j2o9t7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WVYDPDxSidFiuzUF3T-U=8Gf7tuUBWsTjFTLtHv9-F-4Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not a Python Guru (you might be better off asking on Python-specific
forums), but from both working on contributing to a twisted-based
application (carbon cache - https://github.com/graphite-project/carbon) and
from talking to at least one person about this framework, it seems that
it's too complicated and still too limited.

You could end up writing more code to work around twisted limitations than
if you wrote your own simple server using standard Python (e.g.
https://docs.python.org/2/library/socketserver.html,
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/462525/Simple-HTTP-Server-and-Client-in-Python
).

My suggestion - beyond checking its status for the Python version you want,
have a spike (http://www.techopedia.com/definition/9503/spike) and see what
the code you come up with looks like and whether you like it.

--Amos


On 22 May 2014 20:11, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:

>
> ?Hi,
>
> Can anyone out there comment on the state of twisted on python3?
>
> We use python3, and we are considering twisted as a candidate platform to
> develop a server framework. We have not tried anything yet, just mulling
> possibilities at this point. While researching the topic multiple tidbits ?
> ?of concern came up, such as
>
> ?
> http://twisted.readthedocs.org/en/latest/projects/core/howto/python3.html
>
> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/tags/releases/twisted-14.0.0/twisted/python/dist3.py
>
> ?etc.
>
> If twisted in its current state is not well-supported on python3?
> ? we would prefer to drop it as a candidate early and concentrate on other
> options. If problems are few and far between ?
> ?we will be willing to invest time in researching how much it will affect
> our development. Twisted is a big anaconda, and we are not likely to use
> more than some parts of it. This means that we'd like to?
> ? learn of really disqualifying issues ASAP.
>
> Thanks a lot for any input,?
>
>
> --
> Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
 [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From mkriheli at gmail.com  Thu May 22 18:35:06 2014
From: mkriheli at gmail.com (Meir Kriheli)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 18:35:06 +0300
Subject: twisted and python3
In-Reply-To: <CAM+3FtT1ai36XHQgO14PRMfO3EmMaj2t0cYrZqodqS-j2o9t7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM+3FtT1ai36XHQgO14PRMfO3EmMaj2t0cYrZqodqS-j2o9t7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANDudSdPhDHMceeD_3cv-=C8JE8_ojAoQJu9jBDC1K4Cq5j0nA@mail.gmail.com>

It's seems they still have some way to go:
http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/milestone/Python-3.x

Which kind of services your server should provide ? This may affect the
choice of framework.

Note that in python 3.4 asyncio (a.k.a Tulip) got integrated into the
standard library, it's available for 3.3 as a separate module. Libraries
for asyncio are growing, see here if there's something that might fit your
needs:

http://asyncio.org/

Still far from Twisted's multitude of available protocols though.

Cheers


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:

>
> ?Hi,
>
> Can anyone out there comment on the state of twisted on python3?
>
> We use python3, and we are considering twisted as a candidate platform to
> develop a server framework. We have not tried anything yet, just mulling
> possibilities at this point. While researching the topic multiple tidbits ?
> ?of concern came up, such as
>
> ?
> http://twisted.readthedocs.org/en/latest/projects/core/howto/python3.html
>
> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/tags/releases/twisted-14.0.0/twisted/python/dist3.py
>
> ?etc.
>
> If twisted in its current state is not well-supported on python3?
> ? we would prefer to drop it as a candidate early and concentrate on other
> options. If problems are few and far between ?
> ?we will be willing to invest time in researching how much it will affect
> our development. Twisted is a big anaconda, and we are not likely to use
> more than some parts of it. This means that we'd like to?
> ? learn of really disqualifying issues ASAP.
>
> Thanks a lot for any input,?
>
>
> --
> Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
Meir Kriheli
http://meirkriheli.com
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From eli at billauer.co.il  Sat May 24 20:31:45 2014
From: eli at billauer.co.il (Eli Billauer)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 20:31:45 +0300
Subject: [HAIFUX LECTURE] Managed Resource Allocation in Linux Device Drivers
 -- Eli Billauer
Message-ID: <5380D781.3020701@billauer.co.il>

On Monday, May 26th at 18:30, Haifux will gather to hear a talk by Eli 
Billauer:

    The Right Way: Managed Resource Allocation in Linux Device Drivers

Download the slides: http://www.haifux.org/lectures/323/haifux-devres.pdf

Abstract

Linux device drivers typically call kmalloc(), request_mem_region(),  
ioremap() and other kernel API functions to obtain resources. Failing to 
release them correctly when the device is removed leads to resource 
leaks and possibly oopses. Even worse, if the initialization fails in 
the middle, the allocation must be unrolled, which is typically done 
with goto statements which are bug-prone.

The Device Managed Resources (devres, devm) API was added to the kernel 
in 2007 (2.6.21) to solve this problem: The driver is only required to 
use special functions to allocate its resources, but not to release 
them. The kernel is responsible to free the resources when the device is 
removed or if it fails to initialize. This doesn?t just make the code 
shorter, but ensures that the removal of the device takes place correctly.

This method makes so much sense, that it isn?t clear how it?s not 
mandatory. In fact, many essential allocation function don?t have a 
managed counterpart in the kernel, which shows that this issue is quite 
neglected.

Aside from preaching, this talk will focus on showing code snippets and 
examples to clarify how this works. Subjects to be covered include

* How to use managed resources
* How to free managed resources manually, in particular unrolling a 
partial initialization sequence (?Undo?)
* How to add custom function callbacks for specific rollback tasks
* How to write a custom managed resource allocator
* (maybe) The special functions for PCI

=================================================================

We meet in Taub building, room 6. For instructions see:
http://www.haifux.org/where.html

Attendance is free, and you are all invited!

==================================================================
Future lectures:

There are no scheduled lectures.


==================================================================

We are always interested in hearing your talks and ideas. If you wish to 
give a talk, hold a discussion, or just plan some event haifux might be 
interested in, please contact us at webmaster at haifux.org

-- 
Web: http://www.billauer.co.il



From gabor at szabgab.com  Sun May 25 22:20:40 2014
From: gabor at szabgab.com (Gabor Szabo)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 22:20:40 +0300
Subject: OSDC-Modiin meeting: 27 Years with GNU Awk
Message-ID: <CABe4FJC92UwNw3ajBsCGdA7iE_hS9ecC0sXkruXMMba_koLeng@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

The Open Source Developers Club (OSDC) Modiin
has been meeting about once a month in the last 3 months.

The next meeting is going to be on Tuesday 27th May.
We are going to hear Aharon Robbins telling his story with GNU Awk
that he has been maintaining for 27 years.

The meeting starts at 19:00 in the offices of MESH in Modiin
for more information please check http://osdc.org.il/modiin/gawk

regards
  Gabor


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 26 10:11:54 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>

this is partially off topic

some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL


i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?


10x
erez.


From rabin at rabin.io  Mon May 26 10:18:05 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:18:05 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEAm4JtVzjsjuFT+38X=fyf+OAZFT7evCrL6nHP65oSL2w@mail.gmail.com>

I think it's the same/some implementation of Google chrome to check if you
are behind a proxy and have access to the internet.

https://mikewest.org/2012/02/chrome-connects-to-three-random-domains-at-startup


*--Rabin*


On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> this is partially off topic
>
> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>
>
> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>
>
> 10x
> erez.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From yba at tkos.co.il  Mon May 26 10:23:01 2014
From: yba at tkos.co.il (Jonathan Ben Avraham)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:23:01 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>

Hi Erez,
No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a router 
feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router 
designer develops their own feature.

  - yba


On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
> 
> this is partially off topic
>
> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>
>
> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>
>
> 10x
> erez.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>

-- 
  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
=}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 26 10:26:21 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:21 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEAm4JtVzjsjuFT+38X=fyf+OAZFT7evCrL6nHP65oSL2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEAm4JtVzjsjuFT+38X=fyf+OAZFT7evCrL6nHP65oSL2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wm_3v7Qq_EAT+bRuzxo7VsvzvPDTJJ6THXFD3VDgD7pKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> I think it's the same/some implementation of Google chrome to check if you
> are behind a proxy and have access to the internet.
>
> https://mikewest.org/2012/02/chrome-connects-to-three-random-domains-at-startup

Thanks, i'll look into this. however this is done without me opening a
browser or searching
i just select a wireless network, and immediatly i get a notification
>
> --
> Rabin
>
>
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> this is partially off topic
>>
>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>>
>>
>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>>
>>
>> 10x
>> erez.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 26 10:26:52 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il> wrote:
> Hi Erez,
> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a router
> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router designer
> develops their own feature.

can you elaborate ?
>
>  - yba
>
>
> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>
>>
>> this is partially off topic
>>
>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>>
>>
>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>>
>>
>> 10x
>> erez.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
> --
>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm


From yba at tkos.co.il  Mon May 26 10:44:35 2014
From: yba at tkos.co.il (Jonathan Ben Avraham)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:44:35 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>

Hi Erez,
For each AP you need to maintain a table of client connections that are 
"accepted", meaning that the client has presented some type of credential 
or payment or whatever.

Packets from clients that are not accepted are routed to some 
authentication or payment gateway, with possible port translation.

The accepted client table does not have to be on the AP itself. It is 
usually held in a RADIUS server upstream. The authentication gateway also 
does not need to be on the AP itself. It can be upstream and does not have 
to be the same as the RADIUS server. You can also have more than one 
payment gateway but use the same RADIUS server.

That, in a nutshell is how it is done. There's a lot of netfilter/iptables 
smoke an mirrors going on on the AP.

  - yba


On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
> 
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il> wrote:
>> Hi Erez,
>> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a router
>> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router designer
>> develops their own feature.
>
> can you elaborate ?
>>
>>  - yba
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>>
>>>
>>> this is partially off topic
>>>
>>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
>>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
>>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>>>
>>>
>>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>>>
>>>
>>> 10x
>>> erez.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>
>> --
>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm
>

-- 
  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
=}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 26 11:51:03 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 11:51:03 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>

thanks,

however, that not what i ment

i was only asking how it generated a notification on my phone without
me opening a browser
i do not want to restrict access to anything

thanks,
erez.
On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il> wrote:
> Hi Erez,
> For each AP you need to maintain a table of client connections that are
> "accepted", meaning that the client has presented some type of credential or
> payment or whatever.
>
> Packets from clients that are not accepted are routed to some authentication
> or payment gateway, with possible port translation.
>
> The accepted client table does not have to be on the AP itself. It is
> usually held in a RADIUS server upstream. The authentication gateway also
> does not need to be on the AP itself. It can be upstream and does not have
> to be the same as the RADIUS server. You can also have more than one payment
> gateway but use the same RADIUS server.
>
> That, in a nutshell is how it is done. There's a lot of netfilter/iptables
> smoke an mirrors going on on the AP.
>
>
>  - yba
>
>
> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Erez,
>>> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a router
>>> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router
>>> designer
>>> develops their own feature.
>>
>>
>> can you elaborate ?
>>>
>>>
>>>  - yba
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
>>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> this is partially off topic
>>>>
>>>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
>>>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
>>>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10x
>>>> erez.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
>>> Systems
>>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
>>> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il
>>> skype:benavrhm
>>
>>
>
> --
>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm


From rabin at rabin.io  Mon May 26 12:29:10 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 12:29:10 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEArakszbt-Do793TgjwrbBAjyYuv4nt3mB0vVBzqq1EJQ@mail.gmail.com>

the code is in the first answer

>
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13958614/how-to-check-for-unrestricted-internet-access-captive-portal-detection


*--Rabin*


On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> thanks,
>
> however, that not what i ment
>
> i was only asking how it generated a notification on my phone without
> me opening a browser
> i do not want to restrict access to anything
>
> thanks,
> erez.
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> wrote:
> > Hi Erez,
> > For each AP you need to maintain a table of client connections that are
> > "accepted", meaning that the client has presented some type of
> credential or
> > payment or whatever.
> >
> > Packets from clients that are not accepted are routed to some
> authentication
> > or payment gateway, with possible port translation.
> >
> > The accepted client table does not have to be on the AP itself. It is
> > usually held in a RADIUS server upstream. The authentication gateway also
> > does not need to be on the AP itself. It can be upstream and does not
> have
> > to be the same as the RADIUS server. You can also have more than one
> payment
> > gateway but use the same RADIUS server.
> >
> > That, in a nutshell is how it is done. There's a lot of
> netfilter/iptables
> > smoke an mirrors going on on the AP.
> >
> >
> >  - yba
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
> >> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
> >> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> >> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> >> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Erez,
> >>> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a
> router
> >>> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router
> >>> designer
> >>> develops their own feature.
> >>
> >>
> >> can you elaborate ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  - yba
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
> >>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> >>>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> this is partially off topic
> >>>>
> >>>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
> >>>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
> >>>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 10x
> >>>> erez.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Linux-il mailing list
> >>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> >>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
> >>> Systems
> >>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
> >>> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
> >>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il
> >>> skype:benavrhm
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> >  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
> Systems
> > =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
> > mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.ilskype:benavrhm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 26 12:50:20 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 12:50:20 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEArakszbt-Do793TgjwrbBAjyYuv4nt3mB0vVBzqq1EJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEArakszbt-Do793TgjwrbBAjyYuv4nt3mB0vVBzqq1EJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wn7Mx6npyaTk6SCbKr8QQAcb+jcopOPt-QHN1t_vXTEmQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> the code is in the first answer
>
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13958614/how-to-check-for-unrestricted-internet-access-captive-portal-detection

nice,
now i know the term is called "walled garden" or "captive portal"

do if i understand correctly,
android expect a captive portal to return a redirect, and so generates
a notification with the redirect url ?

>
> --
> Rabin
>
>
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> however, that not what i ment
>>
>> i was only asking how it generated a notification on my phone without
>> me opening a browser
>> i do not want to restrict access to anything
>>
>> thanks,
>> erez.
>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Erez,
>> > For each AP you need to maintain a table of client connections that are
>> > "accepted", meaning that the client has presented some type of
>> > credential or
>> > payment or whatever.
>> >
>> > Packets from clients that are not accepted are routed to some
>> > authentication
>> > or payment gateway, with possible port translation.
>> >
>> > The accepted client table does not have to be on the AP itself. It is
>> > usually held in a RADIUS server upstream. The authentication gateway
>> > also
>> > does not need to be on the AP itself. It can be upstream and does not
>> > have
>> > to be the same as the RADIUS server. You can also have more than one
>> > payment
>> > gateway but use the same RADIUS server.
>> >
>> > That, in a nutshell is how it is done. There's a lot of
>> > netfilter/iptables
>> > smoke an mirrors going on on the AP.
>> >
>> >
>> >  - yba
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>> >
>> >> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
>> >> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>> >> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>> >> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>> >> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open
>> >> wifi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Erez,
>> >>> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a
>> >>> router
>> >>> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router
>> >>> designer
>> >>> develops their own feature.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> can you elaborate ?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>  - yba
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
>> >>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>> >>>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>> >>>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> this is partially off topic
>> >>>>
>> >>>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone
>> >>>> (android)
>> >>>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
>> >>>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 10x
>> >>>> erez.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Linux-il mailing list
>> >>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> >>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
>> >>> Systems
>> >>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
>> >>> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>> >>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il
>> >>> skype:benavrhm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> >  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
>> > Systems
>> > =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
>> > ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>> > mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il
>> > skype:benavrhm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


From erez0001 at gmail.com  Mon May 26 12:51:21 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 12:51:21 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wkTwxWyf+Sy7pCYwCY-+_aj4fq-u8FaU5N=ruUSOPbpWA@mail.gmail.com>

Jonathan, if we are talking about walled garden/captive portal
implementation under linux, i'll take the opportunity to ask something
related.

how does the AP redirect every web access to the login page (for "non
accepted" clients)
i guess using a transparent proxy with a redirection page, am i correct ?
if i am correct, i would like to know:
1. does the AP allow real DNS access, or does it return the IP of the
AP for every dns query. (and if so what about DNS cache ?)
2. what "webserver/proxy" is used to return the same redirect answer
to every requested url


On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il> wrote:
> Hi Erez,
> For each AP you need to maintain a table of client connections that are
> "accepted", meaning that the client has presented some type of credential or
> payment or whatever.
>
> Packets from clients that are not accepted are routed to some authentication
> or payment gateway, with possible port translation.
>
> The accepted client table does not have to be on the AP itself. It is
> usually held in a RADIUS server upstream. The authentication gateway also
> does not need to be on the AP itself. It can be upstream and does not have
> to be the same as the RADIUS server. You can also have more than one payment
> gateway but use the same RADIUS server.
>
> That, in a nutshell is how it is done. There's a lot of netfilter/iptables
> smoke an mirrors going on on the AP.
>
>
>  - yba
>
>
> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Erez,
>>> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a router
>>> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router
>>> designer
>>> develops their own feature.
>>
>>
>> can you elaborate ?
>>>
>>>
>>>  - yba
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
>>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> this is partially off topic
>>>>
>>>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
>>>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
>>>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10x
>>>> erez.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
>>> Systems
>>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
>>> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il
>>> skype:benavrhm
>>
>>
>
> --
>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon May 26 13:24:09 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 13:24:09 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BPQ255r+-s=wq5eCExk-=VHxF9Xi-GFdVnQjjKrRtjmzw@mail.gmail.com>

re:all
You may not do anything but your system (whether it is android or a desktop
os) tries to ascertain whether or not it has internet connectivity or just
LAN, if it tries to say GET google.com:80 it will get a HTTP/30x from the
wireless gateway redirecting it to a payment/gateway-rules page, since it
"knows" that google.com or whatever it tried to connect to should return a
200 and can read the returned 30x header displaying a notification is then
childs-play.

Regards,
Eliyahu - ?????



2014-05-26 11:51 GMT+03:00 Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>:

> thanks,
>
> however, that not what i ment
>
> i was only asking how it generated a notification on my phone without
> me opening a browser
> i do not want to restrict access to anything
>
> thanks,
> erez.
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> wrote:
> > Hi Erez,
> > For each AP you need to maintain a table of client connections that are
> > "accepted", meaning that the client has presented some type of
> credential or
> > payment or whatever.
> >
> > Packets from clients that are not accepted are routed to some
> authentication
> > or payment gateway, with possible port translation.
> >
> > The accepted client table does not have to be on the AP itself. It is
> > usually held in a RADIUS server upstream. The authentication gateway also
> > does not need to be on the AP itself. It can be upstream and does not
> have
> > to be the same as the RADIUS server. You can also have more than one
> payment
> > gateway but use the same RADIUS server.
> >
> > That, in a nutshell is how it is done. There's a lot of
> netfilter/iptables
> > smoke an mirrors going on on the AP.
> >
> >
> >  - yba
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
> >> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
> >> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> >> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> >> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Erez,
> >>> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a
> router
> >>> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router
> >>> designer
> >>> develops their own feature.
> >>
> >>
> >> can you elaborate ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  - yba
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
> >>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> >>>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> this is partially off topic
> >>>>
> >>>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
> >>>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
> >>>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 10x
> >>>> erez.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Linux-il mailing list
> >>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> >>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
> >>> Systems
> >>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
> >>> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
> >>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il
> >>> skype:benavrhm
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> >  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
> Systems
> > =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
> > mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.ilskype:benavrhm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From yba at tkos.co.il  Mon May 26 14:17:28 2014
From: yba at tkos.co.il (Jonathan Ben Avraham)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 14:17:28 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wkTwxWyf+Sy7pCYwCY-+_aj4fq-u8FaU5N=ruUSOPbpWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wkTwxWyf+Sy7pCYwCY-+_aj4fq-u8FaU5N=ruUSOPbpWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261348520.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>

Hi Erez,
In the implementation that I worked on, we used iptables to route 
unauthenticated HTTP to a proxy (Hughes libHTTPd) on the AP which then 
presented the client with a page from some upstream payment gateway. Once 
the client was authenticated, we changed the iptables rules to allow 
direct routing of all packets. I am not so proud of this design. It was 
a hack that we slapped together quickly. You might 
be better served by looking at http://www.chillispot.org/.

  - yba


On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 12:51:21 +0300
> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
> 
> Jonathan, if we are talking about walled garden/captive portal
> implementation under linux, i'll take the opportunity to ask something
> related.
>
> how does the AP redirect every web access to the login page (for "non
> accepted" clients)
> i guess using a transparent proxy with a redirection page, am i correct ?
> if i am correct, i would like to know:
> 1. does the AP allow real DNS access, or does it return the IP of the
> AP for every dns query. (and if so what about DNS cache ?)
> 2. what "webserver/proxy" is used to return the same redirect answer
> to every requested url
>
>
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il> wrote:
>> Hi Erez,
>> For each AP you need to maintain a table of client connections that are
>> "accepted", meaning that the client has presented some type of credential or
>> payment or whatever.
>>
>> Packets from clients that are not accepted are routed to some authentication
>> or payment gateway, with possible port translation.
>>
>> The accepted client table does not have to be on the AP itself. It is
>> usually held in a RADIUS server upstream. The authentication gateway also
>> does not need to be on the AP itself. It can be upstream and does not have
>> to be the same as the RADIUS server. You can also have more than one payment
>> gateway but use the same RADIUS server.
>>
>> That, in a nutshell is how it is done. There's a lot of netfilter/iptables
>> smoke an mirrors going on on the AP.
>>
>>
>>  - yba
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:26:52 +0300
>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>>> To: Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>>> Cc: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>> Subject: Re: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Ben Avraham <yba at tkos.co.il>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Erez,
>>>> No. The ability to configure a payment/authentication gateway is a router
>>>> feature. I worked on this feature for Alvarion's WBSn. Every router
>>>> designer
>>>> develops their own feature.
>>>
>>>
>>> can you elaborate ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  - yba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2014, Erez D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 10:11:54 +0300
>>>>> From: Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>>>> Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> this is partially off topic
>>>>>
>>>>> some times when i connect to open wifi on aitports, my phone (android)
>>>>> gives me a notification of a site i need to go to, and if i click on
>>>>> it, it opens a browser with a predefined URL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i was wandering - is that part of an RFC or standard ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 10x
>>>>> erez.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open
>>>> Systems
>>>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba")
>>>> ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>>>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il
>>>> skype:benavrhm
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
>> =}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>> mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm
>

-- 
  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
=}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm


From guy1gold at gmail.com  Tue May 27 00:15:14 2014
From: guy1gold at gmail.com (Guy Gold)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 17:15:14 -0400
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ72QGppbkxoZhMfqBzYNWwy1HO5DFLM0m-nOrjPQy0_B0R8A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:51 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> however, that not what i ment
> i was only asking how it generated a notification on my phone without
> me opening a browser
>
>
Hi Erez,
At the risk of needlessly reiterating some detail:

In cases I've encountered, the alerts seemed to be  OS generated, (done by
OS rather by the site/AP you connected to).
Microsoft does the same thing with the "additional credentials may be
required" pop-up on its Windows OS.

The OS "gets" the fact that an IP address was acquired on an interface, but
- no full 'www' access is available, rather an access to a single web-page
(i.e a captive portal).  The alert is helpful for folks who assume that (IP
address == www access) at any time, and try to place a skype call, or pull
email, and get frustrated with 'it not working'.
I've configured a Captive portal on a proprietary system, not long ago, for
deployment, so I cannot be 100% sure if there's any type of messaging from
the AP to the OS informing it that it's captivated, or, as I mentioned, the
entire wisdom in within the OS' network stack.



-- 
Guy Gold
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Tue May 27 02:25:43 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 09:25:43 +1000
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CALQ72QGppbkxoZhMfqBzYNWwy1HO5DFLM0m-nOrjPQy0_B0R8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQ72QGppbkxoZhMfqBzYNWwy1HO5DFLM0m-nOrjPQy0_B0R8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WWuvrSeuXxHADbeXGRa5n3jSafA0mWR=BbBHCp8YUeJ4w@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I think we got this. I'm not the OP bit I wonder what can an AP admin
do to configure it in a way which triggers this OS smarts on the client.
On 27 May 2014 07:16, "Guy Gold" <guy1gold at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:51 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> however, that not what i ment
>> i was only asking how it generated a notification on my phone without
>> me opening a browser
>>
>>
> Hi Erez,
> At the risk of needlessly reiterating some detail:
>
> In cases I've encountered, the alerts seemed to be  OS generated, (done by
> OS rather by the site/AP you connected to).
> Microsoft does the same thing with the "additional credentials may be
> required" pop-up on its Windows OS.
>
> The OS "gets" the fact that an IP address was acquired on an interface,
> but - no full 'www' access is available, rather an access to a single
> web-page (i.e a captive portal).  The alert is helpful for folks who assume
> that (IP address == www access) at any time, and try to place a skype call,
> or pull email, and get frustrated with 'it not working'.
> I've configured a Captive portal on a proprietary system, not long ago,
> for deployment, so I cannot be 100% sure if there's any type of messaging
> from the AP to the OS informing it that it's captivated, or, as I
> mentioned, the entire wisdom in within the OS' network stack.
>
>
>
> --
> Guy Gold
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Tue May 27 04:04:39 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 04:04:39 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WWuvrSeuXxHADbeXGRa5n3jSafA0mWR=BbBHCp8YUeJ4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQ72QGppbkxoZhMfqBzYNWwy1HO5DFLM0m-nOrjPQy0_B0R8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWuvrSeuXxHADbeXGRa5n3jSafA0mWR=BbBHCp8YUeJ4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BMHaW6Y2HF7R8cRtS4F4EJEmtT4RV_za_uwS+rePO571g@mail.gmail.com>

2014-05-27 2:25 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:

> Yes I think we got this. I'm not the OP bit I wonder what can an AP admin
> do to configure it in a way which triggers this OS smarts on the client.
>
Make sure you aren't whitelisting the pages/domains used to verify the
connectivity level...

> On 27 May 2014 07:16, "Guy Gold" <guy1gold at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:51 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> however, that not what i ment
>>> i was only asking how it generated a notification on my phone without
>>> me opening a browser
>>>
>>>
>> Hi Erez,
>> At the risk of needlessly reiterating some detail:
>>
>> In cases I've encountered, the alerts seemed to be  OS generated, (done
>> by OS rather by the site/AP you connected to).
>> Microsoft does the same thing with the "additional credentials may be
>> required" pop-up on its Windows OS.
>>
>> The OS "gets" the fact that an IP address was acquired on an interface,
>> but - no full 'www' access is available, rather an access to a single
>> web-page (i.e a captive portal).  The alert is helpful for folks who assume
>> that (IP address == www access) at any time, and try to place a skype call,
>> or pull email, and get frustrated with 'it not working'.
>> I've configured a Captive portal on a proprietary system, not long ago,
>> for deployment, so I cannot be 100% sure if there's any type of messaging
>> from the AP to the OS informing it that it's captivated, or, as I
>> mentioned, the entire wisdom in within the OS' network stack.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Guy Gold
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From guy1gold at gmail.com  Tue May 27 05:56:29 2014
From: guy1gold at gmail.com (Guy Gold)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 22:56:29 -0400
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WWuvrSeuXxHADbeXGRa5n3jSafA0mWR=BbBHCp8YUeJ4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQ72QGppbkxoZhMfqBzYNWwy1HO5DFLM0m-nOrjPQy0_B0R8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWuvrSeuXxHADbeXGRa5n3jSafA0mWR=BbBHCp8YUeJ4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ72QGZc2ST7YHjnQV=VNh6z2H23YcOswYRivBhF7VPp4S48w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>wrote:

> Yes I think we got this. I'm not the OP bit I wonder what can an AP admin
> do to configure it in a way which triggers this OS smarts on the client.
>
At least, on my part, configuring our WiFi AP concentrator, I did nothing
in order to make that happen, I configured the captive portal web page, but
not more than that, which leads my believe it's an OS feature, rather then
AP feature. (just my opinion though, no proof).
The unit in production is an Enterasys C-25.

As for how the Captive works, in our case,  it allows any client :53
traffic, and blocks any other traffic,  also, it  resolves  any DNS query
to to its own captive portal address, once a client (identified by MAC)
authenticates, it then  stops the forced resolution to its own address,
and  lets :53 and all  traffic through, to "real" Name Servers and the www.



-- 
Guy Gold
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Tue May 27 08:46:09 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 08:46:09 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CALQ72QGZc2ST7YHjnQV=VNh6z2H23YcOswYRivBhF7VPp4S48w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQ72QGppbkxoZhMfqBzYNWwy1HO5DFLM0m-nOrjPQy0_B0R8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWuvrSeuXxHADbeXGRa5n3jSafA0mWR=BbBHCp8YUeJ4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQ72QGZc2ST7YHjnQV=VNh6z2H23YcOswYRivBhF7VPp4S48w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wmRTaA1abptfr-oOdwD_izNPrwjdn1TaAEseE_7UMAgpg@mail.gmail.com>

Do you know what linux software can be used to proxy dns for some
clients, resolve everything to a predetermained IP to other clients ?

can dnsmasq do that ? other open software ?

On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Guy Gold <guy1gold at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I think we got this. I'm not the OP bit I wonder what can an AP admin
>> do to configure it in a way which triggers this OS smarts on the client.
>
> At least, on my part, configuring our WiFi AP concentrator, I did nothing in
> order to make that happen, I configured the captive portal web page, but not
> more than that, which leads my believe it's an OS feature, rather then AP
> feature. (just my opinion though, no proof).
> The unit in production is an Enterasys C-25.
>
> As for how the Captive works, in our case,  it allows any client :53
> traffic, and blocks any other traffic,  also, it  resolves  any DNS query to
> to its own captive portal address, once a client (identified by MAC)
> authenticates, it then  stops the forced resolution to its own address,  and
> lets :53 and all  traffic through, to "real" Name Servers and the www.
>
>
>
> --
> Guy Gold
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Tue May 27 10:15:02 2014
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 10:15:02 +0300
Subject: partly OT: notification of url when connecting to open wifi
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wmRTaA1abptfr-oOdwD_izNPrwjdn1TaAEseE_7UMAgpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnmfR8tm1S6JedmmKQZ38p3bKokTi3QYeFP9OKzXM_pFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261019510.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3w=ZTWstNQKUGj8jJWSYqUAP9ZhXK5es5y+BJyV3abXTSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405261036040.6339@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <CAMUp3wnAuwGzWoziFa5MjCkk7xXYqGjGL_rdWkm8EDUEB=nEDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQ72QGppbkxoZhMfqBzYNWwy1HO5DFLM0m-nOrjPQy0_B0R8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWuvrSeuXxHADbeXGRa5n3jSafA0mWR=BbBHCp8YUeJ4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQ72QGZc2ST7YHjnQV=VNh6z2H23YcOswYRivBhF7VPp4S48w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMUp3wmRTaA1abptfr-oOdwD_izNPrwjdn1TaAEseE_7UMAgpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BPNpMCA3EsoNhWJPAcqSw6+tpwc2sz_DZ6geU_CSjPWoA@mail.gmail.com>

If you want a captive portal then as suggested above chillispot or
coovachilli seem to be your answer (though both projects seem to be fairly
dead).

The wikipedia article on captive portals lists a few distros that may be
useful to you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_portal


2014-05-27 8:46 GMT+03:00 Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com>:

> Do you know what linux software can be used to proxy dns for some
> clients, resolve everything to a predetermained IP to other clients ?
>
> can dnsmasq do that ? other open software ?
>
> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Guy Gold <guy1gold at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes I think we got this. I'm not the OP bit I wonder what can an AP
> admin
> >> do to configure it in a way which triggers this OS smarts on the client.
> >
> > At least, on my part, configuring our WiFi AP concentrator, I did
> nothing in
> > order to make that happen, I configured the captive portal web page, but
> not
> > more than that, which leads my believe it's an OS feature, rather then AP
> > feature. (just my opinion though, no proof).
> > The unit in production is an Enterasys C-25.
> >
> > As for how the Captive works, in our case,  it allows any client :53
> > traffic, and blocks any other traffic,  also, it  resolves  any DNS
> query to
> > to its own captive portal address, once a client (identified by MAC)
> > authenticates, it then  stops the forced resolution to its own address,
>  and
> > lets :53 and all  traffic through, to "real" Name Servers and the www.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Guy Gold
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From danshimsh at gmail.com  Tue May 27 21:43:27 2014
From: danshimsh at gmail.com (Dan Shimshoni)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 21:43:27 +0300
Subject: Detecting whether a network interface is an SRIOV nic
Message-ID: <CACuRQ2JS0ioOmOyi=NokXQ67AWR+o8BpmNkKjTkq94mppzM2Vg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Is there a way to detecting whether a network interface is an SRIOV nic
in a given machine (by some userspace command )?

To be more specific:
I know of course that you can find the name of the driver and google for
its feature, but is there some userspace tool which can check it ?

Regards,
Dans
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From baruch at tkos.co.il  Tue May 27 22:17:37 2014
From: baruch at tkos.co.il (Baruch Siach)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 22:17:37 +0300
Subject: Detecting whether a network interface is an SRIOV nic
In-Reply-To: <CACuRQ2JS0ioOmOyi=NokXQ67AWR+o8BpmNkKjTkq94mppzM2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACuRQ2JS0ioOmOyi=NokXQ67AWR+o8BpmNkKjTkq94mppzM2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140527191737.GF20069@tarshish>

HI Dan,

On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 09:43:27PM +0300, Dan Shimshoni wrote:
> Is there a way to detecting whether a network interface is an SRIOV nic
> in a given machine (by some userspace command )?
> 
> To be more specific:
> I know of course that you can find the name of the driver and google for
> its feature, but is there some userspace tool which can check it ?

According to Documentation/PCI/pci-iov-howto.txt newer SR-IOV supporting 
drivers should have a sriov_numvfs sysfs node under 
/sys/bus/pci/devices/<DOMAIN:BUS:DEVICE.FUNCTION>/. The presence of this node 
is surely and indication that the device supports SR-IOV.

baruch

-- 
     http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
   - baruch at tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -