From vassiliI at tarunz.org  Fri Sep  5 06:23:54 2014
From: vassiliI at tarunz.org (Vassilii Khachaturov)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 06:23:54 +0300
Subject: terminal emulator
In-Reply-To: <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140828151306.1140515f@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6v1pYNEOdcrwHn0C4szyXBwgyuKP7J56NQ70HngfuNaJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140828180604.1cf327c1@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54092CCA.6070101@tarunz.org>


konsole advanced option have a checkmark (that used to be OFF by default 
in early UTF-8 adoption days, and is nowadays ON by default) that 
triggers RTL rendering of Hebrew.


On 28.08.2014 18:23, Yedidyah Bar David wrote:
> 2014-08-28 18:06 GMT+03:00 Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com 
> <mailto:efraim.flashner at gmail.com>>:
>
>     tilda shows up left-to-right with hebrew letters, mlterm shows up
>     right-to-left with boxes.  All on debian sid.
>     https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7048321/tilda.jpg
>     https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7048321/mlterm.jpg
>
>
> I now verified that konsole also shows hebrew right-to-left.
> You should probably configure mlterm (ctrl-rightclick) to use some 
> other font.
>
> I personally use both xterm and mlterm with a very old raster (pcf) 
> font I found somewhere a very long time ago, don't remember anymore 
> where, and tweaked a bit since. I don't mind sharing it, but any 
> modern vector font will probably look better.
> -- 
> Didi
>

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From dotancohen at gmail.com  Fri Sep  5 09:27:08 2014
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:27:08 +0300
Subject: terminal emulator
In-Reply-To: <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140828151306.1140515f@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6v1pYNEOdcrwHn0C4szyXBwgyuKP7J56NQ70HngfuNaJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140828180604.1cf327c1@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKDXFkOU0EbDjP3imrv3tD18P=s1_+BsYvckV0zkMeO-9df8Jg@mail.gmail.com>

I can confirm that Konsole works out of the box in Kubuntu 14.04:

$ touch ????.txt
$ ls
????.txt
$ vim ????.txt
$ cat ????.txt
????, ????

Note that VIM did have some trouble with the RTL, however.


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Yedidyah Bar David
<linux-il at didi.bardavid.org> wrote:
> 2014-08-28 18:06 GMT+03:00 Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com>:
>>
>> tilda shows up left-to-right with hebrew letters, mlterm shows up
>> right-to-left with boxes.  All on debian sid.
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7048321/tilda.jpg
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7048321/mlterm.jpg
>
>
> I now verified that konsole also shows hebrew right-to-left.
> You should probably configure mlterm (ctrl-rightclick) to use some other
> font.
>
> I personally use both xterm and mlterm with a very old raster (pcf) font I
> found somewhere a very long time ago, don't remember anymore where, and
> tweaked a bit since. I don't mind sharing it, but any modern vector font
> will probably look better.
> --
> Didi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com


From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com  Fri Sep  5 15:02:59 2014
From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:02:59 +0300
Subject: (OT - but I don't know who to ask) - Android tablet charger
In-Reply-To: <CAKDXFkOU0EbDjP3imrv3tD18P=s1_+BsYvckV0zkMeO-9df8Jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140828151306.1140515f@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6v1pYNEOdcrwHn0C4szyXBwgyuKP7J56NQ70HngfuNaJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140828180604.1cf327c1@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKDXFkOU0EbDjP3imrv3tD18P=s1_+BsYvckV0zkMeO-9df8Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140905150259.23469cb8@shlomo1.solomon>

I have 2 no name Android tablets. Both are model T271. One is labeled
Muller and the other Masimo.

I want to get a spare charger. The outside dimension of the connector
is 2.5 millimeters. On e-bay, I see lots of chargers that have a 2.5
millimeter connector, but the inside pin dimension is 0.7 OR 0.8. I've
tried to measure the inside pin with a caliper, but I can't be sure
which size I need.

BTW, the plastic is yellow, but I have no idea if this means anything.


-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Sent by Claws Mail 3.9.0 - KDE 4.10.5 - LINUX Mageia 3



From mordbe0 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  7 09:20:27 2014
From: mordbe0 at gmail.com (Mord Behar)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 09:20:27 +0300
Subject: (OT - but I don't know who to ask) - Android tablet charger
In-Reply-To: <20140905150259.23469cb8@shlomo1.solomon>
References: <20140828151306.1140515f@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6v1pYNEOdcrwHn0C4szyXBwgyuKP7J56NQ70HngfuNaJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140828180604.1cf327c1@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKDXFkOU0EbDjP3imrv3tD18P=s1_+BsYvckV0zkMeO-9df8Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140905150259.23469cb8@shlomo1.solomon>
Message-ID: <CAJzkJxG4VkfsVyzymAJ4+ih=nwHo=wC_aDGJ8PpPTvvZ-hjdAw@mail.gmail.com>

You not only need the proper dimensions but also the correct voltage,
amperage and direction (not sure what to call that last one).
Look on your charger, you'll see a plus-dot-minus sign. That tells you
which part of the pin (inside or outside) is the minus and which is the
plus. You don't want to get that wrong. Voltage and amperage are OK if
you're off by a bit (not sure what a "bit" means, you should probably wait
for a certified electrical engineer to respond).

As for connector size... you could probably get one of those
multi-headed-chargers and one should work...

On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I have 2 no name Android tablets. Both are model T271. One is labeled
> Muller and the other Masimo.
>
> I want to get a spare charger. The outside dimension of the connector
> is 2.5 millimeters. On e-bay, I see lots of chargers that have a 2.5
> millimeter connector, but the inside pin dimension is 0.7 OR 0.8. I've
> tried to measure the inside pin with a caliper, but I can't be sure
> which size I need.
>
> BTW, the plastic is yellow, but I have no idea if this means anything.
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Sent by Claws Mail 3.9.0 - KDE 4.10.5 - LINUX Mageia 3
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From linux-il at shimi.net  Sun Sep  7 09:31:02 2014
From: linux-il at shimi.net (shimi)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 09:31:02 +0300
Subject: (OT - but I don't know who to ask) - Android tablet charger
In-Reply-To: <CAJzkJxG4VkfsVyzymAJ4+ih=nwHo=wC_aDGJ8PpPTvvZ-hjdAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140828151306.1140515f@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6v1pYNEOdcrwHn0C4szyXBwgyuKP7J56NQ70HngfuNaJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140828180604.1cf327c1@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKDXFkOU0EbDjP3imrv3tD18P=s1_+BsYvckV0zkMeO-9df8Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140905150259.23469cb8@shlomo1.solomon>
 <CAJzkJxG4VkfsVyzymAJ4+ih=nwHo=wC_aDGJ8PpPTvvZ-hjdAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKnt4U8cKceGwdZ1Cxs6LPb8E+T_2dpY1mi+p094HWwO_Ti-+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Mord Behar <mordbe0 at gmail.com> wrote:

> You not only need the proper dimensions but also the correct voltage,
> amperage and direction (not sure what to call that last one).
>

s/direction/polarity/
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From mordbe0 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  7 10:21:53 2014
From: mordbe0 at gmail.com (Mord Behar)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 10:21:53 +0300
Subject: (OT - but I don't know who to ask) - Android tablet charger
In-Reply-To: <CAKnt4U8cKceGwdZ1Cxs6LPb8E+T_2dpY1mi+p094HWwO_Ti-+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140828151306.1140515f@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6v1pYNEOdcrwHn0C4szyXBwgyuKP7J56NQ70HngfuNaJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140828180604.1cf327c1@x120e>
 <CAGtcZ6vcnDq2sNPM6RgANqegKTgf=8HKwmO9sn74RsGgM7-nPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKDXFkOU0EbDjP3imrv3tD18P=s1_+BsYvckV0zkMeO-9df8Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140905150259.23469cb8@shlomo1.solomon>
 <CAJzkJxG4VkfsVyzymAJ4+ih=nwHo=wC_aDGJ8PpPTvvZ-hjdAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U8cKceGwdZ1Cxs6LPb8E+T_2dpY1mi+p094HWwO_Ti-+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJzkJxH_2POJM4wjejzF_Eo7MEPGDTdj48zVcJ_yPrhS+5uc2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:31 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Mord Behar <mordbe0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You not only need the proper dimensions but also the correct voltage,
>> amperage and direction (not sure what to call that last one).
>>
>
> s/direction/polarity/
>

I was sort of right. Polarity is just a binary choice of directions :P
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From eli at billauer.co.il  Sun Sep  7 18:35:33 2014
From: eli at billauer.co.il (Eli Billauer)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 18:35:33 +0300
Subject: Haifux: Call for speakers
Message-ID: <540C7B45.2040605@billauer.co.il>

Hi all,

After a short August vacation, Haifux is back. And it seems like it's 
some kind of tradition that the lecture list is empty at this time of 
the year.

So, any takers? The next slot -- a week from now -- is vacant. Grab it 
while it's hot!

Remember that you don't have to be an expert in the field of your 
lecture, even though many are. Haifux is also a good place to test-run 
talks intended for less responsive audiences.

See you,
    Eli

-- 
Web: http://www.billauer.co.il



From w1 at zak.co.il  Sun Sep 14 16:59:32 2014
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:59:32 +0300
Subject: How to sort a file by pure ASCII order?
Message-ID: <1410703172.20264.10.camel@c4>

I encountered a counterintuitive behavior of 'sort' in modern Linux
releases.

I checked the sorting behavior of sort, as installed in Debian Jessie
and Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.
Turns out that the default behavior of sort (with locale=en_US.UTF-8) is
not to sort by ASCII order, but as if letters and digits are more
important to sort order than punctuation marks.

Attached please find a sort-test.txt file and the output of
sort < sort-test.txt (as the file actual.txt).

To show how would the output look like using pure ASCII sort, I sorted
sort-test.txt using python-sort.py (attached).
and got the result reproduced in correct.txt (attached).

The problem is then what options would get GNU sort to sort like
python-sort.py?

Can anyone shed a light on the matter?

--- Omer


-- 
No actual electrons, animals or children were harmed by writing this
E-mail message.
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
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From yba at tkos.co.il  Sun Sep 14 17:15:47 2014
From: yba at tkos.co.il (Jonathan Ben Avraham)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 17:15:47 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: How to sort a file by pure ASCII order?
In-Reply-To: <1410703172.20264.10.camel@c4>
References: <1410703172.20264.10.camel@c4>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409141713390.7009@tavas.tkos.co.il>


LC_ALL=C  ?

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Omer Zak wrote:

> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:59:32 +0300
> From: Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>
> To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: How to sort a file by pure ASCII order?
> 
> I encountered a counterintuitive behavior of 'sort' in modern Linux
> releases.
>
> I checked the sorting behavior of sort, as installed in Debian Jessie
> and Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.
> Turns out that the default behavior of sort (with locale=en_US.UTF-8) is
> not to sort by ASCII order, but as if letters and digits are more
> important to sort order than punctuation marks.
>
> Attached please find a sort-test.txt file and the output of
> sort < sort-test.txt (as the file actual.txt).
>
> To show how would the output look like using pure ASCII sort, I sorted
> sort-test.txt using python-sort.py (attached).
> and got the result reproduced in correct.txt (attached).
>
> The problem is then what options would get GNU sort to sort like
> python-sort.py?
>
> Can anyone shed a light on the matter?
>
> --- Omer
>
>
>

-- 
  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
=}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm
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_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

From w1 at zak.co.il  Sun Sep 14 23:35:07 2014
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:35:07 +0300
Subject: [SOLVED] Re: How to sort a file by pure ASCII order?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409141713390.7009@tavas.tkos.co.il>
References: <1410703172.20264.10.camel@c4>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409141713390.7009@tavas.tkos.co.il>
Message-ID: <1410726907.23620.3.camel@c4>

Thanks, Jonathan, 'LC_ALL=C sort' did the trick.
Later I went back to 'man sort' and found there the warning to pay
attention to locale when running sort.  I missed the warning before...

On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 17:15 +0300, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote:
> LC_ALL=C  ?
> 
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Omer Zak wrote:
> 
> > Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:59:32 +0300
> > From: Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>
> > To: linux-il <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> > Subject: How to sort a file by pure ASCII order?
> > 
> > I encountered a counterintuitive behavior of 'sort' in modern Linux
> > releases.
> >
> > I checked the sorting behavior of sort, as installed in Debian Jessie
> > and Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.
> > Turns out that the default behavior of sort (with locale=en_US.UTF-8) is
> > not to sort by ASCII order, but as if letters and digits are more
> > important to sort order than punctuation marks.
> >
> > Attached please find a sort-test.txt file and the output of
> > sort < sort-test.txt (as the file actual.txt).
> >
> > To show how would the output look like using pure ASCII sort, I sorted
> > sort-test.txt using python-sort.py (attached).
> > and got the result reproduced in correct.txt (attached).
> >
> > The problem is then what options would get GNU sort to sort like
> > python-sort.py?
> >
> > Can anyone shed a light on the matter?

-- 
Palestinians did not firmly and vocally and strongly denounce the Hannover attack (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/24/german-youths-attack-jewi_n_623922.html) but rather supported the attack, even though it is yet another proof why Jews need their own country in which they can live safely.
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From tzahi.ml at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 14:15:40 2014
From: tzahi.ml at gmail.com (tzahi ml)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
Message-ID: <CAGSJNoZ6Kmoh95-uH_68=V-ckvNBQEUppCNn+ohQ-qNPr0OtuA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I am in need of assistance.

I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
promotion is out of the question :) ).

Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

One of the ideas that were given to me is to compile couchbase or postgres
and distribute the binaries with a support license. Find 4-5 customers
which pay big bucks and make a living. Though, not much scale there either,
unless i start taking employees...

Another idea is taking employees but people in the business are telling me
i am better off staying a freelancer than taking employees. Not sure what
is true here.

One other idea I had is hosting complex solutions for sites. Like
postgresql couchbase etc... which is difficult for the average joe and
making it scale like heroku etc...

Can someone give me a clue?

Thanks!

Tzahi Fadida.
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From yba at tkos.co.il  Thu Sep 18 14:56:12 2014
From: yba at tkos.co.il (Jonathan Ben Avraham)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:56:12 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
In-Reply-To: <CAGSJNoZ6Kmoh95-uH_68=V-ckvNBQEUppCNn+ohQ-qNPr0OtuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGSJNoZ6Kmoh95-uH_68=V-ckvNBQEUppCNn+ohQ-qNPr0OtuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409181437590.7333@tavas.tkos.co.il>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, tzahi ml wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
> From: tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com>
> To: "linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il" <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
> 
> Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
> 
> I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
> However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and promotion is out of the question :) ).
> 
> Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.

Be ready to drink a lot of coffee, and say goodby to your significant 
others (family).

> One of the ideas that were given to me is to compile couchbase or postgres and distribute the binaries with a support license. Find 4-5 customers which pay big bucks
> and make a living. Though, not much scale there either, unless i start taking employees...

Customers that pay big bucks work with suppliers who have big bucks. 
That's not you, so forget it. That is, large customers work with large 
suppliers. For example, you you have a quality solution, but a larger 
supplier has only a partial, poor quality solution, then the company with 
big bucks will buy from the larger supplier with the poor quality, partial 
solution and not you. That's how the business world works. Big business 
works with big business, small business works with small business. The 
size equation trumps quality and availability.

> Another idea is taking employees but people in the business are telling me i am better off staying a freelancer than taking employees. Not sure what is true here.

When you take employees you need to have enough money to pay them for at 
least two-months ahead. You will need to incorporate, and hire an office 
manager/secretary. Your employees get paid first. If there is any money 
left afterwards then you might get paid. Is this what you want to do? 
That's how you want to risk your savings? Having employees is like having 
children. You have to guide them, instruct them, motivate them and wipe 
their noses. Are you built for that?

> One other idea I had is hosting complex solutions for sites. Like postgresql couchbase etc... which is difficult for the average joe and making it scale like heroku
> etc...
> 
> Can someone give me a clue?

Yes. Reverse the process. Instead of wanting to "scale" and then looking 
for an idea, work on the idea first. If you have a great idea for a new 
technology or service then look for partners. And if you don't have a 
really great idea, forget about trying to scale.

That's not my 2 cents speaking. That's my NIS 600K debt speaking.

  - yba


> Thanks!
> 
> Tzahi Fadida.
> 
> 
>

-- 
  9590 8E58 D30D 1660 C349  673D B205 4FC4 B8F5 B7F9  ~. .~  Tk Open Systems
=}-------- Jonathan Ben-Avraham ("yba") ----------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
mailto:yba at tkos.co.il tel:+972.52.486.3386 http://tkos.co.il skype:benavrhm
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il

From david at davidsconsultants.com  Thu Sep 18 16:00:16 2014
From: david at davidsconsultants.com (David Suna)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:00:16 +0300
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409181437590.7333@tavas.tkos.co.il>
References: <CAGSJNoZ6Kmoh95-uH_68=V-ckvNBQEUppCNn+ohQ-qNPr0OtuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409181437590.7333@tavas.tkos.co.il>
Message-ID: <541AD760.50105@davidsconsultants.com>


On 09/18/2014 02:56 PM, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, tzahi ml wrote:
>
>> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
>> From: tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com>
>> To: "linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il" <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>> Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
>>
>> Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
>>
>> I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
>> However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much 
>> (and promotion is out of the question :) ).
>>
>> Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.
A different way to say the same thing:
You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is 
limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set 
is. Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed" 
salary and a corporate culture for advancement.

Or, you can choose to work for yourself. This have several variations:
1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a 
higher hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own 
benefits, accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being 
someone else's job to generate work for you. This also does not "scale" 
as you are limited to the number of hours a day you can work and the 
going market rate for the skill set you have.

2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is 
not necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things. 
However, it is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale" 
as you can develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the 
significant risk of startup and development costs and whether the 
product will be successful.

3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of 
hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the 
focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your  skill 
set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people 
(employees or contractors) provide the service in the name of your 
company. Your profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the 
cost of the worker actually doing the work. You also take on the 
responsibility of generating enough work to cover the costs of the 
worker(s) and yourself. With all of the joys that Yonatan described in 
his email.


-- 
David Suna
david at davidsconsultants.com



From tzahi.ml at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 16:27:55 2014
From: tzahi.ml at gmail.com (tzahi ml)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:27:55 +0300
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
In-Reply-To: <541AD760.50105@davidsconsultants.com>
References: <CAGSJNoZ6Kmoh95-uH_68=V-ckvNBQEUppCNn+ohQ-qNPr0OtuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409181437590.7333@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <541AD760.50105@davidsconsultants.com>
Message-ID: <CAGSJNobBKedkX9GA4KvDSMOJ6HEWMTovmTKWkwLE9Zy+azW4gA@mail.gmail.com>

It appears not to sound that fun when you tell it like it is.
I am just closing a startup, not too keen to start a new one right away.

A startup has no business sense.
However, I was hoping there is a middle ground, a business sense and a
certain risk.
The current idea I have is to freelance until I figure this out.
Perhaps mix freelancing and a making a risky business.

Is there some freelance/small company names with successful models in open
source in Israel?
It is hard to believe there is no middle ground, either freelance, be
employed or start a startup.
I have no trouble with slow progress but the aim is to scale eventually...


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 4:00 PM, David Suna <david at davidsconsultants.com>
wrote:

>
> On 09/18/2014 02:56 PM, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, tzahi ml wrote:
>>
>>  Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
>>> From: tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com>
>>> To: "linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il" <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>> Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
>>>
>>> Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
>>>
>>> I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
>>> However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
>>> promotion is out of the question :) ).
>>>
>>> Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.
>>>
>> A different way to say the same thing:
> You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is
> limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set is.
> Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed" salary
> and a corporate culture for advancement.
>
> Or, you can choose to work for yourself. This have several variations:
> 1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a higher
> hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own benefits,
> accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being someone else's job
> to generate work for you. This also does not "scale" as you are limited to
> the number of hours a day you can work and the going market rate for the
> skill set you have.
>
> 2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is not
> necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things. However, it
> is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale" as you can
> develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the significant
> risk of startup and development costs and whether the product will be
> successful.
>
> 3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of
> hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the
> focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your  skill
> set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people (employees
> or contractors) provide the service in the name of your company. Your
> profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the cost of the worker
> actually doing the work. You also take on the responsibility of generating
> enough work to cover the costs of the worker(s) and yourself. With all of
> the joys that Yonatan described in his email.
>
>
> --
> David Suna
> david at davidsconsultants.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From aviram at jenik.com  Thu Sep 18 16:34:44 2014
From: aviram at jenik.com (Aviram Jenik)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:34:44 +0900
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
In-Reply-To: <CAGSJNobBKedkX9GA4KvDSMOJ6HEWMTovmTKWkwLE9Zy+azW4gA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGSJNoZ6Kmoh95-uH_68=V-ckvNBQEUppCNn+ohQ-qNPr0OtuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409181437590.7333@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <541AD760.50105@davidsconsultants.com>
 <CAGSJNobBKedkX9GA4KvDSMOJ6HEWMTovmTKWkwLE9Zy+azW4gA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABtmDM98qHHYSeY3zRrgQ8CGd-A=FGwO48Ox2SHV=B5qThpAsw@mail.gmail.com>

It's not clear (at least, not to me) what you're asking.

You want something that has no risk, does not require too much hard work,
but pays well. And then you want to further restrict the search space of
this invisible universe to open source only. How is that "middle ground"?

Decide which of these constraints you're willing to free, and perhaps
people can help you with some experience. If there was an open source way
to make money easily with no risk and little work I promise you we wouldn't
be telling you about it since we would be too busy drinking cocktails in
our in our own private island in the Caribbeans.


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:27 PM, tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com> wrote:

> It appears not to sound that fun when you tell it like it is.
> I am just closing a startup, not too keen to start a new one right away.
>
> A startup has no business sense.
> However, I was hoping there is a middle ground, a business sense and a
> certain risk.
> The current idea I have is to freelance until I figure this out.
> Perhaps mix freelancing and a making a risky business.
>
> Is there some freelance/small company names with successful models in open
> source in Israel?
> It is hard to believe there is no middle ground, either freelance, be
> employed or start a startup.
> I have no trouble with slow progress but the aim is to scale eventually...
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 4:00 PM, David Suna <david at davidsconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 09/18/2014 02:56 PM, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, tzahi ml wrote:
>>>
>>>  Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
>>>> From: tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il" <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>>> Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
>>>>
>>>> I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
>>>> However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much
>>>> (and promotion is out of the question :) ).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.
>>>>
>>> A different way to say the same thing:
>> You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is
>> limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set is.
>> Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed" salary
>> and a corporate culture for advancement.
>>
>> Or, you can choose to work for yourself. This have several variations:
>> 1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a higher
>> hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own benefits,
>> accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being someone else's job
>> to generate work for you. This also does not "scale" as you are limited to
>> the number of hours a day you can work and the going market rate for the
>> skill set you have.
>>
>> 2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is not
>> necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things. However, it
>> is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale" as you can
>> develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the significant
>> risk of startup and development costs and whether the product will be
>> successful.
>>
>> 3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of
>> hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the
>> focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your  skill
>> set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people (employees
>> or contractors) provide the service in the name of your company. Your
>> profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the cost of the worker
>> actually doing the work. You also take on the responsibility of generating
>> enough work to cover the costs of the worker(s) and yourself. With all of
>> the joys that Yonatan described in his email.
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Suna
>> david at davidsconsultants.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From tzahi.ml at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 18:34:37 2014
From: tzahi.ml at gmail.com (tzahi ml)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:34:37 +0300
Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
In-Reply-To: <CABtmDM98qHHYSeY3zRrgQ8CGd-A=FGwO48Ox2SHV=B5qThpAsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGSJNoZ6Kmoh95-uH_68=V-ckvNBQEUppCNn+ohQ-qNPr0OtuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409181437590.7333@tavas.tkos.co.il>
 <541AD760.50105@davidsconsultants.com>
 <CAGSJNobBKedkX9GA4KvDSMOJ6HEWMTovmTKWkwLE9Zy+azW4gA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM98qHHYSeY3zRrgQ8CGd-A=FGwO48Ox2SHV=B5qThpAsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGSJNobyBM=8n_nhBuEMrC4aeFTN-wxZjjUSdkDF5SBU+LkxUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Aviram,
As it is an email, it is difficult to convey details and it can be
confusing.

I am not restricting anything, but since this is a linux/open source
mailing list I asked it with this subject.
I worked on proprietary code for the last 8 years so I have no problem with
proprietary or open source.
I do think there are merits to start with an open source project since it
is a good starting point (otherwise you start from scratch). Also, I am not
saying I am restricted to writing open source code.

I would like to create a product (as i wrote earlier i just closed my 2nd
or 3rd startup depends how you look at it) eventually but I am trying to be
realistic. Start again more slowly.

Starting again from scratch: I am currently a freelancer by choice. This is
my first time I have worked this way. I am actually being payed well but I
do want something which scales and sustainable in the future and that will
be turned into a company (somehow), preferably self funded by effort
instead of investments. I am not looking to make big bucks but to have more
control of the direction it takes. I worked for huge companies which wasted
my time by writing the same thing over and over for stupid reasons. I got
payed well but I feel I can do more.

I am looking for an advise to jumpstart. A place to start. Naturally, my
first thought was ask in this mailing list since there are people with open
source and business experience here. Perhaps there is a sustainable
specific format with other companies examples etc... Everyone says, don't
take employees, don't start a startup, don't be independent, don't do that,
don't do this. But what can I do?... :)

I guess this is too general and I should be more specific but this is my
current state so I am telling it as it is. I can write about my attempts
but I don't have any definite direction at this time so I am not sure they
are relevant.


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:

> It's not clear (at least, not to me) what you're asking.
>
> You want something that has no risk, does not require too much hard work,
> but pays well. And then you want to further restrict the search space of
> this invisible universe to open source only. How is that "middle ground"?
>
> Decide which of these constraints you're willing to free, and perhaps
> people can help you with some experience. If there was an open source way
> to make money easily with no risk and little work I promise you we wouldn't
> be telling you about it since we would be too busy drinking cocktails in
> our in our own private island in the Caribbeans.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:27 PM, tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It appears not to sound that fun when you tell it like it is.
>> I am just closing a startup, not too keen to start a new one right away.
>>
>> A startup has no business sense.
>> However, I was hoping there is a middle ground, a business sense and a
>> certain risk.
>> The current idea I have is to freelance until I figure this out.
>> Perhaps mix freelancing and a making a risky business.
>>
>> Is there some freelance/small company names with successful models in
>> open source in Israel?
>> It is hard to believe there is no middle ground, either freelance, be
>> employed or start a startup.
>> I have no trouble with slow progress but the aim is to scale eventually...
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 4:00 PM, David Suna <david at davidsconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 09/18/2014 02:56 PM, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, tzahi ml wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
>>>>> From: tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il" <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>>>>> Subject: Question about how to make a living from open source
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,I am in need of assistance.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
>>>>> However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much
>>>>> (and promotion is out of the question :) ).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.
>>>>>
>>>> A different way to say the same thing:
>>> You can choose to be an employee in which case your earning potential is
>>> limited to what the current market value of someone with your skill set is.
>>> Doesn't "scale" but does provide you with benefits, a "guaranteed" salary
>>> and a corporate culture for advancement.
>>>
>>> Or, you can choose to work for yourself. This have several variations:
>>> 1. Working as a contractor - Generally this allows you to charge a
>>> higher hourly rate. The down side is you have to provide your own benefits,
>>> accounting, etc. You also lose the stability of it being someone else's job
>>> to generate work for you. This also does not "scale" as you are limited to
>>> the number of hours a day you can work and the going market rate for the
>>> skill set you have.
>>>
>>> 2. Produce a product - Build a better mouse trap and sell it. This is
>>> not necessarily in line with the open source way of doing things. However,
>>> it is a common business plan. This has the potential to "scale" as you can
>>> develop the product once and sell it many times. You have the significant
>>> risk of startup and development costs and whether the product will be
>>> successful.
>>>
>>> 3. Provide a service - Along the lines of the idea you suggested of
>>> hosting complex solutions. This is similar to being a contractor but the
>>> focus is on marketing the service you provide rather you and your  skill
>>> set. This only has the potential to scale by having other people (employees
>>> or contractors) provide the service in the name of your company. Your
>>> profit is the cost you can charge the client minus the cost of the worker
>>> actually doing the work. You also take on the responsibility of generating
>>> enough work to cover the costs of the worker(s) and yourself. With all of
>>> the joys that Yonatan described in his email.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Suna
>>> david at davidsconsultants.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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From matanya at foss.co.il  Thu Sep 18 19:13:36 2014
From: matanya at foss.co.il (Matanya)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 19:13:36 +0300
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <a35f6d19-836a-4e71-9379-2848e9a00848@email.android.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

no archive since Jan 2014. Is this known?

if not, can one please fix?
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Sun Sep 21 11:50:45 2014
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:50:45 +0300
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Question about how to make a living from open source
In-Reply-To: <20140921114933.1050dfdf@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
References: <20140921114933.1050dfdf@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
Message-ID: <CANy4znWrTBPc=2kfu1LNAddk38fhzmb8HiUq3PpXzdhCdLMAag@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif at shlomifish.org>
Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:49 AM
Subject: Fw: Question about how to make a living from open source
To: shlomif at gmail.com




Begin forwarded message:

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:48:01 +0300
From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif at shlomifish.org>
Cc: "linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il" <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Re: Question about how to make a living from open source


Hi Tzahi,

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am in need of assistance.
>
> I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
> However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
> promotion is out of the question :) ).
>
> Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.
>

I've written about some business models for web-based publishing here:

https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/MRLntf3xu5Y

Some of them have correspondence to open source. See:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Alternative profitable business models for Web-based commerce.

This is a list of 5 business models for web-based commerce that do not
require
depending on advertising:


1. Collect donations or ask for money for public appearances in advance -
see
https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x .

2. The Flickr model - charge people for a premium model.

3. The Bandcamp/Humble-Bundle model - pay what you want (people can be very
generous).

4. The cloud model - pay for hosting or a MMORPG account
(World-of-Warcraft/etc.) or whatever.

5. Pay to liberate - collect money to make a CC-by-nc-sa work CC-by/etc.

6. Sell merchandise - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI .

7. One can also set up non-intrusive ads like those provided by
http://projectwonderful.com/ , but I doubt they'll be profitable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Another suggestion I can give you is to work a lot on publicity, social
networking, etc. - both in real life and in Internet-based social media
venues.

See:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Objectivism/comments/2c1fue/the_importance_of_human_networking/

A chauffeur with whom I stroke a conversation at a McDonalds restaurant
close to
Heathrow airport in London told me he now gets most of his customers from
social media outlets such as Facebook or Twitter. The newfound possibilities
from real-life and electronic social networking are very much reflected in
stories here:

* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Buffy/A-Few-Good-Slayers/

There are plenty of online communities for various topics on the Internet.
Find some of them that you are interested in and contribute to them. There
are
Reddit subreddits, wikis (Wikipedia, Wikia wikis, etc.), IRC channels on
Freenode/etc., Facebook groups and pages, Twitter feeds, mailing lists, etc.
and you should be able to contribute to some of them.

The greatest threat for any business is obscurity.

You may also wish to invest some money in buying ads, commercials,
promotions or whatever - nothing wrong with that and this money may be well
worth it in publicity.

Finally note the Carpe Diem / "He who saved one man has essentially saved
the
world entire principle" - don't try to maximise your audience immediately.
Invest time in each and every friend and recipient:

* http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html#carpe_diem

Finally, I should note that your English does not sound idiomatic (although
I
admit I heard much worse). You should work on improving it. See my advice
for
how to do that here:

* https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hackers-il/conversations/messages/5143

Regards,

        Shlomi Fish

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/

God helps them that help God help them.
    ? http://shlomif.livejournal.com/66017.html

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
What does ?Zionism? mean? - http://shlom.in/def-zionism

Harry: Mr. Mumford, I hereby propose my friend, the beautiful Hermione.
Hermione: Ahem? actually I kinda have a bad hair day today, so I think
your assistant should be the beautiful Harry (Potter!) here.
Harry: Very well, I shall be the beautiful assistant.
    ? http://is.gd/zsmond

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .



-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From sara.fink at gmail.com  Tue Sep 23 10:04:19 2014
From: sara.fink at gmail.com (sara fink)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:04:19 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
Message-ID: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All

I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version number)  that
support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3. Preferable ext2 since it's not
journaled.

I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.

Thanks
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From rabin at rabin.io  Tue Sep 23 10:50:20 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:50:20 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>

It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to be able and
change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system partition).


--
Rabin

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All
>
> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version number)  that
> support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3. Preferable ext2 since it's not
> journaled.
>
> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From mordbe0 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 23 12:12:12 2014
From: mordbe0 at gmail.com (Mord Behar)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:12:12 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJzkJxG+VD73Z6YWscxCdoBk+=PQS+zr1eeKPSNK7QPqX_n=EA@mail.gmail.com>

I think some of the Cyanogen mods support ext4. Also I recall reading
somewhere that this might be a feature in Android L, but I can't remember
where...
On Sep 23, 2014 10:51 AM, "Rabin Yasharzadehe" <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:

> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to be able and
> change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system partition).
>
>
> --
> Rabin
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello All
>>
>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version number)  that
>> support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3. Preferable ext2 since it's not
>> journaled.
>>
>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From sara.fink at gmail.com  Tue Sep 23 12:15:04 2014
From: sara.fink at gmail.com (sara fink)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:15:04 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>

What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:

> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to be able and
> change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system partition).
>
>
> --
> Rabin
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello All
>>
>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version number)  that
>> support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3. Preferable ext2 since it's not
>> journaled.
>>
>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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From rabin at rabin.io  Tue Sep 23 15:13:13 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>

It depends on the device,
But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the default for the
external SDCARD.

--
Rabin

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:

> What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io>
> wrote:
>
>> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to be able and
>> change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system partition).
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rabin
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All
>>>
>>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version number)  that
>>> support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3. Preferable ext2 since it's not
>>> journaled.
>>>
>>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From efraim.flashner at gmail.com  Tue Sep 23 17:02:36 2014
From: efraim.flashner at gmail.com (Efraim Flashner)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:02:36 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>

I've heard that some Samsung phones are running F2FS to increase
performance/decrease NAND wear.  To me it seems likely that if they're
enabling that then they wouldn't be squeamish about enabling ext2/3/4.

I think the sd card I used in my htc one v was ext4 formatted, but I
don't remember now.  I can check later, depending on how chag
preperations go this evening.

-Efraim 


On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:

> It depends on the device,
> But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the default for
> the external SDCARD.
> 
> --
> Rabin
> 
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe
> > <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> >
> >> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to be
> >> able and change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system
> >> partition).
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rabin
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello All
> >>>
> >>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version
> >>> number)  that support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3.
> >>> Preferable ext2 since it's not journaled.
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Linux-il mailing list
> >>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> >>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >



-- 
Efraim Flashner    
efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
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From sara.fink at gmail.com  Tue Sep 23 17:38:28 2014
From: sara.fink at gmail.com (sara fink)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:38:28 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>
Message-ID: <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Efraim. I will appreciate it. I can wait a day or two.
@Rabin, I'm not interested in fat due to the size limit.




On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I've heard that some Samsung phones are running F2FS to increase
> performance/decrease NAND wear.  To me it seems likely that if they're
> enabling that then they wouldn't be squeamish about enabling ext2/3/4.
>
> I think the sd card I used in my htc one v was ext4 formatted, but I
> don't remember now.  I can check later, depending on how chag
> preperations go this evening.
>
> -Efraim
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
> Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
>
> > It depends on the device,
> > But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the default for
> > the external SDCARD.
> >
> > --
> > Rabin
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe
> > > <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> > >
> > >> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to be
> > >> able and change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system
> > >> partition).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Rabin
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello All
> > >>>
> > >>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version
> > >>> number)  that support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3.
> > >>> Preferable ext2 since it's not journaled.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Linux-il mailing list
> > >>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > >>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
>
>
>
> --
> Efraim Flashner
> efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
> GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From rabin at rabin.io  Tue Sep 23 23:27:51 2014
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 23:27:51 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>
 <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEDq1qEu5wptwZ4UP=3pYyH33CkebmNuDfW966wMaMiOHA@mail.gmail.com>

exFAT <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT> don't have the same limitation
like FAT,
And there some (custome) kernels out there which come with exFAT support.

--
Rabin

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:38 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Efraim. I will appreciate it. I can wait a day or two.
> @Rabin, I'm not interested in fat due to the size limit.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Efraim Flashner <
> efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've heard that some Samsung phones are running F2FS to increase
>> performance/decrease NAND wear.  To me it seems likely that if they're
>> enabling that then they wouldn't be squeamish about enabling ext2/3/4.
>>
>> I think the sd card I used in my htc one v was ext4 formatted, but I
>> don't remember now.  I can check later, depending on how chag
>> preperations go this evening.
>>
>> -Efraim
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
>> Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
>>
>> > It depends on the device,
>> > But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the default for
>> > the external SDCARD.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Rabin
>> >
>> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe
>> > > <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to be
>> > >> able and change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system
>> > >> partition).
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Rabin
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Hello All
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version
>> > >>> number)  that support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3.
>> > >>> Preferable ext2 since it's not journaled.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks
>> > >>>
>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>> > >>> Linux-il mailing list
>> > >>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> > >>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Efraim Flashner
>> efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
>> GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com  Wed Sep 24 05:41:41 2014
From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 05:41:41 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEDq1qEu5wptwZ4UP=3pYyH33CkebmNuDfW966wMaMiOHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>
 <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEDq1qEu5wptwZ4UP=3pYyH33CkebmNuDfW966wMaMiOHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140924054141.62ccb310@shlomo1.solomon>

The original poster mentioned wanting to save files larger than 2 Gb.
The limit on Fat32 is 4Gb, so I don't see the problem. 

On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 23:27:51 +0300
Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:

> exFAT <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT> don't have the same
> limitation like FAT,
> And there some (custome) kernels out there which come with exFAT
> support.
> 
> --
> Rabin
> 
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:38 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Efraim. I will appreciate it. I can wait a day or two.
> > @Rabin, I'm not interested in fat due to the size limit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Efraim Flashner <
> > efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I've heard that some Samsung phones are running F2FS to increase
> >> performance/decrease NAND wear.  To me it seems likely that if
> >> they're enabling that then they wouldn't be squeamish about
> >> enabling ext2/3/4.
> >>
> >> I think the sd card I used in my htc one v was ext4 formatted, but
> >> I don't remember now.  I can check later, depending on how chag
> >> preperations go this evening.
> >>
> >> -Efraim
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
> >> Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It depends on the device,
> >> > But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the
> >> > default for the external SDCARD.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Rabin
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe
> >> > > <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to
> >> > >> be able and change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system
> >> > >> partition).
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> Rabin
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink
> >> > >> <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Hello All
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version
> >> > >>> number)  that support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3.
> >> > >>> Preferable ext2 since it's not journaled.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Thanks
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> _______________________________________________
> >> > >>> Linux-il mailing list
> >> > >>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> >> > >>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Efraim Flashner
> >> efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
> >> GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Linux-il mailing list
> >> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> >> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >
> >



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Sent by Claws Mail 3.9.0 - KDE 4.10.5 - LINUX Mageia 3



From efraim.flashner at gmail.com  Wed Sep 24 10:04:26 2014
From: efraim.flashner at gmail.com (Efraim Flashner)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:04:26 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>
 <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140924100426.51dd4011@debian-netbook>

Just tried ext2 formatted, my htc one v says that it's an unsupported
filesystem

On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:38:28 +0300
sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Efraim. I will appreciate it. I can wait a day or two.
> @Rabin, I'm not interested in fat due to the size limit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Efraim Flashner
> <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I've heard that some Samsung phones are running F2FS to increase
> > performance/decrease NAND wear.  To me it seems likely that if
> > they're enabling that then they wouldn't be squeamish about
> > enabling ext2/3/4.
> >
> > I think the sd card I used in my htc one v was ext4 formatted, but I
> > don't remember now.  I can check later, depending on how chag
> > preperations go this evening.
> >
> > -Efraim
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
> > Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> >
> > > It depends on the device,
> > > But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the default
> > > for the external SDCARD.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rabin
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe
> > > > <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to
> > > >> be able and change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system
> > > >> partition).
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Rabin
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink
> > > >> <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hello All
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version
> > > >>> number)  that support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3.
> > > >>> Preferable ext2 since it's not journaled.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks
> > > >>>

-- 
Efraim Flashner    
efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
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From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Thu Sep 25 05:46:21 2014
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:46:21 -0400
Subject: Daemontools intro
Message-ID: <20140924224621.36e02455@mydesq2.domain.cxm>

Hi all,

I wrote this introduction to daemontools:

http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/daemontools_intro.htm

Enjoy!

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu Sep 25 07:19:51 2014
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:19:51 +1000
Subject: Daemontools intro
In-Reply-To: <20140924224621.36e02455@mydesq2.domain.cxm>
References: <20140924224621.36e02455@mydesq2.domain.cxm>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WVcTSjgZ2Zpp8ihAenfpRHB_jKCgW-9ZAcwu7JKbjKGoA@mail.gmail.com>

About a year ago I wrote a Puppet module to install and configure
daemontools services which we used very successfully at my previous
workplace. I got permission to open-source it but can't find it right now.
I'll try to dig it up when I get home.


On 25 September 2014 12:46, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I wrote this introduction to daemontools:
>
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/daemontools_intro.htm
>
> Enjoy!
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
> Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From sara.fink at gmail.com  Sat Sep 27 00:23:16 2014
From: sara.fink at gmail.com (sara fink)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 00:23:16 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <20140924100426.51dd4011@debian-netbook>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>
 <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140924100426.51dd4011@debian-netbook>
Message-ID: <CAKsgyTaZxZjwq56WYxNuktda7p6eRc5_qXXimTc8gRojzoxu_w@mail.gmail.com>

So, what filesystem it uses?

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Efraim Flashner <efraim.flashner at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Just tried ext2 formatted, my htc one v says that it's an unsupported
> filesystem
>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:38:28 +0300
> sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Efraim. I will appreciate it. I can wait a day or two.
> > @Rabin, I'm not interested in fat due to the size limit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Efraim Flashner
> > <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I've heard that some Samsung phones are running F2FS to increase
> > > performance/decrease NAND wear.  To me it seems likely that if
> > > they're enabling that then they wouldn't be squeamish about
> > > enabling ext2/3/4.
> > >
> > > I think the sd card I used in my htc one v was ext4 formatted, but I
> > > don't remember now.  I can check later, depending on how chag
> > > preperations go this evening.
> > >
> > > -Efraim
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
> > > Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It depends on the device,
> > > > But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the default
> > > > for the external SDCARD.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rabin
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe
> > > > > <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device to
> > > > >> be able and change the mount option for the sdcard (on /system
> > > > >> partition).
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Rabin
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink
> > > > >> <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Hello All
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version
> > > > >>> number)  that support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3.
> > > > >>> Preferable ext2 since it's not journaled.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Thanks
> > > > >>>
>
> --
> Efraim Flashner
> efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
> GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 27 16:24:52 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:24:52 +0300
Subject: shell shock
Message-ID: <CAMUp3w=fBb-dX-bobs=XF0PHwtvFajG=EP0r87gOG_UO2+uvgQ@mail.gmail.com>

just read about the "new linux bug" in ynet
found out it is a bash exploit

just fyi,

see http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/25/what-is-the-shellshock/
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From dolevf at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 27 16:37:25 2014
From: dolevf at yahoo.com (=?utf-8?B?RG9sZXYgRmFyaGk=?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 13:37:25 GMT
Subject: shell shock
Message-ID: <000f4257.6ef8f97e4625aa7c@yahoo.com>

Yes its all over the place.

For people with web sites, you can use the following online shellshock tester website to check if you are vulnerable in the following url:
https://shellshock.detectify.com

------ Original message------
From: Erez D
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2014 16:25
To: linux-il;
Subject:shell shock

just read about the "new linux bug" in ynet
found out it is a bash exploit

just fyi,

see http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/25/what-is-the-shellshock/

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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 27 16:49:47 2014
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:49:47 +0300
Subject: shell shock
In-Reply-To: <000f4257.6ef8f97e4625aa7c@yahoo.com>
References: <000f4257.6ef8f97e4625aa7c@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wn09ev7=DnriwdBj60VmFJSBu1sjcGtBvHgqXE_y=ofaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Dolev Farhi <dolevf at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes its all over the place.
>
that is why I was suprised it was not mentioned in linux-il ;-)

>
>
> For people with web sites, you can use the following online shellshock
> tester website to check if you are vulnerable in the following url:
>
> https://shellshock.detectify.com
>
>
>
> ------ Original message------
>
> *From: *Erez D
>
> *Date: *Sat, Sep 27, 2014 16:25
>
> *To: *linux-il;
>
> *Subject:*shell shock
>
>
> just read about the "new linux bug" in ynet
> found out it is a bash exploit
>
> just fyi,
>
> see http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/25/what-is-the-shellshock/
>
>
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From dolevf at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 27 16:54:02 2014
From: dolevf at yahoo.com (=?utf-8?B?RG9sZXYgRmFyaGk=?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 13:54:02 GMT
Subject: shell shock
Message-ID: <000f4257.4db533ea38986f92@yahoo.com>

Probably shellshock overdose for some people...

------ Original message------
From: Erez D
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2014 16:50
To: Dolev Farhi;
Cc: linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il;
Subject:Re: shell shock



On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Dolev Farhi <dolevf at yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes its all over the place.
that is why I was suprised it was not mentioned in linux-il ;-)

For people with web sites, you can use the following online shellshock tester website to check if you are vulnerable in the following url:
https://shellshock.detectify.com

------ Original message------
From: Erez D
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2014 16:25
To: linux-il;
Subject:shell shock

just read about the "new linux bug" in ynet
found out it is a bash exploit

just fyi,

see http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/25/what-is-the-shellshock/


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From efraim.flashner at gmail.com  Sat Sep 27 21:56:01 2014
From: efraim.flashner at gmail.com (Efraim Flashner)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 21:56:01 +0300
Subject: sd card file system on android
In-Reply-To: <CAKsgyTaZxZjwq56WYxNuktda7p6eRc5_qXXimTc8gRojzoxu_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKsgyTadMv=DyVVRdWA2QbmmMiYNdU1jSmX3uwXMZvDPKnGXEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBh+VwQXkdNgUGCZz2UyHPwYq=Hj9Y8oj_usQdhjeBSsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKsgyTYdSOkWz-p=_7MtXeMqaJu=Ns_KTJHnaGKMM=+fqFccLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEBT5a6OPhrKgZXx4NHX_pydMZngWdDJzgn+H-dHOfFwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140923170236.6dc01fcd@debian-netbook>
 <CAKsgyTbunOvOdQCXkVsJrdKshoQ4hRpR9XfqEcQ7+HfGP9_rUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140924100426.51dd4011@debian-netbook>
 <CAKsgyTaZxZjwq56WYxNuktda7p6eRc5_qXXimTc8gRojzoxu_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140927215601.1152311c@debian-netbook>

It offered to format the card as FAT for me

-Efraim


On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 00:23:16 +0300
sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:

> So, what filesystem it uses?
> 
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Efraim Flashner
> <efraim.flashner at gmail.com
> > wrote:
> 
> > Just tried ext2 formatted, my htc one v says that it's an
> > unsupported filesystem
> >
> > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:38:28 +0300
> > sara fink <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Efraim. I will appreciate it. I can wait a day or two.
> > > @Rabin, I'm not interested in fat due to the size limit.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Efraim Flashner
> > > <efraim.flashner at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've heard that some Samsung phones are running F2FS to increase
> > > > performance/decrease NAND wear.  To me it seems likely that if
> > > > they're enabling that then they wouldn't be squeamish about
> > > > enabling ext2/3/4.
> > > >
> > > > I think the sd card I used in my htc one v was ext4 formatted,
> > > > but I don't remember now.  I can check later, depending on how
> > > > chag preperations go this evening.
> > > >
> > > > -Efraim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:13:13 +0300
> > > > Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It depends on the device,
> > > > > But probably all will support FAT (not exFAT) as it's the
> > > > > default for the external SDCARD.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Rabin
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:15 PM, sara fink
> > > > > <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > What is already enabled in the kernel? FAT/ext2/ext3 ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Rabin Yasharzadehe
> > > > > > <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> It's a kernel future, and you will have to root the device
> > > > > >> to be able and change the mount option for the sdcard
> > > > > >> (on /system partition).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> Rabin
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM, sara fink
> > > > > >> <sara.fink at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Hello All
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I am looking for phone models with android (maybe version
> > > > > >>> number)  that support sd card formated with ext2 or ext3.
> > > > > >>> Preferable ext2 since it's not journaled.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I'd like to save big files (1-2gb each file) on the sd.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Thanks
> > > > > >>>
> >

-- 
Efraim Flashner    
efraim.flashner at gmail.com 4096R/CA3D8351 created: 2013-10-08
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
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From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com  Sun Sep 28 15:49:04 2014
From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:49:04 +0300
Subject: shell shock
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wn09ev7=DnriwdBj60VmFJSBu1sjcGtBvHgqXE_y=ofaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f4257.6ef8f97e4625aa7c@yahoo.com>
 <CAMUp3wn09ev7=DnriwdBj60VmFJSBu1sjcGtBvHgqXE_y=ofaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140928154904.1d6423a9@shlomo1.solomon>

I'm not an expert, but as I understand it,
https://shellshock.detectify.com can only check if your box is exposed
to the internet. So if you have an un-patched bash but you are, for
example, protected by a firewall, your un-patched bash wouldn't be
detected.

The site mentioned in the earlier post -
http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/25/what-is-the-shellshock/ is probably
better, because it checks the actual bash vulnerability.

But that's still not the entire story. Here's a link to another article
discussing patches that solve only part of the problem and explains
how to check if you have the latest patch:
http://www.zdnet.com/shellshock-better-bash-patches-now-available-7000034115/



On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:49:47 +0300
Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Dolev Farhi <dolevf at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yes its all over the place.
> >
> that is why I was suprised it was not mentioned in linux-il ;-)
> 
> >
> >
> > For people with web sites, you can use the following online
> > shellshock tester website to check if you are vulnerable in the
> > following url:
> >
> > https://shellshock.detectify.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ------ Original message------
> >
> > *From: *Erez D
> >
> > *Date: *Sat, Sep 27, 2014 16:25
> >
> > *To: *linux-il;
> >
> > *Subject:*shell shock
> >
> >
> > just read about the "new linux bug" in ynet
> > found out it is a bash exploit
> >
> > just fyi,
> >
> > see http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/25/what-is-the-shellshock/
> >
> >



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Sent by Claws Mail 3.9.0 - KDE 4.10.5 - LINUX Mageia 3



From tzahi.ml at gmail.com  Sun Sep 28 16:34:08 2014
From: tzahi.ml at gmail.com (tzahi ml)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 16:34:08 +0300
Subject: Fw: Question about how to make a living from open source
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znWrTBPc=2kfu1LNAddk38fhzmb8HiUq3PpXzdhCdLMAag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140921114933.1050dfdf@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>
 <CANy4znWrTBPc=2kfu1LNAddk38fhzmb8HiUq3PpXzdhCdLMAag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGSJNoYM6WGdYqOsp=wiJejYmU_RUofMB53E8kOt_a0W=e8MLw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Shlomi,
As always, thanks for the comprehensive tips.

A big question that troubles me is if you have to always incorporate for a
cloud/on premise business.
The last incorporation (i am now closing) was costly but the lawyers keep
pushing you to incorporate (hopefully not from a self serving interest).
On one hand, I am currently an independent and I would prefer to stay this
way until the cash justifies an incorporation. OTOH, I want to keep my bank
account safe from law-suites as much as possible.

Would love to hear comments about this...

Thanks!

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif at shlomifish.org>
> Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:49 AM
> Subject: Fw: Question about how to make a living from open source
> To: shlomif at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:48:01 +0300
> From: Shlomi Fish <shlomif at shlomifish.org>
> Cc: "linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il" <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: Re: Question about how to make a living from open source
>
>
> Hi Tzahi,
>
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:40 +0300
> tzahi ml <tzahi.ml at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> > I am in need of assistance.
> >
> > I am currently working as a freelancer coding stuff in a company.
> > However, although I am making good living, this does not scale much (and
> > promotion is out of the question :) ).
> >
> > Anyway, I am looking for ways to scale.
> >
>
> I've written about some business models for web-based publishing here:
>
> https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/MRLntf3xu5Y
>
> Some of them have correspondence to open source. See:
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Alternative profitable business models for Web-based commerce.
>
> This is a list of 5 business models for web-based commerce that do not
> require
> depending on advertising:
>
>
> 1. Collect donations or ask for money for public appearances in advance -
> see
> https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/GUpTuA6641x .
>
> 2. The Flickr model - charge people for a premium model.
>
> 3. The Bandcamp/Humble-Bundle model - pay what you want (people can be very
> generous).
>
> 4. The cloud model - pay for hosting or a MMORPG account
> (World-of-Warcraft/etc.) or whatever.
>
> 5. Pay to liberate - collect money to make a CC-by-nc-sa work CC-by/etc.
>
> 6. Sell merchandise - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI .
>
> 7. One can also set up non-intrusive ads like those provided by
> http://projectwonderful.com/ , but I doubt they'll be profitable.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Another suggestion I can give you is to work a lot on publicity, social
> networking, etc. - both in real life and in Internet-based social media
> venues.
>
> See:
>
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/Objectivism/comments/2c1fue/the_importance_of_human_networking/
>
> A chauffeur with whom I stroke a conversation at a McDonalds restaurant
> close to
> Heathrow airport in London told me he now gets most of his customers from
> social media outlets such as Facebook or Twitter. The newfound
> possibilities
> from real-life and electronic social networking are very much reflected in
> stories here:
>
> * http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Buffy/A-Few-Good-Slayers/
>
> There are plenty of online communities for various topics on the Internet.
> Find some of them that you are interested in and contribute to them. There
> are
> Reddit subreddits, wikis (Wikipedia, Wikia wikis, etc.), IRC channels on
> Freenode/etc., Facebook groups and pages, Twitter feeds, mailing lists,
> etc.
> and you should be able to contribute to some of them.
>
> The greatest threat for any business is obscurity.
>
> You may also wish to invest some money in buying ads, commercials,
> promotions or whatever - nothing wrong with that and this money may be well
> worth it in publicity.
>
> Finally note the Carpe Diem / "He who saved one man has essentially saved
> the
> world entire principle" - don't try to maximise your audience immediately.
> Invest time in each and every friend and recipient:
>
> * http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html#carpe_diem
>
> Finally, I should note that your English does not sound idiomatic
> (although I
> admit I heard much worse). You should work on improving it. See my advice
> for
> how to do that here:
>
> *
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hackers-il/conversations/messages/5143
>
> Regards,
>
>         Shlomi Fish
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/
>
> God helps them that help God help them.
>     ? http://shlomif.livejournal.com/66017.html
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
> What does ?Zionism? mean? - http://shlom.in/def-zionism
>
> Harry: Mr. Mumford, I hereby propose my friend, the beautiful Hermione.
> Hermione: Ahem? actually I kinda have a bad hair day today, so I think
> your assistant should be the beautiful Harry (Potter!) here.
> Harry: Very well, I shall be the beautiful assistant.
>     ? http://is.gd/zsmond
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
>
> Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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