From sara.fink at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 00:46:42 2015
From: sara.fink at gmail.com (sara fink)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 00:46:42 +0200
Subject: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date?
In-Reply-To: <20151130104732.55004ce9@mydesk.domain.cxm>
References: <1448873589.567.182.camel@zak.co.il>
 <20151130104732.55004ce9@mydesk.domain.cxm>
Message-ID: <CAKsgyTb1qOigny2XDc4K6oE9U7TDt-aQpDYvg8SO5FJz=w1BKw@mail.gmail.com>

Gentoo. Kernel is up to date. It has a learning curve, but once you get
used to it, you don't want to go back to other distros. Don't forget it's
compile installation. You can select between systemd or openrc.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems

Great and fast support of the community.

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:53:09 +0200
> Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:
>
>
> > For the new system, I'd like to select an host Linux distribution with
> > stable but up-to-date kernel, Docker and a virtualization system
> > (VirtualBox or other).  For this, Debian Stable (today's Debian
> > Jessie) is not the answer as it gets updated about once each two
> > years.
>
> Hi Omer,
>
> Sounds to me like you're looking for a rolling release: Gentoo, Funtoo,
> Arch, Manjaro, Void etc.
>
> Gentoo and Funtoo are both compile-installation, and both use chroot
> installs exclusively. Arch is a more difficult than average chroot
> install. Manjaro and Void have regular installation programs, although
> Void has facilities to do chroot installations if you prefer.
>
> If you love systemd, Arch is what you want: They're fanatics about
> their beloved systemd. If you hate systemd, Funtoo and Void have
> pledged never to have systemd. If you like daemontools-inspired inits,
> Void Linux inits with Runit (one of the big reasons I chose Void as my
> daily driver).
>
> Manjaro is like Arch with an easy installation program. Also, Manjaro
> is more init agnostic, and in fact offers an "OpenRC Edition".
>
> From what I hear second hand, Void is the one of these rolling releases
> *least* likely to bork your system on an update.
>
> HTH,
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
>      of the Successful Technologist
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Tue Dec  1 11:24:57 2015
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 10:24:57 +0100
Subject: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date?
In-Reply-To: <20151130104732.55004ce9@mydesk.domain.cxm>
References: <1448873589.567.182.camel@zak.co.il>
 <20151130104732.55004ce9@mydesk.domain.cxm>
Message-ID: <20151201092456.GM23928@lemon.cohens.org.il>

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 10:47:32AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:53:09 +0200
> Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:
> 
> 
> > For the new system, I'd like to select an host Linux distribution with
> > stable but up-to-date kernel, 

One feature that is unique (AFAIR) to Debian Stable is that it attempts to
maintain a stable interface to kernel modudles (if you care about this),
which means you don't have to rebuild them on most kernel upgrades. I'm not
aware of other distributions that try to guarantee that.

> > Docker and a virtualization system
> > (VirtualBox or other).  For this, Debian Stable (today's Debian
> > Jessie) is not the answer as it gets updated about once each two
> > years.
> 
> Hi Omer,
> 
> Sounds to me like you're looking for a rolling release: Gentoo, Funtoo,
> Arch, Manjaro, Void etc.

In a rolling release you have to upgrade if you want to apply fixes.

[snip. Various rolling releases discussed. Void was one of them]

> From what I hear second hand, Void is the one of these rolling releases
> *least* likely to bork your system on an update.

I guess the problem is that you have to state it this way.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From w1 at zak.co.il  Tue Dec  1 20:10:35 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:10:35 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
Message-ID: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>

Yesterday I posted my question about selecting a Linux distribution to
serve as the host Linux distribution for a system which runs Docker and
a virtualization system.

For such a system, I'll want to use a stable but up-to-date kernel.

Unstable distributions will be operated inside a virtual machine or a
Docker container, as needed.

Several people responded with suggestions.

Rabin Yasharzadehe suggested Arch and Fedora - both as unstable
distributions.
Shlomi Fish suggested Mageia, which gets a release roughly every 9
months. Its unstable counterpart is Cauldron. He had a problem using
VirtualBox (the virtualization solution which I am currently using) on
Mageia.
Yuval Adam claims that Arch Linux manages to be extremely stable without
losing the ability to get frequent updates.
Jeremy Hoyland suggested the use of Linux Mint. But he said nothing
about its stability.
Steve Litt proposes the use of a rolling release. He recommends Void as
more stable than the alternatives. Unlike me, systemd use or avoidance
is for him a religious issue.
Sara Fink suggests Gentoo, which has what to offer to both sides of the
systemd divide. Not clear how stable is it.
Tzafrir Cohen pointed out that Debian Stable strives to maintain a
stable interface to Kernel modules.

The winners so far are Arch and Void.

Yet another option is to use Debian Stable as the host operating system,
like I did so far, but compile and install my own kernel builds
according to the instructions in places such as:
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-building-installing-a-custom-linux-kernel/

User space programs, which rely upon bleeding-edge features of the
kernel, will be run from containers as needed, thus hopefully
restricting somewhat any damage they could cause.

Thanks to all responders.
--- Omer


-- 
We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children
more than they hate us.
               Golda Meir (Israeli Prime Minister between 1969-1974)
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From rabin at rabin.io  Tue Dec  1 21:37:11 2015
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 21:37:11 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEDzEVPrNuHGjMULD8us5RSXaaTraHqhJzUGuOP_W3-Q7Q@mail.gmail.com>

I never said Fedora is unstable!
Arch can be unstable because it try to be on the bleeding edge,

Fedora is "bleeding edge" as far as a stable release can be.
and it has a short release/support cycle.

--
Rabin

On 1 December 2015 at 20:10, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:

> Yesterday I posted my question about selecting a Linux distribution to
> serve as the host Linux distribution for a system which runs Docker and
> a virtualization system.
>
> For such a system, I'll want to use a stable but up-to-date kernel.
>
> Unstable distributions will be operated inside a virtual machine or a
> Docker container, as needed.
>
> Several people responded with suggestions.
>
> Rabin Yasharzadehe suggested Arch and Fedora - both as unstable
> distributions.
> Shlomi Fish suggested Mageia, which gets a release roughly every 9
> months. Its unstable counterpart is Cauldron. He had a problem using
> VirtualBox (the virtualization solution which I am currently using) on
> Mageia.
> Yuval Adam claims that Arch Linux manages to be extremely stable without
> losing the ability to get frequent updates.
> Jeremy Hoyland suggested the use of Linux Mint. But he said nothing
> about its stability.
> Steve Litt proposes the use of a rolling release. He recommends Void as
> more stable than the alternatives. Unlike me, systemd use or avoidance
> is for him a religious issue.
> Sara Fink suggests Gentoo, which has what to offer to both sides of the
> systemd divide. Not clear how stable is it.
> Tzafrir Cohen pointed out that Debian Stable strives to maintain a
> stable interface to Kernel modules.
>
> The winners so far are Arch and Void.
>
> Yet another option is to use Debian Stable as the host operating system,
> like I did so far, but compile and install my own kernel builds
> according to the instructions in places such as:
>
> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-building-installing-a-custom-linux-kernel/
>
> User space programs, which rely upon bleeding-edge features of the
> kernel, will be run from containers as needed, thus hopefully
> restricting somewhat any damage they could cause.
>
> Thanks to all responders.
> --- Omer
>
>
> --
> We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children
> more than they hate us.
>                Golda Meir (Israeli Prime Minister between 1969-1974)
> My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
>
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
> I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Tue Dec  1 21:35:47 2015
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 19:35:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1512011930280.2575@portkey.home>

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Omer Zak wrote:

> Yet another option is to use Debian Stable as the host operating system,
> like I did so far, but compile and install my own kernel builds
> according to the instructions in places such as:
> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-building-installing-a-custom-linux-kernel/

You can also use Debian Backports to get more recent kernel releases.

deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main contrib non-free

Here's the most recent kernel in jessie-backports at time of writing:

Package: linux-image-4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64
Source: linux
Version: 4.2.6-1~bpo8+1

HTH,
Geoff.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 06:17:55 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 15:17:55 +1100
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1512011930280.2575@portkey.home>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1512011930280.2575@portkey.home>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WXzxOVhB-DkmjWZPfVhve7G=ZxBfq1BB4N8C2W_M8+RwA@mail.gmail.com>

I tried to avoid this discussion but I'm a little surprised that nobody
mentioned Debian Testing.
I've used it as a desktop for a decade or so and it had a great combination
of very good stability (i.e. I can't recall it ever disappointed me) and
still relatively up to date.
But then again - it's been a while since I used it.
These days I use Ubuntu LTS for servers and Mac for laptop, and for a few
months around a year ago also Ubuntu LTS for a work laptop.

On 2 December 2015 at 06:35, Geoff Shang <geoff at quitelikely.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Omer Zak wrote:
>
> Yet another option is to use Debian Stable as the host operating system,
>> like I did so far, but compile and install my own kernel builds
>> according to the instructions in places such as:
>>
>> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-building-installing-a-custom-linux-kernel/
>>
>
> You can also use Debian Backports to get more recent kernel releases.
>
> deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main contrib
> non-free
>
> Here's the most recent kernel in jessie-backports at time of writing:
>
> Package: linux-image-4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64
> Source: linux
> Version: 4.2.6-1~bpo8+1
>
> HTH,
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Wed Dec  2 09:18:08 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2015 09:18:08 +0200
Subject: Debian Testing (was: Re: Summary: Which Linux distribution is
 stable yet up-to-date)
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WXzxOVhB-DkmjWZPfVhve7G=ZxBfq1BB4N8C2W_M8+RwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1512011930280.2575@portkey.home>
 <CAF9n_WXzxOVhB-DkmjWZPfVhve7G=ZxBfq1BB4N8C2W_M8+RwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1449040688.23061.45.camel@zak.co.il>

Actually, Debian Testing is a bad alternative when wishing to trade off
stability vs. being up-to-date.

On one hand, while Debian Testing is mostly stable, things break all the
time (and get fixed within few days). Not good when you depend upon a
working system for your work. The worst breakages occur during the first
weeks after Debian Testing goes out of freeze, following a Debian Stable
release.

On the other hand, Debian Testing gets frozen (except for bug fixes) for
several months each two years or so, while a new Debian Stable release
is being made.

The best use case for Debian Testing is for someone who develops (or
adapts) software for running in a Debian installation, and needs to test
it in a live system.

On my current main PC I use Debian Stable (Debian Jessie at the moment),
and until recently I used Debian Testing on a netbook which I use for
lecture notetaking. I learned early in the game not to update packages
on the netbook for few days before lectures and other events, for which
I need notetaking.

--- Omer


On Wed, 2015-12-02 at 15:17 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote:
> I tried to avoid this discussion but I'm a little surprised that
> nobody mentioned Debian Testing.
> I've used it as a desktop for a decade or so and it had a great
> combination of very good stability (i.e. I can't recall it ever
> disappointed me) and still relatively up to date.
> But then again - it's been a while since I used it.
> 
> These days I use Ubuntu LTS for servers and Mac for laptop, and for a
> few months around a year ago also Ubuntu LTS for a work laptop.
> 
> On 2 December 2015 at 06:35, Geoff Shang <geoff at quitelikely.com>
> wrote:
>         On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Omer Zak wrote:
>         
>                 Yet another option is to use Debian Stable as the host
>                 operating system,
>                 like I did so far, but compile and install my own
>                 kernel builds
>                 according to the instructions in places such as:
>                 http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-building-installing-a-custom-linux-kernel/
>         
>         You can also use Debian Backports to get more recent kernel
>         releases.
>         
>         deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main
>         contrib non-free
>         
>         Here's the most recent kernel in jessie-backports at time of
>         writing:
>         
>         Package: linux-image-4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64
>         Source: linux
>         Version: 4.2.6-1~bpo8+1


-- 
You haven't made an impact on the world before you caused a Debian
release to be named after Snufkin.
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From me at yonahruss.com  Wed Dec  2 09:56:24 2015
From: me at yonahruss.com (Yonah Russ)
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2015 07:56:24 +0000
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAKhjU3ftFJorhiM8QNBeeHS0u6-QZDwBTPEjU6tGfUoxfowkhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I'm not sure what your criteria are but, IMO, for you will be best served
using something very common in the docker community. Ubuntu or Debian are
definitely the most common choices. Docker support Centos/RHEL/Ubuntu for
their commercially supported versions.
Using less standard distros will marginalize your ability to learn from the
community in an uncomfortably small ecosystem.
I personally found that Ubuntu 15.04 downgraded back to upstart works well
and I'm usually not the first to run into any particular problem.


Thanks,
Yonah


On Tue, Dec 1, 2015, 20:12 Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:

Yesterday I posted my question about selecting a Linux distribution to
serve as the host Linux distribution for a system which runs Docker and
a virtualization system.

For such a system, I'll want to use a stable but up-to-date kernel.

Unstable distributions will be operated inside a virtual machine or a
Docker container, as needed.

Several people responded with suggestions.

Rabin Yasharzadehe suggested Arch and Fedora - both as unstable
distributions.
Shlomi Fish suggested Mageia, which gets a release roughly every 9
months. Its unstable counterpart is Cauldron. He had a problem using
VirtualBox (the virtualization solution which I am currently using) on
Mageia.
Yuval Adam claims that Arch Linux manages to be extremely stable without
losing the ability to get frequent updates.
Jeremy Hoyland suggested the use of Linux Mint. But he said nothing
about its stability.
Steve Litt proposes the use of a rolling release. He recommends Void as
more stable than the alternatives. Unlike me, systemd use or avoidance
is for him a religious issue.
Sara Fink suggests Gentoo, which has what to offer to both sides of the
systemd divide. Not clear how stable is it.
Tzafrir Cohen pointed out that Debian Stable strives to maintain a
stable interface to Kernel modules.

The winners so far are Arch and Void.

Yet another option is to use Debian Stable as the host operating system,
like I did so far, but compile and install my own kernel builds
according to the instructions in places such as:
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-building-installing-a-custom-linux-kernel/

User space programs, which rely upon bleeding-edge features of the
kernel, will be run from containers as needed, thus hopefully
restricting somewhat any damage they could cause.

Thanks to all responders.
--- Omer

--
We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children
more than they hate us.
               Golda Meir (Israeli Prime Minister between 1969-1974)
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 12:47:53 2015
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 12:47:53 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Omer and all,

a few recent notes:

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:

> Yesterday I posted my question about selecting a Linux distribution to
> serve as the host Linux distribution for a system which runs Docker and
> a virtualization system.
>
> For such a system, I'll want to use a stable but up-to-date kernel.
>
> Unstable distributions will be operated inside a virtual machine or a
> Docker container, as needed.
>
> Several people responded with suggestions.
>
> Rabin Yasharzadehe suggested Arch and Fedora - both as unstable
> distributions.
> Shlomi Fish suggested Mageia, which gets a release roughly every 9
> months. Its unstable counterpart is Cauldron. He had a problem using
> VirtualBox (the virtualization solution which I am currently using) on
> Mageia.
>

Actually, yesterday I was able to reproduce the aforementioned freeze (on
Xfce the mouse and keyboard completely stop working and I have not choice
but to do a hard reboot) without having ever run VirtualBox in the session
and with an untainted kernel (but while having run KVM). So the problem may
have nothing to do with VBox and may also be peculiar to my machine.


> Yuval Adam claims that Arch Linux manages to be extremely stable without
> losing the ability to get frequent updates.
> Jeremy Hoyland suggested the use of Linux Mint. But he said nothing
> about its stability.
> Steve Litt proposes the use of a rolling release. He recommends Void as
> more stable than the alternatives. Unlike me, systemd use or avoidance
> is for him a religious issue.
> Sara Fink suggests Gentoo, which has what to offer to both sides of the
> systemd divide. Not clear how stable is it.
> Tzafrir Cohen pointed out that Debian Stable strives to maintain a
> stable interface to Kernel modules.
>
> The winners so far are Arch and Void.
>

I would recommend against Arch Linux because, like I said, its
installations can be left in an unusable state if one forgets to update it
frequently enough. I'm not sure about Void Linux as I never used it.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish

-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From yuval at y3xz.com  Wed Dec  2 13:11:45 2015
From: yuval at y3xz.com (Yuval Adam)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 13:11:45 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <565ED1F1.30500@y3xz.com>


> 
> I would recommend against Arch Linux because, like I said, its
> installations can be left in an unusable state if one forgets to update
> it frequently enough. I'm not sure about Void Linux as I never used it.
> 

That's factually incorrect. If you current state is stable, it will
remain stable for eternity as long as no updates are made and you do not
attempy any foolish things like system-wide installations without using
your package manager (why would a stable system become unstable otherwise?)

Of course if you never upgrade you miss out on being on the bleeding
edge of upstream packages, don't receive security updates etc. On an
typical Arch setup it's common to run daily or weekly updates with no
other side affects.

Over the past 3 years I only recall a single severe breakage of my
system due to upgrading that required booting from a rescue USB and
fixing a stupid mistake I made in my bootloader configuration.


From shlomif at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 13:32:20 2015
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 13:32:20 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <565ED1F1.30500@y3xz.com>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565ED1F1.30500@y3xz.com>
Message-ID: <CANy4znWN2EaErCQQPESuwJiyCqzkfWCAyhMW8_oFHnB31Gf+6g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Yuval,


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Yuval Adam <yuval at y3xz.com> wrote:

>
> >
> > I would recommend against Arch Linux because, like I said, its
> > installations can be left in an unusable state if one forgets to update
> > it frequently enough. I'm not sure about Void Linux as I never used it.
> >
>
> That's factually incorrect. If you current state is stable, it will
> remain stable for eternity as long as no updates are made and you do not
> attempy any foolish things like system-wide installations without using
> your package manager (why would a stable system become unstable otherwise?)
>
>
Sorry for being unclear, but by "unusable state" I meant that one can no
longer upgrade the system it using "pacman -Syu" (or whatever the command
is) because it gives errors. The system itself works fine but will run
outdated software applications (and often ones with known security
vulnerabilities). I had to decommission several Arch VMs due to this
problem, and it's a well-known problem for other people that can be found
using web searches.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish

-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From gilboad at gmail.com  Wed Dec  2 19:44:46 2015
From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 19:44:46 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAGw18xKV_4i27_-fLV19+iXE-M8ET748CpE2Tf_4GCWfDb-iEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:
> Yesterday I posted my question about selecting a Linux distribution to
> serve as the host Linux distribution for a system which runs Docker and
> a virtualization system.
>
> For such a system, I'll want to use a stable but up-to-date kernel.
>
> Unstable distributions will be operated inside a virtual machine or a
> Docker container, as needed.
>
> Several people responded with suggestions.
>

Let me chine in.
My company uses Fedora across the board, from netbook, laptop,
desktops, workstations to mid-end (1S/2S) and high-end (4S) servers
and countless VMs.
We also use Fedora in production servers (we require bleeding edge stack(s).
(All in all, >40 machines)

If you can live with the 13 month support cycle, Fedora can be rock solid.

- Gilboa


From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Sat Dec  5 06:27:03 2015
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 23:27:03 -0500
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151204232703.772c3237@mydesk.domain.cxm>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 12:47:53 +0200
Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> wrote:


> I would recommend against Arch Linux because, like I said, its
> installations can be left in an unusable state if one forgets to
> update it frequently enough. I'm not sure about Void Linux as I never
> used it.

I had that happen to me once on Void. A quick posting to Void's IRC
channel got me the magic incantation I needed to overcome a buried
shovel problem.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
     of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques


From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Sat Dec  5 06:47:26 2015
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 23:47:26 -0500
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znWN2EaErCQQPESuwJiyCqzkfWCAyhMW8_oFHnB31Gf+6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565ED1F1.30500@y3xz.com>
 <CANy4znWN2EaErCQQPESuwJiyCqzkfWCAyhMW8_oFHnB31Gf+6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151204234726.46e4fe2a@mydesk.domain.cxm>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 13:32:20 +0200
Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> wrote:


> Sorry for being unclear, but by "unusable state" I meant that one can
> no longer upgrade the system it using "pacman -Syu" (or whatever the
> command is) because it gives errors. The system itself works fine but
> will run outdated software applications (and often ones with known
> security vulnerabilities). 

I've had this happen several times with Manjaro (and therefore I assume
it would happen with Arch also). All the cases of which I'm aware are
solveable like this:

pacman -Syu --ignore badpkgname

The preceding allows the rest of your upgrade to go through. Report the
problem, and in the near future the bad program will be fixed and you
can upgrade the formerly bad package.

It's really unfortunate that, without --ignore, pacman sees fit to go
through the entire the entire upgrade, perhaps a half hour, and then
tell you there's one bad package and upgrade nothing. Fortunately, in
the time I spent with Manjaro, I saw only two or three cases in which a
package refused to install and took the whole pacman -Syu with it.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
     of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques


From shlomif at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 10:51:37 2015
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 10:51:37 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <20151204234726.46e4fe2a@mydesk.domain.cxm>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565ED1F1.30500@y3xz.com>
 <CANy4znWN2EaErCQQPESuwJiyCqzkfWCAyhMW8_oFHnB31Gf+6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20151204234726.46e4fe2a@mydesk.domain.cxm>
Message-ID: <CANy4znW_RCz4rKh2ARXxhnd1nDRZRc13p3nFGrSsbLo6wjMOtg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the tip, Steve!

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 6:47 AM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 13:32:20 +0200
> Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Sorry for being unclear, but by "unusable state" I meant that one can
> > no longer upgrade the system it using "pacman -Syu" (or whatever the
> > command is) because it gives errors. The system itself works fine but
> > will run outdated software applications (and often ones with known
> > security vulnerabilities).
>
> I've had this happen several times with Manjaro (and therefore I assume
> it would happen with Arch also). All the cases of which I'm aware are
> solveable like this:
>
> pacman -Syu --ignore badpkgname
>
> The preceding allows the rest of your upgrade to go through. Report the
> problem, and in the near future the bad program will be fixed and you
> can upgrade the formerly bad package.
>
> It's really unfortunate that, without --ignore, pacman sees fit to go
> through the entire the entire upgrade, perhaps a half hour, and then
> tell you there's one bad package and upgrade nothing. Fortunately, in
> the time I spent with Manjaro, I saw only two or three cases in which a
> package refused to install and took the whole pacman -Syu with it.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
>      of the Successful Technologist
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon Dec  7 13:10:00 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:10:00 +0200
Subject: Summary: Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znW_RCz4rKh2ARXxhnd1nDRZRc13p3nFGrSsbLo6wjMOtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565ED1F1.30500@y3xz.com>
 <CANy4znWN2EaErCQQPESuwJiyCqzkfWCAyhMW8_oFHnB31Gf+6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20151204234726.46e4fe2a@mydesk.domain.cxm>
 <CANy4znW_RCz4rKh2ARXxhnd1nDRZRc13p3nFGrSsbLo6wjMOtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BOdUOwqyLooY8Evg6hUhJLqkXvSjZqXhzvG3Jro97cSOQ@mail.gmail.com>

As mentioned before, Fedora is very stable and has very regular updates.
I also like Ubuntu a lot and since I also don't like Unity I use the
Ubuntu flavour with my favourite DE (After all there's Ubuntu,
Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Lubuntu etc. and after install you can
actually install the other flavours too).

I started on Debian Testing (actually all Debian flavours, along long
time ago) but moved to Ubuntu because I like to on the one hand be
relatively bleeding edge but on the other hand have 'stable' periods
and I think a half year release cycle hits that spot very nicely also
I felt like the ubuntu guys made more of an effort to give me a good
experience as a whole whereas Debian at the time felt much more like a
collection of software which didn't necessarily fit together well.

These things may very well have changed by now but I still think that
Ubuntu with it 'being pinned' for a half a year is preferable over a
rolling release like Debian/Testing though of course it all depends on
your needs and wants.

I just don't get the "I don't like Unity so Ubuntu is not an option"
that's saying "I don't like [DE] and therefore [distro] is not an
option" even though I don't think there is any distro that prevents
you from installing other DEs...

Regards,
Eliyahu - ?????

2015-12-05 10:51 GMT+02:00 Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com>:
> Thanks for the tip, Steve!
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 6:47 AM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 13:32:20 +0200
>> Shlomi Fish <shlomif at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Sorry for being unclear, but by "unusable state" I meant that one can
>> > no longer upgrade the system it using "pacman -Syu" (or whatever the
>> > command is) because it gives errors. The system itself works fine but
>> > will run outdated software applications (and often ones with known
>> > security vulnerabilities).
>>
>> I've had this happen several times with Manjaro (and therefore I assume
>> it would happen with Arch also). All the cases of which I'm aware are
>> solveable like this:
>>
>> pacman -Syu --ignore badpkgname
>>
>> The preceding allows the rest of your upgrade to go through. Report the
>> problem, and in the near future the bad program will be fixed and you
>> can upgrade the formerly bad package.
>>
>> It's really unfortunate that, without --ignore, pacman sees fit to go
>> through the entire the entire upgrade, perhaps a half hour, and then
>> tell you there's one bad package and upgrade nothing. Fortunately, in
>> the time I spent with Manjaro, I saw only two or three cases in which a
>> package refused to install and took the whole pacman -Syu with it.
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>> Steve Litt
>> November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
>>      of the Successful Technologist
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
>
> Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon Dec  7 13:30:07 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:30:07 +0200
Subject: Up-to-date hardware (laptop) recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <565BCF36.5050400@shemesh.biz>
References: <1448787939.567.83.camel@zak.co.il>
 <1448823766.567.132.camel@zak.co.il> <565BCF36.5050400@shemesh.biz>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BMqp4gN63=PAyGz30iTNfRSF4Vuaavkh-6xNmbT-ePv7Q@mail.gmail.com>

I am not going to tell you which laptops to get since my interest goes
to a very different class (you are looking for DTR/Mobile Workstation,
I want Ultra mobile with touch), the only thing that I think does need
to be mentioned is the docking station.

You mentioned above you were considering to use one, though the laptop
hardware itself often tends to be supported well on Linux the docking
stations in my experience have tended to be the Achilles heel which
also tend to be documented way less since they are used less.

I used to also have a heavier larger laptop but once I switched to a
model that weighed less the 1.5kg there is no going back (and
generally for what I do they pack more then enough punch, I recently
replaced the HDD with an SSD and hope it will last me for another
year-2years before finally buying a new laptop by then with 8 or 16 or
more GB of RAM....)

BTW has anyone noticed how long we have been 'stuck' on 4GB RAM being
enough memory....

Regards,
Eliyahu - ?????

2015-11-30 6:23 GMT+02:00 Shachar Shemesh <shachar at shemesh.biz>:
> On 29/11/15 21:02, Omer Zak wrote:
>
> (1/9) Shachar Shemesh/Roman Ovseitsev:
> Why connect internal monitor + 3 external monitors?
>
> My response:
> I was not clear in expressing my wishes.
> What I'd like to be able is to work at home with three monitors. I do
> not care if it is 3 external monitors (with disabled internal monitor)
> or 2 external monitors with an active internal monitor.
>
> Roman Ovseitsev's point about Skylake based laptop: not relevant since I
> do not need more than 3 monitors total.
>
> My laptop has a fairly basic adapter. I seem to recall, though I have no
> idea when I tried, that only two monitors simulteneously are supported. I'm
> fairly certain that this is a GPU memory issue, though, as xrandr does list
> a hefty list of potential ports (including, when docked, subdisplays of the
> display port).
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> (2/9) Shachar Shemesh:
> Recommends Dell, which has reasonable Linux support.
> Uses Dell Latitude E7440.
>
> My response:
> What does "reasonable" mean here? Are there any features not well
> supported by Linux?
> Do other models in the E7000 series have as good reputation? If yes,
> I'll check if any of them supports total of 3 displays.
>
> I can't think of anything that did not work for me, including setting the
> track pad sensitivity, controlling the built in keyboard backlight from the
> keyboard shortcut, and disabling/enabling the trackpad from the keyboard
> shortcuts. Ubuntu 15.04 with kubuntu proved somewhat unstable when
> docking/undocking (or, generally, when adding and removing the external
> monitor). If you're willing to live with "dock, set monitor state, logout
> and log in", then this is nothing serious.
>
> I've also had trouble with the external monitor going blank when docked
> sometimes. I've ended up swapping and swapping and swapping hardware with
> others in the office, eventually blaming the motherboard. Dell's support
> replaced it, and eventually the problem was resolved (it has recently came
> back, but I havn't started the hardware swapping debugging yet).
>
> So, all in all, I have not come across anything that did not work for me.
> You don't even need Windows/Dos to upgrade the BIOS. Just place the BIOS
> upgrade file (an .EXE) on the UEFI boot partition, and use the BIOS boot
> menu to select "BIOS upgrade".
>
> There are some driver bugs, but nothing serious IMHO.
>
> (5/9) Boris Shtrasman:
> How about Legacy and UEFI (or only UEFI) mode?
>
> My response:
> UEFI should be OK, but I need to disable secure boot so that I'll be
> able to upgrade Linux kernels at whim.
>
> At least Ubuntu have a signed GRUB, which means that the kernels need not be
> signed at all (which defeats the whole purpose of secure UEFI, but that's
> Microsoft's problem, not ours). My laptop does, in fact, support legacy
> boot, but I ended up using UEFI anyways (I wanted to experiment with it). I
> did end up disabling the secure UEFI boot, though I don't think I had to.
>
> One thing I did not expect was during motherboard replaement. With UEFI the
> BIOS needs to know which OSes it is booting, which means that merely
> replacing the BIOS and plugging in the same disk would not boot. The BIOS
> has Windows preconfigured, but that's no help for obvious reasons. You need
> to keep an Ubuntu DoK handy and do recovery reinstall of GRUB to get the
> machine going again.
>
> Also, Ubuntu install has great difficulty to install a legacy boot Ubuntu if
> the live DoK was booted in UEFI mode and vice versa. Keep that in mind
> during initial installation.
>
> Their standard way to create the DoK these days is to take the ISO and dd it
> on a DoK. This, suprisingly, creates a DoK that is bootable in both legacy
> and UEFI mode. They managed to cram a bootloader, a UEFI boot partition and
> an El Torrito boot loader in to the same image.
>
> Shachar
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>


From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Mon Dec  7 17:48:17 2015
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 10:48:17 -0500
Subject: We succeeded: was Which Linux distribution is stable yet up-to-date
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BOdUOwqyLooY8Evg6hUhJLqkXvSjZqXhzvG3Jro97cSOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1448993435.23061.31.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CANy4znU7iHeOdaOuu0DQeTjQf8rJ4K_yg5iW=TfVnmoxFumSxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565ED1F1.30500@y3xz.com>
 <CANy4znWN2EaErCQQPESuwJiyCqzkfWCAyhMW8_oFHnB31Gf+6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20151204234726.46e4fe2a@mydesk.domain.cxm>
 <CANy4znW_RCz4rKh2ARXxhnd1nDRZRc13p3nFGrSsbLo6wjMOtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BOdUOwqyLooY8Evg6hUhJLqkXvSjZqXhzvG3Jro97cSOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151207104817.10455208@mydesk.domain.cxm>

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:10:00 +0200
"E.S. Rosenberg" <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:


> I just don't get the "I don't like Unity so Ubuntu is not an option"
> that's saying "I don't like [DE] and therefore [distro] is not an
> option" even though I don't think there is any distro that prevents
> you from installing other DEs...

"I don't like Unity so Ubuntu is not an option" is stated by computer
users. Not power-users. Not computer enthusiasts. Not POSIX
knowledgeable people. Just people who need a computer to do certain
tasks. The types who formerly used Windows and Mac before there was a
better alternative.

Last century our goal was to make Linux easy enough so that just plain
computer users would choose and use it. We succeeded. So now we get "I
don't like Unity so Ubuntu is not an option".

We succeeded. Personally, I think our next task is to pull the just
plain users up to our level, before they pull Linux down to theirs.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
     of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques


From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Mon Dec  7 18:18:25 2015
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 11:18:25 -0500
Subject: 4GB: was Up-to-date hardware (laptop) recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BMqp4gN63=PAyGz30iTNfRSF4Vuaavkh-6xNmbT-ePv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1448787939.567.83.camel@zak.co.il>
 <1448823766.567.132.camel@zak.co.il> <565BCF36.5050400@shemesh.biz>
 <CAHTx_BMqp4gN63=PAyGz30iTNfRSF4Vuaavkh-6xNmbT-ePv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151207111825.2ce67b25@mydesk.domain.cxm>

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:30:07 +0200
"E.S. Rosenberg" <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:

> BTW has anyone noticed how long we have been 'stuck' on 4GB RAM being
> enough memory....

I have.

In July 2011 I bought each of my triplets a laptop they could use for
their freshman year college in the fall of 2011. At the time it seemed
like Moore's law was slowing down: It seemed like 4GB had been the most
common laptop configuration for a year or two, and it had been slowly
descending in price. I bought each of the three laptops for just under
$400USD each.

People their age are very hard on laptops. They drop them. They use
them 10 hours a day. They use them in bed, on the blankets, where
there's no ventilation. They stumble on the power cord and break the
power jack. Bottom line, during the 4 years they were in college, I
needed to buy each of them two additional laptops.

During that time, I noticed prices didn't drop, nor did RAM expand at
the same price. First there was the touchscreen thing, which seemed to
add about $200 to the price. So 4GB laptops went up into the high
$500's. As touchscreens came down in price, 4GB laptops seemed to
settle in the low $400's. It was the first time I can remember two
years passing where either features didn't get better or price get
lower (I don't consider touchscreen a feature).

One of my daughters graduated from college last June. My son graduates
in a few days. In the last few months, I've *finally* seen the price
per Gig of laptop RAM go down. 4G laptops have finally achieved their
2011 lows, and a few weeks ago Costco was featuring a 6 or 8GB laptop
for less than $400.

And of course, now laptops and desktops aren't even a commodity
anymore: The major marketplace is the various kinds of "devices" and
"reconfigurables". With desktops it's no big deal: It's cheap and easy
to slam together a 16GB box. With laptops, I wonder if we'll ever get
better than what's happening now.

Moore's law is dying.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
     of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon Dec  7 18:55:09 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:55:09 +0200
Subject: 4GB: was Up-to-date hardware (laptop) recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20151207111825.2ce67b25@mydesk.domain.cxm>
References: <1448787939.567.83.camel@zak.co.il>
 <1448823766.567.132.camel@zak.co.il> <565BCF36.5050400@shemesh.biz>
 <CAHTx_BMqp4gN63=PAyGz30iTNfRSF4Vuaavkh-6xNmbT-ePv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20151207111825.2ce67b25@mydesk.domain.cxm>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BN3w=_UErNQKzAs1k4YzWXNevCb6_i37iw8vkkoXmWzFg@mail.gmail.com>

The thing is that I don't feel a very strong need for more memory...
Of course Linux has always been way better at memory management then
the competition so that may be a factor in things...

Yes firefox has a huge memory footprint, but most of that isn't
required in main memory at any given moment and these days I guess I
stopped playing so much with movie/image editing I also think the SSD
has alleviated the need for large main memory a bit....

With the SSD programs on my laptop seem to start almost
instantaneously, boot/reboot also take nothing, it used to be that I
would go get a drink while I rebooted to update the kernel or
something similar now before I manage to turn my back on the computer
it already rebooted....

As far as features & prices went for the past years they did
change/improve just not so much in RAM, CPUs improved, GPUs (discrete
or integrated), chipsets, weight, screens ssds etc....

Regards,
Eliyahu - ?????

2015-12-07 18:18 GMT+02:00 Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>:
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:30:07 +0200
> "E.S. Rosenberg" <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:
>
>> BTW has anyone noticed how long we have been 'stuck' on 4GB RAM being
>> enough memory....
>
> I have.
>
> In July 2011 I bought each of my triplets a laptop they could use for
> their freshman year college in the fall of 2011. At the time it seemed
> like Moore's law was slowing down: It seemed like 4GB had been the most
> common laptop configuration for a year or two, and it had been slowly
> descending in price. I bought each of the three laptops for just under
> $400USD each.
>
> People their age are very hard on laptops. They drop them. They use
> them 10 hours a day. They use them in bed, on the blankets, where
> there's no ventilation. They stumble on the power cord and break the
> power jack. Bottom line, during the 4 years they were in college, I
> needed to buy each of them two additional laptops.
>
> During that time, I noticed prices didn't drop, nor did RAM expand at
> the same price. First there was the touchscreen thing, which seemed to
> add about $200 to the price. So 4GB laptops went up into the high
> $500's. As touchscreens came down in price, 4GB laptops seemed to
> settle in the low $400's. It was the first time I can remember two
> years passing where either features didn't get better or price get
> lower (I don't consider touchscreen a feature).
>
> One of my daughters graduated from college last June. My son graduates
> in a few days. In the last few months, I've *finally* seen the price
> per Gig of laptop RAM go down. 4G laptops have finally achieved their
> 2011 lows, and a few weeks ago Costco was featuring a 6 or 8GB laptop
> for less than $400.
>
> And of course, now laptops and desktops aren't even a commodity
> anymore: The major marketplace is the various kinds of "devices" and
> "reconfigurables". With desktops it's no big deal: It's cheap and easy
> to slam together a 16GB box. With laptops, I wonder if we'll ever get
> better than what's happening now.
>
> Moore's law is dying.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
>      of the Successful Technologist
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il


From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 11:13:44 2015
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 11:13:44 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
Message-ID: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>

My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about 
the Pi Zero.

I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him a 
Pi he could use.

He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.

He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read Hebrew.  
I will be mentoring and need English.

Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?

Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not the 
Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub or 
cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on. 
Basically, a plug and play system?

TIA.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Tue Dec  8 11:45:51 2015
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 09:45:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1512080942370.2575@portkey.home>

Hi,

Two years ago, I bought mine from lion.co.il.  I can't read the site (my 
Hebrew is extremely poor), but they appear to still sell it.

When I bought it, I got everything I needed - board, case, power supply, 
memory card, etc.

I do remember writing my own image, but I needed one that would talk so 
would have had to anyway.  They may sell pre-written cards, not sure. 
But writing an image of Raspbian or something else pi-specific is pretty 
trivial.  Just make sure you download an image that works with whichever 
model Pi you get.

HTH,
Geoff.



From lior at okman.name  Tue Dec  8 12:15:12 2015
From: lior at okman.name (Lior Okman)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 12:15:12 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALXNYum_Ra4D5=xY8oikoqoyKHy7D5JGFxq7Hmdibpourb2WFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 11:13 AM, geoffrey mendelson <
geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about the
> Pi Zero.
>
> I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him a Pi
> he could use.
>
> He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
>
> He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read Hebrew.  I
> will be mentoring and need English.
>
> Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
>
> Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not the
> Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub or
> cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on.
> Basically, a plug and play system?
>

If you want the plug-and-play kit, one place you could find it is here:
http://www.adafruit.com/products/2380 .

Of-course you can also assemble each component on your own. You can find
all of the components locally if you want, but I don't think you can find a
kit locally.

--
Lior


>
> TIA.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From kaplanlior at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 12:18:18 2015
From: kaplanlior at gmail.com (Lior Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 12:18:18 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <CALXNYum_Ra4D5=xY8oikoqoyKHy7D5JGFxq7Hmdibpourb2WFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
 <CALXNYum_Ra4D5=xY8oikoqoyKHy7D5JGFxq7Hmdibpourb2WFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEsznC5EDL9FVQgy+jxDRa-XH0=i5nHWQpk_u5b4iXQnvfTGeQ@mail.gmail.com>

I ordered a year ago from www.talmir.co.il (self pickup or fast delivery).

Kaplan

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Lior Okman <lior at okman.name> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 11:13 AM, geoffrey mendelson <
> geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about the
>> Pi Zero.
>>
>> I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him a
>> Pi he could use.
>>
>> He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
>>
>> He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read Hebrew.  I
>> will be mentoring and need English.
>>
>> Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
>>
>> Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not the
>> Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub or
>> cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on.
>> Basically, a plug and play system?
>>
>
> If you want the plug-and-play kit, one place you could find it is here:
> http://www.adafruit.com/products/2380 .
>
> Of-course you can also assemble each component on your own. You can find
> all of the components locally if you want, but I don't think you can find a
> kit locally.
>
> --
> Lior
>
>
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
>> Jerusalem Israel.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 13:47:26 2015
From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 13:47:26 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151208134726.5dbdd813@shlomo1.solomon>

Don't forget eBay. I have 2 PIs - one bought locally and one for a
better price on eBay and both work fine. HDMI cables, cases, etc are
certainly cheaper on eBay. For example, I bought cases for about 10
shekels and a 2 meter HDMI cable costs about 6 shekels.

You really don't need a "kit" unless you're referring to add ons to
run electronics experiments, robots, etc. The basic setup only
requires the PI, HDMI cable, charger, cat5 cable, microSD card and the
downloadable NOOBS installation software. 

Depending on whether you'll run it "headless" or not, you may also need
a keyboard, mouse and monitor. You could also use those for one-time
setup and then go "headless" - connect over a VPN or ssh.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 11:13:44 +0200
geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about 
> the Pi Zero.
> 
> I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him
> a Pi he could use.
> 
> He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
> 
> He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read
> Hebrew. I will be mentoring and need English.
> 
> Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
> 
> Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not
> the Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB
> hub or cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system,
> and so on. Basically, a plug and play system?
> 
> TIA.
> 
> Geoff.
> 



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Sent by Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.5 - LINUX Mageia 5



From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Tue Dec  8 13:50:18 2015
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 12:50:18 +0100
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151208115017.GA18553@lemon.cohens.org.il>

On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 11:13:44AM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
> My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about the Pi
> Zero.
> 
> I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him a Pi
> he could use.
> 
> He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
> 
> He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read Hebrew.  I
> will be mentoring and need English.
> 
> Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
> 
> Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not the
> Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub or
> cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on.
> Basically, a plug and play system?

Pi board, case: yeah, get from the store.

HDMI Cable, USB Hub: just get from any local shop.

SD: Either order, or buy an SD, download an image and dd / cat / cp it
to the SD yourself (requires an SD "reader", but it is a raher common
equipment).

Power supply: A decent one of a mobile phone will likely do, IIRC, and
those are likewise common.

That said, there may also be other useful hardware addons. 
For instance, a breadboard, some LEDs, switches and resistors (which,
again, you could find in a local electronics shop. Hopefully. I did find
one in the not so central place I reside. Well, except the breadboard).

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From wordz2u at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 14:30:16 2015
From: wordz2u at gmail.com (Steve G.)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:30:16 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <20151208115017.GA18553@lemon.cohens.org.il>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
 <20151208115017.GA18553@lemon.cohens.org.il>
Message-ID: <CAJAZ2DQvDCq3ONhNiDyyCN_8uYtGbcFMwD6UAxA7jLtRaNL35g@mail.gmail.com>

You can get a kit from Amazon, and they will ship to Israel if you choose
the right product. The kit includes the hdmi cable, SD, breadboard,
resistors, diodes, wifi dongle heat sinks and possibly 1-2 more items. Make
sure the particular vendor ships to Israel - not all do.

You can also buy direct from vendors, adafruit is one, there are links to
others on the raspi web site.

while you're at it, why not get the compatible camera and gps.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 11:13:44AM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
> > My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about
> the Pi
> > Zero.
> >
> > I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him a
> Pi
> > he could use.
> >
> > He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
> >
> > He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read Hebrew.  I
> > will be mentoring and need English.
> >
> > Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
> >
> > Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not the
> > Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub or
> > cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on.
> > Basically, a plug and play system?
>
> Pi board, case: yeah, get from the store.
>
> HDMI Cable, USB Hub: just get from any local shop.
>
> SD: Either order, or buy an SD, download an image and dd / cat / cp it
> to the SD yourself (requires an SD "reader", but it is a raher common
> equipment).
>
> Power supply: A decent one of a mobile phone will likely do, IIRC, and
> those are likewise common.
>
> That said, there may also be other useful hardware addons.
> For instance, a breadboard, some LEDs, switches and resistors (which,
> again, you could find in a local electronics shop. Hopefully. I did find
> one in the not so central place I reside. Well, except the breadboard).
>
> --
> Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
> http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
> tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
> tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
Sincerely,

Steve

http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)

http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
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From amichai at iglu.org.il  Thu Dec 10 14:42:23 2015
From: amichai at iglu.org.il (Amichai Rotman)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:42:23 +0200
Subject: Code Monkey by Matach - Outrageous!
Message-ID: <CAD_ZK64GZhavO4oK=JNmOmDnf1NjVCwZC8kYvfeQBdszamssSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

My kids got an offer to participate in the Code Monkey competition. I was
directed to enter the Matach Web site to start training the monkey (sounds
soooo bad!)

I was disgusted by the landing page - you take a look and guess why:

http://ebag.cet.ac.il/

My question is: Why does the official Education in Israel promote a private
company with obvious interest in making money, and so strongly objects
FLOSS solutions?!

As far as I know, it is common practice in Europe and the United States...

How can we change this?

How can I check if there's even one line of free software code behind the
Code Monkey business?!

I'll appreciate any information / opinion on FLOSS solutions in the
official Israeli edukation... (typo deliberate).

Amichai Rotman
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From ladypine at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 01:11:50 2015
From: ladypine at gmail.com (Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 01:11:50 +0200
Subject: Code Monkey by Matach - Outrageous!
In-Reply-To: <CAD_ZK64GZhavO4oK=JNmOmDnf1NjVCwZC8kYvfeQBdszamssSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK64GZhavO4oK=JNmOmDnf1NjVCwZC8kYvfeQBdszamssSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA8-RXhMgdC8xSX6eSFp67q9KNb8ZP5i+Eg5DMTTjY5JPau6nA@mail.gmail.com>

Amichai,

Actually, I have no idea why you were disgusted. The Ofek website usually
supports Linux with Chrome or Firefox rather well (though not always).
4  years ago, we only had a problem with about 5% of the content, and this
year I do not recall a single issue.

Orna

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My kids got an offer to participate in the Code Monkey competition. I was
> directed to enter the Matach Web site to start training the monkey (sounds
> soooo bad!)
>
> I was disgusted by the landing page - you take a look and guess why:
>
> http://ebag.cet.ac.il/
>
> My question is: Why does the official Education in Israel promote a
> private company with obvious interest in making money, and so strongly
> objects FLOSS solutions?!
>
> As far as I know, it is common practice in Europe and the United States...
>
> How can we change this?
>
> How can I check if there's even one line of free software code behind the
> Code Monkey business?!
>
> I'll appreciate any information / opinion on FLOSS solutions in the
> official Israeli edukation... (typo deliberate).
>
> Amichai Rotman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
http://ladypine.org
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Fri Dec 11 15:07:17 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:07:17 +0200
Subject: Code Monkey by Matach - Outrageous!
In-Reply-To: <CAA8-RXhMgdC8xSX6eSFp67q9KNb8ZP5i+Eg5DMTTjY5JPau6nA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK64GZhavO4oK=JNmOmDnf1NjVCwZC8kYvfeQBdszamssSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA8-RXhMgdC8xSX6eSFp67q9KNb8ZP5i+Eg5DMTTjY5JPau6nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BMHm6HaXxKntCiDtJ4o_PtJhCUDHvz8GEEpvso0LaCa4w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty sure it's the design....
It would be cool if you offered multiple 'shells' ;)

2015-12-11 1:11 GMT+02:00 Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com>:
> Amichai,
>
> Actually, I have no idea why you were disgusted. The Ofek website usually
> supports Linux with Chrome or Firefox rather well (though not always).
> 4  years ago, we only had a problem with about 5% of the content, and this
> year I do not recall a single issue.
>
> Orna
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> My kids got an offer to participate in the Code Monkey competition. I was
>> directed to enter the Matach Web site to start training the monkey (sounds
>> soooo bad!)
>>
>> I was disgusted by the landing page - you take a look and guess why:
>>
>> http://ebag.cet.ac.il/
>>
>> My question is: Why does the official Education in Israel promote a
>> private company with obvious interest in making money, and so strongly
>> objects FLOSS solutions?!
>>
>> As far as I know, it is common practice in Europe and the United States...
>>
>> How can we change this?
>>
>> How can I check if there's even one line of free software code behind the
>> Code Monkey business?!
>>
>> I'll appreciate any information / opinion on FLOSS solutions in the
>> official Israeli edukation... (typo deliberate).
>>
>> Amichai Rotman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
> http://ladypine.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>


From ladypine at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 20:49:34 2015
From: ladypine at gmail.com (Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 20:49:34 +0200
Subject: Code Monkey by Matach - Outrageous!
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BMHm6HaXxKntCiDtJ4o_PtJhCUDHvz8GEEpvso0LaCa4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK64GZhavO4oK=JNmOmDnf1NjVCwZC8kYvfeQBdszamssSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA8-RXhMgdC8xSX6eSFp67q9KNb8ZP5i+Eg5DMTTjY5JPau6nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMHm6HaXxKntCiDtJ4o_PtJhCUDHvz8GEEpvso0LaCa4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA8-RXgk3RKdrKa-PC6qYW5piqhjS-TR4-wskNcTJ=j997tRrw@mail.gmail.com>

Clarification - when I said "we" I meant our family, and in particular our
9 year old daughter who has been using this website since first grade. I am
not affiliated with Ofek in any way :)

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:07 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il>
wrote:

> I'm pretty sure it's the design....
> It would be cool if you offered multiple 'shells' ;)
>
> 2015-12-11 1:11 GMT+02:00 Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com>:
> > Amichai,
> >
> > Actually, I have no idea why you were disgusted. The Ofek website usually
> > supports Linux with Chrome or Firefox rather well (though not always).
> > 4  years ago, we only had a problem with about 5% of the content, and
> this
> > year I do not recall a single issue.
> >
> > Orna
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> My kids got an offer to participate in the Code Monkey competition. I
> was
> >> directed to enter the Matach Web site to start training the monkey
> (sounds
> >> soooo bad!)
> >>
> >> I was disgusted by the landing page - you take a look and guess why:
> >>
> >> http://ebag.cet.ac.il/
> >>
> >> My question is: Why does the official Education in Israel promote a
> >> private company with obvious interest in making money, and so strongly
> >> objects FLOSS solutions?!
> >>
> >> As far as I know, it is common practice in Europe and the United
> States...
> >>
> >> How can we change this?
> >>
> >> How can I check if there's even one line of free software code behind
> the
> >> Code Monkey business?!
> >>
> >> I'll appreciate any information / opinion on FLOSS solutions in the
> >> official Israeli edukation... (typo deliberate).
> >>
> >> Amichai Rotman
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Linux-il mailing list
> >> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> >> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
> > http://ladypine.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >
>



-- 
Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
http://ladypine.org
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From amichai at iglu.org.il  Sat Dec 12 12:04:04 2015
From: amichai at iglu.org.il (Amichai Rotman)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:04:04 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
Message-ID: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Can someone explain to me, once and for all, what's the issue with entering
keyboard shortcuts (i.e.: CTRL-C) while in Hebrew Layout in LibreOffice on
Ubuntu?

I call it an issue, because I understand it isn't a bug. It has something
to do with the text entry in Ubuntu, and if I change the text entry mode -
problem solved!

I really hate having to switch to English every time I need to copy or pate
text...

I promise I'll write up a Hebrew HOWTO guide for the community, as soon as
i successfully fix this annoyance.

Thanks!

Amichai Rotman
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Sat Dec 12 12:18:47 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:18:47 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1449915527.6260.13.camel@zak.co.il>

I encounter this issue when I edit Hebrew text in Emacs.
An example:
When I hit the keys Ctrl and "S" to start a search in Emacs, the command
is decoded as C-s when in English mode, but as C-? when in Hebrew mode.

Then it turns out that C-? is not recognized.  In the case of Emacs, it
probably can be fixed by binding C-? and other Hebrew key combinations
to the same actions as the corresponding English key combinations.

In browsers, the problem used to exist, but it was fixed long time ago.
I just confirmed that also my E-mail client software handles correctly
Hebrew mode.

--- Omer



On Sat, 2015-12-12 at 12:04 +0200, Amichai Rotman wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> Can someone explain to me, once and for all, what's the issue with
> entering keyboard shortcuts (i.e.: CTRL-C) while in Hebrew Layout in
> LibreOffice on Ubuntu?
> 
> 
> I call it an issue, because I understand it isn't a bug. It has
> something to do with the text entry in Ubuntu, and if I change the
> text entry mode - problem solved!
> 
> 
> I really hate having to switch to English every time I need to copy or
> pate text...
> 
> 
> I promise I'll write up a Hebrew HOWTO guide for the community, as
> soon as i successfully fix this annoyance.


-- 
Feedback from one of the visitors to my
http://www.zak.co.il/deaf-info/old/ Web site:
"I found nothing helpful at this site so go to hell. Fuckers"
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From amichai at iglu.org.il  Sat Dec 12 12:53:24 2015
From: amichai at iglu.org.il (Amichai Rotman)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:53:24 +0200
Subject: Fwd: By 12/15: Send us comments to rally the Dept. of Ed. toward free
 licensing
In-Reply-To: <E1a6MmQ-0003zA-J7@crmserver1p.fsf.org>
References: <E1a6MmQ-0003zA-J7@crmserver1p.fsf.org>
Message-ID: <CAD_ZK65D=xGBJMetigM4vFWuy8ATQoLwLzo9pPHDbbFe1ah1tQ@mail.gmail.com>

I guess some of you will find this interesting...

Amichai.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Free Software Foundation <info at fsf.org>
Date: 2015-12-08 20:14 GMT+02:00
Subject: By 12/15: Send us comments to rally the Dept. of Ed. toward free
licensing
To: Amichai Rotman ??<amichai at iglu.org.il>??

[image: Free Software Foundation]

The U.S. Department of Education has issued a notice of proposed rule
making (NPRM) with a request for comments from the public regarding new
regulations relating to the licensing of grant-funded works -- both
software and courseware.

These proposed regulations
<http://tech.ed.gov/files/2014/06/OET-Open-License-NPRM-FINAL-Web-Posting.pdf>
are meant to facilitate public reuse of works funded by Department of
Education grants. Currently, as explained in the NPRM, grantees are allowed
to make their federally-funded works proprietary. The Department of
Education receives a special license to share the works with the public,
but in practice it rarely does so. Worse, teachers and students absolutely
cannot use them in freedom (except for those few that happen to be made
free).

Since the course materials are works of practical use, they should carry
the four freedoms of free software, just as programs and manuals should
<https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html>.

The proposal would require grantees to publish the works under an "open"
license. In the case of software, they may be thinking of "open source",
which is not quite as strong as free; in the case of courseware, many
"open" courses are *not* free. The flaw in the proposed specific rules is
that they don't require that the license permit redistribution of modified
versions. Without that freedom, the works will be nonfree.

With a small change, this proposal will more clearly do what is needed. The
small change is to add "redistribution of modified versions" to the list of
uses these works must permit users to do.

If you are a US citizen or you are living in the US, then you can help make
that change happen by submitting a comment advocating it.

If you are not a US citizen, then we hope you will use this as an
opportunity to reach out to the department of education or the appropriate
government rule makers in your own country and encourage them to adopt
similar rules -- ones that require grant funded works of a functional
nature be distributed under free licenses. If you do contact your own
government with such a request, please, email licensing at fsf.org and let us
know!

Unfortunately, submitting a comment digitally <http://www.regulations.gov>
requires the user to run nonfree JavaScript (JS) code
<https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html>. We are taking a
stand against that by submitting the FSF's comment another way. We are
going to submit it by post so that it gets to the DOE by Friday, December
18th (the date comments are due).

To help you submit a comment without running the US government's nonfree
JS, we offer to print and send your comment along with ours. To do that, we
need to receive your comment by email sent to licensing at fsf.org with the
subject "DOE comment" by 12:00PM EST on December 15th. We can print PDF
files, ODF files and plain text. You need to follow the rules for
submissions 100%, because we don't have staff to correct even minor errors.
The eRulemaking Initiative has some guidance on how to write a good comment
<http://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_For_Submitting_Effective_Comments.pdf>.
But in the very least: your comment should clearly cite the above
referenced NPRM, it should express your support for these proposed
regulations, and it should cite the exact section (?3474.20 (a)) that you
believe should be updated and why you think it should, including any
relevant personal or professional experience or knowledge.

We may skip comments that are too long or that are inconsistent with the
goal. Please say in your email message whether you give permission for us
to publish your comment.

While we would like to deliver a large packet of comments to the Department
of Education, you can also mail your own: address them to Sharon Leu, U.S.
Department of Education, 400 Maryland Avenue SW., Room 6W252, Washington,
DC 20202-5900.

In addition, if you are interested in becoming a cosigner to the comment
the FSF is going to write and submit, then please email us at
licensing at fsf.org with the subject "DOE comment cosigner." In your email
please provide your full name, city and state, and be aware that we will be
making that information public as part of publishing our comment.

Lastly, there should be no doubt in your mind that the FSF's work in free
licensing, licensing education, and advocacy has played a meaningful part
in the circumstances that have lead to the US Department of Education
reforming its policy from promoting proprietary works to one that requires
the development of only free works. We know that the GNU GPL and the FSF's
work in free licensing education serves as a guiding light to policy makers
everywhere. But, in order for us to continue positively influencing public
policy, we need your help: please, become an associate member or make a
donation today <https://www.fsf.org/appeal>.

*Read this online:
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/send-comments-to-doe-12-15
<https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/send-comments-to-doe-12-15>*

Follow us on GNU social <https://status.fsf.org/fsf> | Subscribe to our
blogs via RSS <https://fsf.org/blogs/RSS> | Join us as an associate member
<https://www.fsf.org/jf>

Sent from the Free Software Foundation,
51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor
Boston, Massachusetts 02110-1335
UNITED STATES

Unsubscribe
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From kaplanlior at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 13:04:01 2015
From: kaplanlior at gmail.com (Lior Kaplan)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:04:01 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEsznC6RwhiBfOKSpinv=jc_u-dP=UbXnmTfxWU6OD2xOon_Vw@mail.gmail.com>

LibreOffice used to have a problem with this, but it got fixed a few
releases ago: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41169

I don't any any issues with LibrePffice 5.0.x on Debian testing (tried
CTRL+B, CTRL+C and CTRL+V while in Hebrew layout).

Kaplan


On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Can someone explain to me, once and for all, what's the issue with
> entering keyboard shortcuts (i.e.: CTRL-C) while in Hebrew Layout in
> LibreOffice on Ubuntu?
>
> I call it an issue, because I understand it isn't a bug. It has something
> to do with the text entry in Ubuntu, and if I change the text entry mode -
> problem solved!
>
> I really hate having to switch to English every time I need to copy or
> pate text...
>
> I promise I'll write up a Hebrew HOWTO guide for the community, as soon as
> i successfully fix this annoyance.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Amichai Rotman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From amichai at iglu.org.il  Sat Dec 12 13:39:46 2015
From: amichai at iglu.org.il (Amichai Rotman)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:39:46 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <CAEsznC6RwhiBfOKSpinv=jc_u-dP=UbXnmTfxWU6OD2xOon_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEsznC6RwhiBfOKSpinv=jc_u-dP=UbXnmTfxWU6OD2xOon_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD_ZK64tJXgwsyh6Kx=5W9-p97=gPEg9qtB_BSe8Lmn6ax3n4g@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry,

Tried your solution:

Check the "Ignore System Language Input" in the Language settings.

No cigar...

I also noticed people report the bug still exists.

I am using Ubuntu 14.04 with Unity DE. I think it is related to the
Keyboard Input Method System in the Language Settings. It is currently set
to 'none'. Setting it to 'IBus' didn't change anything. I read somewhere I
sould change it to 'xkbd' - but i am not sure and I don't  know how to do
it...

Amichai.

2015-12-12 13:04 GMT+02:00 Lior Kaplan <kaplanlior at gmail.com>:

> LibreOffice used to have a problem with this, but it got fixed a few
> releases ago: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41169
>
> I don't any any issues with LibrePffice 5.0.x on Debian testing (tried
> CTRL+B, CTRL+C and CTRL+V while in Hebrew layout).
>
> Kaplan
>
>
On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Can someone explain to me, once and for all, what's the issue with
> entering keyboard shortcuts (i.e.: CTRL-C) while in Hebrew Layout in
> LibreOffice on Ubuntu?
>
> I call it an issue, because I understand it isn't a bug. It has something
> to do with the text entry in Ubuntu, and if I change the text entry mode -
> problem solved!
>
> I really hate having to switch to English every time I need to copy or
> pate text...
>
> I promise I'll write up a Hebrew HOWTO guide for the community, as soon as
> i successfully fix this annoyance.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Amichai Rotman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Sat Dec 12 23:43:23 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 23:43:23 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <CAD_ZK64tJXgwsyh6Kx=5W9-p97=gPEg9qtB_BSe8Lmn6ax3n4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEsznC6RwhiBfOKSpinv=jc_u-dP=UbXnmTfxWU6OD2xOon_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_ZK64tJXgwsyh6Kx=5W9-p97=gPEg9qtB_BSe8Lmn6ax3n4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BPGC8zt90ESpAaXL5Tu7iwhzLVvveeLo6Rk4gJ7oUeB8A@mail.gmail.com>

IIRC You need the DE/toolkit integration installed (ie.
libreoffice-gnome, libreoffice-gtk etc.)

2015-12-12 13:39 GMT+02:00 Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il>:
> Sorry,
>
> Tried your solution:
>
> Check the "Ignore System Language Input" in the Language settings.
>
> No cigar...
>
> I also noticed people report the bug still exists.
>
> I am using Ubuntu 14.04 with Unity DE. I think it is related to the Keyboard
> Input Method System in the Language Settings. It is currently set to 'none'.
> Setting it to 'IBus' didn't change anything. I read somewhere I sould change
> it to 'xkbd' - but i am not sure and I don't  know how to do it...
>
> Amichai.
>
> 2015-12-12 13:04 GMT+02:00 Lior Kaplan <kaplanlior at gmail.com>:
>>
>> LibreOffice used to have a problem with this, but it got fixed a few
>> releases ago: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41169
>>
>> I don't any any issues with LibrePffice 5.0.x on Debian testing (tried
>> CTRL+B, CTRL+C and CTRL+V while in Hebrew layout).
>>
>> Kaplan
>>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Can someone explain to me, once and for all, what's the issue with
>> entering keyboard shortcuts (i.e.: CTRL-C) while in Hebrew Layout in
>> LibreOffice on Ubuntu?
>>
>> I call it an issue, because I understand it isn't a bug. It has something
>> to do with the text entry in Ubuntu, and if I change the text entry mode -
>> problem solved!
>>
>> I really hate having to switch to English every time I need to copy or
>> pate text...
>>
>> I promise I'll write up a Hebrew HOWTO guide for the community, as soon as
>> i successfully fix this annoyance.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Amichai Rotman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>


From pub at goldshmidt.org  Sun Dec 13 15:06:05 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 15:06:05 +0200
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
Message-ID: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org>


Hi,

I am confused and I wonder if some Debian expert can calm me down. I
want to install several different kernel versions on a Debian
server. Off-topic: this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
(they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
natural to me.

However, I cannot find any documentation anywhere on the 'net that tells
me how to get two or more kernel versions on the same Debian machine without
compiling. I just want to install 2 or more linux-image packages and
whatever else needs to be installed - and have them in grub, etc. The
only things I see are "don't install new kernels" and "you can upgrade"
and "download and compile".

# apt-cache search linux-image

shows 3.2.0, 4.2.0, and 2.6. I will be happy with the first two (though
I'd like something in between as well). 

However,

# apt-get install linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64 : Breaks: initramfs-tools (< 0.110~) but
 0.109.1 is to be installed
   Breaks: udev (< 208-8~) but 175-7.2 is to be installed
   E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

does not add to my confidence. I want 2 kernels, 2 initial ramdisks,
etc., on the same machine and in the same grub without investing time to
compile. 

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From wordz2u at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 07:38:18 2015
From: wordz2u at gmail.com (Steve G.)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:38:18 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <CAJAZ2DQvDCq3ONhNiDyyCN_8uYtGbcFMwD6UAxA7jLtRaNL35g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
 <20151208115017.GA18553@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <CAJAZ2DQvDCq3ONhNiDyyCN_8uYtGbcFMwD6UAxA7jLtRaNL35g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJAZ2DRR7rp4pDHboi-z6a_5-Gi6CVuas=Axn2w=RP9FghY1wA@mail.gmail.com>

While we are at it, I am taking a Coursera course (
https://www.coursera.org/learn/raspberry-pi-platform/home/welcome) which
requires me to have the following components:

1 breadboard
*6 wires with female leads, 24 AWG (or 2 servo cables)*
*8 wires which can fit a breadboard (24 AWG)*
3 LEDs
*2 pushbuttons which can be mounted into a breadboard*
3 1 KOhm resistors


I need to get the items that are in bold - can anyone recommend a store in
Tel Aviv where I can find these items? Or a mail-order in Israel where I
can specify the specific items?

Thanks,

Zvi.

PS If these places also had the R-pi compatible camera and GPS, I'd at
least think about it (and if the price is right, buy at least the camera)
for future fun.




On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Steve G. <wordz2u at gmail.com> wrote:

> You can get a kit from Amazon, and they will ship to Israel if you choose
> the right product. The kit includes the hdmi cable, SD, breadboard,
> resistors, diodes, wifi dongle heat sinks and possibly 1-2 more items. Make
> sure the particular vendor ships to Israel - not all do.
>
> You can also buy direct from vendors, adafruit is one, there are links to
> others on the raspi web site.
>
> while you're at it, why not get the compatible camera and gps.
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 11:13:44AM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
>> > My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about
>> the Pi
>> > Zero.
>> >
>> > I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him a
>> Pi
>> > he could use.
>> >
>> > He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
>> >
>> > He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read Hebrew.
>> I
>> > will be mentoring and need English.
>> >
>> > Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
>> >
>> > Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not the
>> > Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub or
>> > cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on.
>> > Basically, a plug and play system?
>>
>> Pi board, case: yeah, get from the store.
>>
>> HDMI Cable, USB Hub: just get from any local shop.
>>
>> SD: Either order, or buy an SD, download an image and dd / cat / cp it
>> to the SD yourself (requires an SD "reader", but it is a raher common
>> equipment).
>>
>> Power supply: A decent one of a mobile phone will likely do, IIRC, and
>> those are likewise common.
>>
>> That said, there may also be other useful hardware addons.
>> For instance, a breadboard, some LEDs, switches and resistors (which,
>> again, you could find in a local electronics shop. Hopefully. I did find
>> one in the not so central place I reside. Well, except the breadboard).
>>
>> --
>> Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
>> http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
>> tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
>> tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>
> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>



-- 
Sincerely,

Steve

http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)

http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
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From wordz2u at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 07:59:06 2015
From: wordz2u at gmail.com (Steve G.)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:59:06 +0200
Subject: Python 'mentoring'
Message-ID: <CAJAZ2DTgPnN8adJQux0_VS+D2cagpTZ7ydbevEo0JJ9UNUaRpA@mail.gmail.com>

I am not a professional programmer, but after taking a couple of Python
online courses, I am trying to put the knowledge to good use. I am working
on a few study-aids for learning English words.

Currently I write the code in gedit or nano/pico, then run the script in a
terminal, using "python scriptname.py". The platform we used in class (
http://www.codeskulptor.org/) is not designed for programming on a PC, I
need some advice on an IDE that allows one to code and run and decode
errors from within the IDE because mine is not the best way to develop
code.

It would also be nice to create a GUI version of my code (currently all
takes place in a terminal), and even possibly move it to the web (i.e. run
the program inside a browser window), if that is doable.

Finally, I would also like to continue using the language and maybe
contribute to community projects that use it (yes, I realize a couple of
courses do not a programmer make).

So I have a number of questions:

1. Is there an Israel/Tel Aviv Python group?

2. Are there any places where someone can help in python projects? I hear
rumors there is something on Google Campus, but I am not sure if it is
python related or if they take newbies.

3. Would someone be willing to 'mentor' me - that is, help me move up the
python food chain, by doing OOP programming, using advanced IDE's tools,
making apps from my code so people can use it on a cell phone or tablet, or
as part of Facebook, disseminate the code through git or similar versioning
tools, etc.?

Thanks for your time,

Zvi
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From dimidd at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 08:22:20 2015
From: dimidd at gmail.com (Dimid Duchovny)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 08:22:20 +0200
Subject: Python 'mentoring'
In-Reply-To: <CAJAZ2DTgPnN8adJQux0_VS+D2cagpTZ7ydbevEo0JJ9UNUaRpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJAZ2DTgPnN8adJQux0_VS+D2cagpTZ7ydbevEo0JJ9UNUaRpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKvuDfcgEbv33ET1S+=mnz0nsCPR_m=v+k+YFOv9Wfy-RO=oA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Zvi,

Regarding IDE, I personally use vim with a plugin called python-mode, but
if you want a full-fledged IDE, you have pycharm or pydev (can be used as
an Eclipse plugin). You're welcome to join us in the public knowledge
workshop, we use python for most of the projects and have meetings in
Jerusalem (Wed), and Tel Aviv (Mon).
http://www.hasadna.org.il/en/

2015-12-15 7:59 GMT+02:00 Steve G. <wordz2u at gmail.com>:

> I am not a professional programmer, but after taking a couple of Python
> online courses, I am trying to put the knowledge to good use. I am working
> on a few study-aids for learning English words.
>
> Currently I write the code in gedit or nano/pico, then run the script in a
> terminal, using "python scriptname.py". The platform we used in class (
> http://www.codeskulptor.org/) is not designed for programming on a PC, I
> need some advice on an IDE that allows one to code and run and decode
> errors from within the IDE because mine is not the best way to develop
> code.
>
> It would also be nice to create a GUI version of my code (currently all
> takes place in a terminal), and even possibly move it to the web (i.e. run
> the program inside a browser window), if that is doable.
>
> Finally, I would also like to continue using the language and maybe
> contribute to community projects that use it (yes, I realize a couple of
> courses do not a programmer make).
>
> So I have a number of questions:
>
> 1. Is there an Israel/Tel Aviv Python group?
>
> 2. Are there any places where someone can help in python projects? I hear
> rumors there is something on Google Campus, but I am not sure if it is
> python related or if they take newbies.
>
> 3. Would someone be willing to 'mentor' me - that is, help me move up the
> python food chain, by doing OOP programming, using advanced IDE's tools,
> making apps from my code so people can use it on a cell phone or tablet, or
> as part of Facebook, disseminate the code through git or similar versioning
> tools, etc.?
>
> Thanks for your time,
>
> Zvi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From david at davidsconsultants.com  Tue Dec 15 08:24:00 2015
From: david at davidsconsultants.com (David Suna)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 08:24:00 +0200
Subject: Python 'mentoring'
In-Reply-To: <CAJAZ2DTgPnN8adJQux0_VS+D2cagpTZ7ydbevEo0JJ9UNUaRpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJAZ2DTgPnN8adJQux0_VS+D2cagpTZ7ydbevEo0JJ9UNUaRpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <566FB200.4050105@davidsconsultants.com>

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From shlomif at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 10:23:41 2015
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:23:41 +0200
Subject: Python 'mentoring'
In-Reply-To: <CAJAZ2DTgPnN8adJQux0_VS+D2cagpTZ7ydbevEo0JJ9UNUaRpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJAZ2DTgPnN8adJQux0_VS+D2cagpTZ7ydbevEo0JJ9UNUaRpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy4znWJshQHH3jhkR3zK=JuqxJrPHqDK6S+qC2grY2keYiOFA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Zvi,

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Steve G. <wordz2u at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am not a professional programmer, but after taking a couple of Python
> online courses, I am trying to put the knowledge to good use. I am working
> on a few study-aids for learning English words.
>
> Currently I write the code in gedit or nano/pico, then run the script in a
> terminal, using "python scriptname.py". The platform we used in class (
> http://www.codeskulptor.org/) is not designed for programming on a PC, I
> need some advice on an IDE that allows one to code and run and decode
> errors from within the IDE because mine is not the best way to develop
> code.
>
> It would also be nice to create a GUI version of my code (currently all
> takes place in a terminal), and even possibly move it to the web (i.e. run
> the program inside a browser window), if that is doable.
>
> Finally, I would also like to continue using the language and maybe
> contribute to community projects that use it (yes, I realize a couple of
> courses do not a programmer make).
>
> So I have a number of questions:
>
> 1. Is there an Israel/Tel Aviv Python group?
>
>
See:

* http://www.meetup.com/PyWeb-IL

* http://www.iglu.org.il/mailing-lists/python-il.html

* https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/pyweb-il

It seems that lately the PyWeb-IL Google Group (a mailing list, web forum,
etc.) has become more active than Python-IL and the discussions there are
not restricted to Python-on-the-web exclusively.


> 2. Are there any places where someone can help in python projects? I hear
> rumors there is something on Google Campus, but I am not sure if it is
> python related or if they take newbies.
>

Do you mean physical places or Internet resources? For Internet resources,
I can recommend various chat venues such as Freenode IRC (
http://freenode.net/ ). On Freenode, there's a very active #python channel
(which I don't have on autojoin) and I also like ##programming which tries
to help people with programming questions on all programming languages and
APIs.


>
> 3. Would someone be willing to 'mentor' me - that is, help me move up the
> python food chain, by doing OOP programming, using advanced IDE's tools,
> making apps from my code so people can use it on a cell phone or tablet, or
> as part of Facebook, disseminate the code through git or similar versioning
> tools, etc.?
>
>
Since I'm not a big Python expert, I'd rather not volunteer to do that.
I've collected some resources for that here though:

*
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/How_to_start_contributing_to_or_using_Open_Source_Software

* http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/how-to-get-help-online/

*
http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/open-source/how-to-start-contributing/

Regarding "making apps from my code" - a web application, with some effort,
would be accessible from mobile phones, tablets, as well as other browsers
on desktop machines or laptops or whatever. Furthermore, applications are
not restricted to mobile phones/etc. as
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_software is any computer program.
I believe this terminology is derived from the act of applying a
Turing-complete machine to handle a different "language" (= perform a
different task).

Regarding IDEs - I have a partial list of them here -
http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/resources/editors-and-IDEs/ - and
there are links to more lists for those on that page. I currently am still
happy using vim/gvim for most of my coding, and disliked most IDEs I tried
for Linux.

Regards,

    ? Shlomi Fish

-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From linux-il at didi.bardavid.org  Tue Dec 15 12:58:23 2015
From: linux-il at didi.bardavid.org (Yedidyah Bar David)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:58:23 +0200
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
In-Reply-To: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <CAGtcZ6vLgku4WGwEL6FU5_jrpq+V-jCLu_MA3t-_r+Q8XM1PgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am confused and I wonder if some Debian expert can calm me down. I
> want to install several different kernel versions on a Debian
> server. Off-topic: this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
> natural to me.

Generally, should work similarly in Debian.

>
> However, I cannot find any documentation anywhere on the 'net that tells
> me how to get two or more kernel versions on the same Debian machine without
> compiling. I just want to install 2 or more linux-image packages and
> whatever else needs to be installed - and have them in grub, etc. The
> only things I see are "don't install new kernels" and "you can upgrade"
> and "download and compile".
>
> # apt-cache search linux-image
>
> shows 3.2.0, 4.2.0, and 2.6. I will be happy with the first two (though
> I'd like something in between as well).
>
> However,
>
> # apt-get install linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
> or been moved out of Incoming.
> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
>
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>  linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64 : Breaks: initramfs-tools (< 0.110~) but
>  0.109.1 is to be installed
>    Breaks: udev (< 208-8~) but 175-7.2 is to be installed
>    E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
>
> does not add to my confidence. I want 2 kernels, 2 initial ramdisks,
> etc., on the same machine and in the same grub without investing time to
> compile.

This break due a specific different issue, not because Debian does not
support this in general.

No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
initramfs-tools?
-- 
Didi


From rabin at rabin.io  Tue Dec 15 13:14:59 2015
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:14:59 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <CAJAZ2DRR7rp4pDHboi-z6a_5-Gi6CVuas=Axn2w=RP9FghY1wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
 <20151208115017.GA18553@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <CAJAZ2DQvDCq3ONhNiDyyCN_8uYtGbcFMwD6UAxA7jLtRaNL35g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJAZ2DRR7rp4pDHboi-z6a_5-Gi6CVuas=Axn2w=RP9FghY1wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEDY2p-t4LU4CKpNx3_P78k10o7eXzzNeu1=cQjZ-3VFnw@mail.gmail.com>

You can order Online from - http://www.arihav.com
and IIRC you have several stores on "???? ????" next to the New CBS in TLV.

--
Rabin

On 15 December 2015 at 07:38, Steve G. <wordz2u at gmail.com> wrote:

> While we are at it, I am taking a Coursera course (
> https://www.coursera.org/learn/raspberry-pi-platform/home/welcome) which
> requires me to have the following components:
>
> 1 breadboard
> *6 wires with female leads, 24 AWG (or 2 servo cables)*
> *8 wires which can fit a breadboard (24 AWG)*
> 3 LEDs
> *2 pushbuttons which can be mounted into a breadboard*
> 3 1 KOhm resistors
>
>
> I need to get the items that are in bold - can anyone recommend a store in
> Tel Aviv where I can find these items? Or a mail-order in Israel where I
> can specify the specific items?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zvi.
>
> PS If these places also had the R-pi compatible camera and GPS, I'd at
> least think about it (and if the price is right, buy at least the camera)
> for future fun.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Steve G. <wordz2u at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You can get a kit from Amazon, and they will ship to Israel if you choose
>> the right product. The kit includes the hdmi cable, SD, breadboard,
>> resistors, diodes, wifi dongle heat sinks and possibly 1-2 more items. Make
>> sure the particular vendor ships to Israel - not all do.
>>
>> You can also buy direct from vendors, adafruit is one, there are links to
>> others on the raspi web site.
>>
>> while you're at it, why not get the compatible camera and gps.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 11:13:44AM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
>>> > My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about
>>> the Pi
>>> > Zero.
>>> >
>>> > I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him
>>> a Pi
>>> > he could use.
>>> >
>>> > He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
>>> >
>>> > He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read
>>> Hebrew.  I
>>> > will be mentoring and need English.
>>> >
>>> > Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
>>> >
>>> > Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not the
>>> > Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub or
>>> > cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on.
>>> > Basically, a plug and play system?
>>>
>>> Pi board, case: yeah, get from the store.
>>>
>>> HDMI Cable, USB Hub: just get from any local shop.
>>>
>>> SD: Either order, or buy an SD, download an image and dd / cat / cp it
>>> to the SD yourself (requires an SD "reader", but it is a raher common
>>> equipment).
>>>
>>> Power supply: A decent one of a mobile phone will likely do, IIRC, and
>>> those are likewise common.
>>>
>>> That said, there may also be other useful hardware addons.
>>> For instance, a breadboard, some LEDs, switches and resistors (which,
>>> again, you could find in a local electronics shop. Hopefully. I did find
>>> one in the not so central place I reside. Well, except the breadboard).
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
>>> http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
>>> tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
>>> tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>
> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Tue Dec 15 14:03:34 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 14:03:34 +0200
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
In-Reply-To: <CAGtcZ6vLgku4WGwEL6FU5_jrpq+V-jCLu_MA3t-_r+Q8XM1PgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAGtcZ6vLgku4WGwEL6FU5_jrpq+V-jCLu_MA3t-_r+Q8XM1PgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87vb7zvrzd.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Yedidyah Bar David <linux-il at didi.bardavid.org> writes:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:
>>
>> this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
>> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
>> natural to me.
>
> Generally, should work similarly in Debian.

So what's the apt-get equivalent of yum install (as apt-get install is
similar to yum update)?

> This break due a specific different issue, not because Debian does not
> support this in general.

I think that the root cause is that "apt-get install" updates rather
than installing together.

> No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
> initramfs-tools?

Will my 3.2 keep working? I have no confidence in that. Again, I do not
want to "upgrade" anything - I want to switch between several kernels at
will. I also do not want to compile - I want stock Debian kernels.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From borissh1983 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 15:12:55 2015
From: borissh1983 at gmail.com (Boris Shtrasman)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:12:55 +0200
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
In-Reply-To: <874mfkvsd4.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org> <4106701.DcQVA3Rp5q@midgard>
 <874mfkvsd4.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <2169673.XgmebSMrJv@midgard>

Good day , 

On Tuesday 15 December 2015 13:55:19 Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> Boris Shtrasman  writes:
> 
> > Let me explain , the 3.2 version and 4.2 are sitting in different
> > branches
> 
> Both are available from wheezy (with apt-get install -t wheezy to be sure)

I  did a minor test on a amd64 arch again , setting up only wheezy and stable/updates

apt-get update 

Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates InRelease                                              
Ign http://http.debian.net wheezy InRelease                                  
Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main amd64 Packages 
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy Release.gpg                  
Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main i386 Packages 
Hit http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main Translation-en    
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy Release          
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy/main i386 Packages 
Hit http://http.debian.net wheezy/main Translation-en 
Reading package lists... Done                     

checking about 4.2: 

apt-cache policy linux-image-4.2 
linux-image-4.2.0-1-amd64: 
 Installed: 4.2.6-3 
 Candidate: 4.2.6-3 
 Version table: 
*** 4.2.6-3 0 
       100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

compare the result to 3.2 :

apt-cache policy linux-image-3.2 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
    3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
       500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-amd64-dbg: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
    3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
       500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-amd64: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
    3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
       500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64-dbg: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 
 Version table: 
    3.2.68-1+deb7u3 0 
       500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages 
linux-image-3.2.0-2-amd64: 
 Installed: (none) 
 Candidate: (none) 
 Version table: 
    3.2.20-1 0 
       100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

As I mentioned before please share your sources.list , or the output of apt-get update. 
If you can add the results for apt-cache policy linux-image-4.2 that might clear my confusion 

I think it might benefit you to use a local server (example mirror.isoc.org.il ) which would be close to your setup and not the redirector because when I tried to use it with a vpn in Israel (with an Israeli vpn) I was allegedly sent to http://mirror.datacenter.by/debian/
(according to http://http.debian.net/demo.html) 


Requesting a package from a distribution  without setting preferences or exact version has a good chance that the dependencies will be taken from packages with the highest priority available (most recent version).
you could use the preferences file I sent you as a good start, alternatively you can work with pinning version; but in any case sharing your sources along with providing the output for apt-cache policy linux-image-4.2 would clear some of the question I raised. 

> but 4.2 does not install as described. Answering your other
> questions, it is not a weird or intriguing setup. It is an official
> mirror.
 
I'm sorry but having 4.2 in wheezy *without* backports or some manual setting is intriguing results for me. 

> They also cheerfully sit together in
> http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/linux.
> 

That is not how mirrors work , when several brands/dists reside on the same server they will have files by section (in this case main) but packages will point to the correct location.
what you need to look into the release and Packages files (to see what is included and how it works) 

For wheezy / master : 

$wget http://ftp.cz.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2
$bunzip2 Packages.bz2
$grep Package Packages | grep linux-image 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-486 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae-dbg 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae-dbg 
Package: linux-image-2.6-486 
Package: linux-image-2.6-686 
Package: linux-image-2.6-686-bigmem 
Package: linux-image-2.6-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-2.6-amd64 
Package: linux-image-486 
Package: linux-image-686 
Package: linux-image-686-bigmem 
Package: linux-image-686-pae 
Package: linux-image-amd64 
Package: linux-image-rt-686-pae

> > In most cases it is no hussle as long as you relaying on
> > stable/testing unstable and having an updated system , for example you
> > have stable + stable/updates
> 
> That's what it is (no testing though). But it does not work. :-(
> 

wheezy is old-stable not stable. 



From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Tue Dec 15 16:04:04 2015
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:04:04 +0100
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
In-Reply-To: <87vb7zvrzd.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAGtcZ6vLgku4WGwEL6FU5_jrpq+V-jCLu_MA3t-_r+Q8XM1PgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87vb7zvrzd.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <20151215140404.GB14538@lemon.cohens.org.il>

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 02:03:34PM +0200, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> Yedidyah Bar David <linux-il at didi.bardavid.org> writes:
> 
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
> >> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
> >> natural to me.
> >
> > Generally, should work similarly in Debian.
> 
> So what's the apt-get equivalent of yum install (as apt-get install is
> similar to yum update)?

You can't have multiple versions of the same package installed. Note
that a kernel package with a different release (uname -r) has a
different name, and is thus a different package - they don't conflict.

> > No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
> > initramfs-tools?
> 
> Will my 3.2 keep working? I have no confidence in that. Again, I do not
> want to "upgrade" anything - I want to switch between several kernels at
> will. I also do not want to compile - I want stock Debian kernels.

Thus you can keep your 3.2 kernel. It's a different package.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From linux-il at didi.bardavid.org  Tue Dec 15 16:17:11 2015
From: linux-il at didi.bardavid.org (Yedidyah Bar David)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:17:11 +0200
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
In-Reply-To: <87vb7zvrzd.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CAGtcZ6vLgku4WGwEL6FU5_jrpq+V-jCLu_MA3t-_r+Q8XM1PgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87vb7zvrzd.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <CAGtcZ6vgHGU4iUpTCHmgBnPRBOngy54TZC0uSt2QZ-qYukF4Ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:
> Yedidyah Bar David <linux-il at didi.bardavid.org> writes:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> this is something that Red Hat do without being asked
>>> (they keep several versions, usually 3), so it is something that seems
>>> natural to me.
>>
>> Generally, should work similarly in Debian.
>
> So what's the apt-get equivalent of yum install (as apt-get install is
> similar to yum update)?

In a sense, you are right, but not in the way you intended: yum
install will also
update an installed package if an update is available.

>
>> This break due a specific different issue, not because Debian does not
>> support this in general.
>
> I think that the root cause is that "apt-get install" updates rather
> than installing together.
>
>> No idea about your specific issue. Did you try to also upgrade udev and
>> initramfs-tools?
>
> Will my 3.2 keep working? I have no confidence in that. Again, I do not
> want to "upgrade" anything - I want to switch between several kernels at
> will. I also do not want to compile - I want stock Debian kernels.

AFAICS wheezy had 3.2, jessie has 3.16.

My laptop was upgraded from wheezy to jessie and has both kernels installed.
IIRC I successfully booted the 3.2 one after the upgrade, didn't try
that recently,
as I have no need for that.

Didn't check about udev and initramfs-tools.

The kernel packages normally arrive with a kernel image, plus many modules.
initramfs-tools is used to build an initrd image, which mainly includes the
relevant modules.

In principle, building such an initrd of the 3.2 kernel with
jessie-updated tools
is indeed risky.

I am pretty certain that the above is almost identical in rhel/centos/fedora,
except that upgrading there between releases is significantly different.
-- 
Didi


From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 16:20:42 2015
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:20:42 +0200
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
In-Reply-To: <2169673.XgmebSMrJv@midgard>
References: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org> <4106701.DcQVA3Rp5q@midgard>
 <874mfkvsd4.fsf@goldshmidt.org> <2169673.XgmebSMrJv@midgard>
Message-ID: <567021BA.4040306@gmail.com>

On 12/15/2015 3:12 PM, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
>
> I  did a minor test on a amd64 arch again , setting up only wheezy and stable/updates
>
>
I recently install Ubuntu 15.10 on a system amd64 arch,  and it 
installed vmlinuz-4.2.0-16-generic as the kernel. I later ran software 
update and it installed vmlinuz-4.2.0-19-generic, but kept the older 
kernel.


I will admit Ubuntu is not debian, but the package tools provided by 
debian are used by it.


Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Tue Dec 15 16:28:44 2015
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:28:44 +0100
Subject: How to install several kernels on Debian
In-Reply-To: <567021BA.4040306@gmail.com>
References: <87twnmebwi.fsf@goldshmidt.org> <4106701.DcQVA3Rp5q@midgard>
 <874mfkvsd4.fsf@goldshmidt.org> <2169673.XgmebSMrJv@midgard>
 <567021BA.4040306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20151215142844.GC14538@lemon.cohens.org.il>

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 04:20:42PM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
> On 12/15/2015 3:12 PM, Boris Shtrasman wrote:
> >
> >I  did a minor test on a amd64 arch again , setting up only wheezy and stable/updates
> >
> >
> I recently install Ubuntu 15.10 on a system amd64 arch,  and it installed
> vmlinuz-4.2.0-16-generic as the kernel. I later ran software update and it
> installed vmlinuz-4.2.0-19-generic, but kept the older kernel.
> 
> 
> I will admit Ubuntu is not debian, but the package tools provided by debian
> are used by it.

Ubuntu bumps the kernel revision (and hence change the name of the
kernel packagee) on practically every kernel upgrade. Debian does its
best to maintain the same kernel revision (and try to guarantee a stable
ABI to kernel modules).

Thus same tools but different policy.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From w1 at zak.co.il  Mon Dec 21 12:53:19 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 12:53:19 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
Message-ID: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>

During the last several months, I was having a problem of USB mouse
disconnecting and reconnecting very often in my Linux system (Debian
Wheezy, kernels 3.16.0-4-amd64 and 4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64). Recently a
similar problem started to affect also my printer.

Hardware problems were ruled out yesterday in the computer repair lab.

I found some information which suggested that it has to do with USB
power control, and that there are several problems with USB handling in
general.

I also saw that other people complain about similar problems, often
without a solution to their problems.

So I wanted to search the Linux Kernel changelogs for any recent changes
in the USB subsystem.

Unfortunately I found no such search function.
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/ has all changelogs in its
subdirectories but no search function.
The search function in http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges is broken -
I get Web searches even when I choose "This site".

What do you do when you need to search Linux kernel changesets for
relevant changes?

--- Omer


-- 
As long as there are families which throw their teenager sons and
daughters out of home if they turn out to be gays or lesbians, Gay Pride
Parade events are needed.
As long as the most common cause of suicide by teenagers is their
finding out that they are gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are needed.
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From linux-il at didi.bardavid.org  Mon Dec 21 13:12:01 2015
From: linux-il at didi.bardavid.org (Yedidyah Bar David)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:12:01 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAGtcZ6vQXkL7S0XtuA_gwk4cLqTVyTTCaRUNdtLBT=nhT__mjg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:
> During the last several months, I was having a problem of USB mouse
> disconnecting and reconnecting very often in my Linux system (Debian
> Wheezy, kernels 3.16.0-4-amd64 and 4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64). Recently a
> similar problem started to affect also my printer.
>
> Hardware problems were ruled out yesterday in the computer repair lab.
>
> I found some information which suggested that it has to do with USB
> power control, and that there are several problems with USB handling in
> general.
>
> I also saw that other people complain about similar problems, often
> without a solution to their problems.
>
> So I wanted to search the Linux Kernel changelogs for any recent changes
> in the USB subsystem.
>
> Unfortunately I found no such search function.
> https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/ has all changelogs in its
> subdirectories but no search function.
> The search function in http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges is broken -
> I get Web searches even when I choose "This site".
>
> What do you do when you need to search Linux kernel changesets for
> relevant changes?

If no better solution, you can clone the kernel git repo and use git to
search there.
-- 
Didi


From rabin at rabin.io  Mon Dec 21 13:35:05 2015
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:35:05 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>

do you install/use powertop or tlp ?

--
Rabin

On 21 December 2015 at 12:53, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:

> During the last several months, I was having a problem of USB mouse
> disconnecting and reconnecting very often in my Linux system (Debian
> Wheezy, kernels 3.16.0-4-amd64 and 4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64). Recently a
> similar problem started to affect also my printer.
>
> Hardware problems were ruled out yesterday in the computer repair lab.
>
> I found some information which suggested that it has to do with USB
> power control, and that there are several problems with USB handling in
> general.
>
> I also saw that other people complain about similar problems, often
> without a solution to their problems.
>
> So I wanted to search the Linux Kernel changelogs for any recent changes
> in the USB subsystem.
>
> Unfortunately I found no such search function.
> https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/ has all changelogs in its
> subdirectories but no search function.
> The search function in http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges is broken -
> I get Web searches even when I choose "This site".
>
> What do you do when you need to search Linux kernel changesets for
> relevant changes?
>
> --- Omer
>
>
> --
> As long as there are families which throw their teenager sons and
> daughters out of home if they turn out to be gays or lesbians, Gay Pride
> Parade events are needed.
> As long as the most common cause of suicide by teenagers is their
> finding out that they are gays or lesbians, Gay Pride Parade events are
> needed.
> My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
>
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
> I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Mon Dec 21 13:54:50 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:54:50 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il>

At your hint, I have installed powertop.
I did not find a tip in Debian, but there is a tiptop command in my
system.
How can they help me diagnose USB problems?


On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 13:35 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> do you install/use powertop or tlp ?
> 

> On 21 December 2015 at 12:53, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:
>         During the last several months, I was having a problem of USB
>         mouse
>         disconnecting and reconnecting very often in my Linux system
>         (Debian
>         Wheezy, kernels 3.16.0-4-amd64 and 4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64).
>         Recently a
>         similar problem started to affect also my printer.
>         
>         Hardware problems were ruled out yesterday in the computer
>         repair lab.
>         
>         I found some information which suggested that it has to do
>         with USB
>         power control, and that there are several problems with USB
>         handling in
>         general.
>         
>         I also saw that other people complain about similar problems,
>         often
>         without a solution to their problems.
>         
>         So I wanted to search the Linux Kernel changelogs for any
>         recent changes
>         in the USB subsystem.
>         
>         Unfortunately I found no such search function.
>         https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/ has all changelogs in
>         its
>         subdirectories but no search function.
>         The search function in http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
>         is broken -
>         I get Web searches even when I choose "This site".
>         
>         What do you do when you need to search Linux kernel changesets
>         for
>         relevant changes?


-- 
The key to making programs fast is to make them do practically nothing.
Mike Haertel (original author of GNU grep)
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From rabin at rabin.io  Mon Dec 21 14:08:18 2015
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 14:08:18 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CABKuJECW9kjPmhjY-66SU=zRm0cvzMcHyhL+QPHzmErwpobyeg@mail.gmail.com>

I had a "problem" with tlp & powertop when i tried to used this tools to
configure my system (laptop) to conserve energy,
I enabled all tunable options, and I started to experience smiler symptom
as you describe above,
where my mouse will suddenly stop working, and my disk was contently
sniping down and that created lags when I was switching tabs in the browser.




--
Rabin

On 21 December 2015 at 13:54, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:

> At your hint, I have installed powertop.
> I did not find a tip in Debian, but there is a tiptop command in my
> system.
> How can they help me diagnose USB problems?
>
>
> On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 13:35 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> > do you install/use powertop or tlp ?
> >
>
> > On 21 December 2015 at 12:53, Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> wrote:
> >         During the last several months, I was having a problem of USB
> >         mouse
> >         disconnecting and reconnecting very often in my Linux system
> >         (Debian
> >         Wheezy, kernels 3.16.0-4-amd64 and 4.2.0-0.bpo.1-amd64).
> >         Recently a
> >         similar problem started to affect also my printer.
> >
> >         Hardware problems were ruled out yesterday in the computer
> >         repair lab.
> >
> >         I found some information which suggested that it has to do
> >         with USB
> >         power control, and that there are several problems with USB
> >         handling in
> >         general.
> >
> >         I also saw that other people complain about similar problems,
> >         often
> >         without a solution to their problems.
> >
> >         So I wanted to search the Linux Kernel changelogs for any
> >         recent changes
> >         in the USB subsystem.
> >
> >         Unfortunately I found no such search function.
> >         https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/ has all changelogs in
> >         its
> >         subdirectories but no search function.
> >         The search function in http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
> >         is broken -
> >         I get Web searches even when I choose "This site".
> >
> >         What do you do when you need to search Linux kernel changesets
> >         for
> >         relevant changes?
>
>
> --
> The key to making programs fast is to make them do practically nothing.
> Mike Haertel (original author of GNU grep)
> My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
>
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
> I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Tue Dec 22 21:48:16 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 21:48:16 +0200
Subject: The Dell Precision M3800 Laptop
Message-ID: <1450813696.12659.106.camel@zak.co.il>

As I said few weeks ago, I am considering the purchase of a new laptop
to replace my current desktop PC and also serve me on the road.

It was suggested to me to consider purchasing the Dell Precision M3800
laptop.

Before ordering it, I'd like to know if anyone else bought it and if
yes, what is his/her experience. Specific questions appear below.

>From the reviews that I read, the laptop suffers from a battery life
deficiency (which does not bother me). Also, the 4K display option
causes a lot of software to display too small graphical elements.
(see, for example:
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2897199/opensource-subnet/review-dells-ubuntu-powered-m3800-mobile-workstation-is-a-desktop-destroyer.html).

The above review also claims that the laptop works with all Linux
distributions the author tried.

The laptop has the Nvidia? Quadro? K1100M, w/ 2GB GDDR5 display card.
According to
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/69378/en-us, it works
well with the NViDia proprietary driver.  Should I be on the lookout for
any problems with it?
Is the card strong enough to drive three displays simultaneously?

And finally, when I install Linux on the laptop, should I be careful
when dealing with UEFI?

--- Omer


-- 
My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory;
and its display device is grievously short of pixels.  Can anyone help?
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From wordz2u at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 09:23:09 2015
From: wordz2u at gmail.com (Steve G.)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 09:23:09 +0200
Subject: where to buy a raspberry Pi?
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEDY2p-t4LU4CKpNx3_P78k10o7eXzzNeu1=cQjZ-3VFnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56669F48.2090501@gmail.com>
 <20151208115017.GA18553@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <CAJAZ2DQvDCq3ONhNiDyyCN_8uYtGbcFMwD6UAxA7jLtRaNL35g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJAZ2DRR7rp4pDHboi-z6a_5-Gi6CVuas=Axn2w=RP9FghY1wA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABKuJEDY2p-t4LU4CKpNx3_P78k10o7eXzzNeu1=cQjZ-3VFnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJAZ2DSHZp7h2=NOurHXNrpEEiPUPm_33GnDwnfo7rgE7Me-BA@mail.gmail.com>

I sent a message to sales at Arihav.com, and am still waiting for an
answer... In the meantime, I stopped at A. Even electronics, Levinsky
(actually Matalon) corner of Har Zion Blvd, 100 m east of the new bus
station, and bought all the parts.

I am told Even is the best store for electronic components in Israel. There
are several other stores in the same block, but none had these parts, and
they all referred me to Even.

Z.

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Rabin Yasharzadehe <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:

> You can order Online from - http://www.arihav.com
> and IIRC you have several stores on "???? ????" next to the New CBS in TLV.
>
> --
> Rabin
>
> On 15 December 2015 at 07:38, Steve G. <wordz2u at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> While we are at it, I am taking a Coursera course (
>> https://www.coursera.org/learn/raspberry-pi-platform/home/welcome) which
>> requires me to have the following components:
>>
>> 1 breadboard
>> *6 wires with female leads, 24 AWG (or 2 servo cables)*
>> *8 wires which can fit a breadboard (24 AWG)*
>> 3 LEDs
>> *2 pushbuttons which can be mounted into a breadboard*
>> 3 1 KOhm resistors
>>
>>
>> I need to get the items that are in bold - can anyone recommend a store
>> in Tel Aviv where I can find these items? Or a mail-order in Israel where I
>> can specify the specific items?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Zvi.
>>
>> PS If these places also had the R-pi compatible camera and GPS, I'd at
>> least think about it (and if the price is right, buy at least the camera)
>> for future fun.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Steve G. <wordz2u at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You can get a kit from Amazon, and they will ship to Israel if you
>>> choose the right product. The kit includes the hdmi cable, SD, breadboard,
>>> resistors, diodes, wifi dongle heat sinks and possibly 1-2 more items. Make
>>> sure the particular vendor ships to Israel - not all do.
>>>
>>> You can also buy direct from vendors, adafruit is one, there are links
>>> to others on the raspi web site.
>>>
>>> while you're at it, why not get the compatible camera and gps.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 08, 2015 at 11:13:44AM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
>>>> > My son has become interested in  the Raspberry Pi after hearing about
>>>> the Pi
>>>> > Zero.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would like to strike while the iron is hot, as it were, and get him
>>>> a Pi
>>>> > he could use.
>>>> >
>>>> > He currently is a Windows users and has no programming experience.
>>>> >
>>>> > He is a native Hebrew and English speaker, but prefers to read
>>>> Hebrew.  I
>>>> > will be mentoring and need English.
>>>> >
>>>> > Is there a Pi user's group or website, etc, in Hebrew?
>>>> >
>>>> > Where can I get him a Pi (the latest version of the regular Pi, not
>>>> the
>>>> > Zero), with everything, .e.g case, power supply, HDMI cable, USB hub
>>>> or
>>>> > cable to provide my own, memory card with operating system, and so on.
>>>> > Basically, a plug and play system?
>>>>
>>>> Pi board, case: yeah, get from the store.
>>>>
>>>> HDMI Cable, USB Hub: just get from any local shop.
>>>>
>>>> SD: Either order, or buy an SD, download an image and dd / cat / cp it
>>>> to the SD yourself (requires an SD "reader", but it is a raher common
>>>> equipment).
>>>>
>>>> Power supply: A decent one of a mobile phone will likely do, IIRC, and
>>>> those are likewise common.
>>>>
>>>> That said, there may also be other useful hardware addons.
>>>> For instance, a breadboard, some LEDs, switches and resistors (which,
>>>> again, you could find in a local electronics shop. Hopefully. I did find
>>>> one in the not so central place I reside. Well, except the breadboard).
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
>>>> http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
>>>> tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
>>>> tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>>
>>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)
>>
>> http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>


-- 
Sincerely,

Steve

http://www.words2u.net - GPS points and tracks (mainly in Costa Rica)

http://www.words2u.net/recipes - Recipe collection
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Wed Dec 23 10:54:28 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 10:54:28 +0200
Subject: The Dell Precision M3800 Laptop
In-Reply-To: <1450813696.12659.106.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1450813696.12659.106.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BNbQi=TzwbcwCt+kf0npkVthvur_Qd=7o0kq7UPCJUXug@mail.gmail.com>

2015-12-22 21:48 GMT+02:00 Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>:
> As I said few weeks ago, I am considering the purchase of a new laptop
> to replace my current desktop PC and also serve me on the road.
>
> It was suggested to me to consider purchasing the Dell Precision M3800
> laptop.
>
> Before ordering it, I'd like to know if anyone else bought it and if
> yes, what is his/her experience. Specific questions appear below.
>
> From the reviews that I read, the laptop suffers from a battery life
> deficiency (which does not bother me). Also, the 4K display option
> causes a lot of software to display too small graphical elements.
> (see, for example:
> http://www.networkworld.com/article/2897199/opensource-subnet/review-dells-ubuntu-powered-m3800-mobile-workstation-is-a-desktop-destroyer.html).
Usually the DE has somewhere where you can tell it how high the DPI is
for your screen and it will scale elements accordingly, however this
usually won't work across the board.
DTRs aren't expected to have good battery life, they'd need to double
their weight to accomplish that.
>
> The above review also claims that the laptop works with all Linux
> distributions the author tried.
>
> The laptop has the Nvidia? Quadro? K1100M, w/ 2GB GDDR5 display card.
> According to
> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/69378/en-us, it works
> well with the NViDia proprietary driver.  Should I be on the lookout for
> any problems with it?
Once they support it the nVidia propriatary drivers are generally very solid.
> Is the card strong enough to drive three displays simultaneously?
The card in the CPU is strong enough to handle 3 screens, the discrete
card is a lot stronger the question is does Linux support the docking
station that you'll need to be able to accomplish a triple screen
setup.
>
> And finally, when I install Linux on the laptop, should I be careful
> when dealing with UEFI?
UEFI tends to be a pain in the *ss because it tries to 'help' you, my
most recent 'adventure' saw it emulating BIOS when booting from the
usb-disk install media which of course triggered a bios compatible
install of Linux, however it refused to boot from the harddisk in
'legacy' mode.
It took a while before I figured that out and redid the install while
booting from the usb-disk in UEFI mode...
HTH,
Eliyahu - ?????
>
> --- Omer
>
>
> --
> My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory;
> and its display device is grievously short of pixels.  Can anyone help?
> My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
>
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
> I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il


From d.s at daniel.shahaf.name  Wed Dec 23 11:32:37 2015
From: d.s at daniel.shahaf.name (Daniel Shahaf)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 09:32:37 +0000
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <20151223093237.GK2167@tarsus.local2>

Omer Zak wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 13:54:50 +0200:
> At your hint, I have installed powertop.
> I did not find a tip in Debian, but there is a tiptop command in my
> system.

Rabin wrote "tlp" with an 'L', not "tip" with an 'I'.

Daniel

> How can they help me diagnose USB problems?
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 13:35 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> > do you install/use powertop or tlp ?


From meirm at riunx.com  Wed Dec 23 14:40:37 2015
From: meirm at riunx.com (Meir Michanie)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 12:40:37 +0000
Subject: Job offer
Message-ID: <CAG4bpDLw862Pyki6_2+6v6Atvn=wcx36Lo1VA=SD=LeiHx2kFA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi list,
I am looking for a candidate to present to my employer for a Junior Linux
power user interested in finance to work at banks in Israel and abroad.
There is a lot of learning involved in Linux and finance.

The job requires writing scripts in Bash, Perl, Python and more. Learning
to integrate complex banking software and learn financial concepts.

Please email me your CV if you are interested.


Thanks,

Meir
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From shachar at shemesh.biz  Wed Dec 23 19:54:22 2015
From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 19:54:22 +0200
Subject: The Dell Precision M3800 Laptop
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BNbQi=TzwbcwCt+kf0npkVthvur_Qd=7o0kq7UPCJUXug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1450813696.12659.106.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CAHTx_BNbQi=TzwbcwCt+kf0npkVthvur_Qd=7o0kq7UPCJUXug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567ADFCE.9050106@shemesh.biz>

On 23/12/15 10:54, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:
> 2015-12-22 21:48 GMT+02:00 Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>:
>> As I said few weeks ago, I am considering the purchase of a new laptop
>> to replace my current desktop PC and also serve me on the road.
>>
>> It was suggested to me to consider purchasing the Dell Precision M3800
>> laptop.
>>
>> Before ordering it, I'd like to know if anyone else bought it and if
>> yes, what is his/her experience. Specific questions appear below.
>>
>> From the reviews that I read, the laptop suffers from a battery life
>> deficiency (which does not bother me). Also, the 4K display option
>> causes a lot of software to display too small graphical elements.
>> (see, for example:
>> http://www.networkworld.com/article/2897199/opensource-subnet/review-dells-ubuntu-powered-m3800-mobile-workstation-is-a-desktop-destroyer.html).
> Usually the DE has somewhere where you can tell it how high the DPI is
> for your screen and it will scale elements accordingly, however this
> usually won't work across the board.
Make sure not to have different displays on the same desktop with
drastically different DPIs. I've had a laptop with a fairly high
resolution, and connected a monitor that was both bigger and had lower
resolution. The result was that the DPI of the laptop display was almost
twice that of the external monitor. Things did not look good. Things
were either too small on the built-in display or too big on the external
one.

Also, in my previous email on the subject I said that almost everything
works with Linux, but was then hard pressed to say what didn't. I have,
since, remembered. Some Dell laptops have a built in
smartcard/fingerprint reader. That one is completely and hopelessly
unsupported on Linux. That was the only hardware component I failed to
make work.

Shachar
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Thu Dec 24 00:51:11 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 00:51:11 +0200
Subject: The Dell Precision M3800 Laptop
In-Reply-To: <567ADFCE.9050106@shemesh.biz>
References: <1450813696.12659.106.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CAHTx_BNbQi=TzwbcwCt+kf0npkVthvur_Qd=7o0kq7UPCJUXug@mail.gmail.com>
 <567ADFCE.9050106@shemesh.biz>
Message-ID: <1450911071.4347.15.camel@zak.co.il>

Thanks for the feedback and advice, Shachar.

When I'll have 4K displays, I'll worry about the resolution differences.
At present, I don't care about smartcard/fingerprint readers.

One of the problems, which I worry about, is that Ely Levy was very
unhappy with the M3800 that he got. If no one else was as unhappy with
it, Ely may have gotten a lemon.

Another problem is that according to what I found while googling it, the
docking station mentioned with the laptop (Dell Docking Station USB 3.0
- D3100) is not supported by Linux (or maybe supported using proprietary
drivers limited to some Linux distributions).

I need something to connect 2-3 additional displays to the laptop (3
displays if the laptop's own display is disabled).

--- Omer


On Wed, 2015-12-23 at 19:54 +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> On 23/12/15 10:54, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> > 2015-12-22 21:48 GMT+02:00 Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>:
> > > As I said few weeks ago, I am considering the purchase of a new laptop
> > > to replace my current desktop PC and also serve me on the road.
> > > 
> > > It was suggested to me to consider purchasing the Dell Precision M3800
> > > laptop.
> > > 
> > > Before ordering it, I'd like to know if anyone else bought it and if
> > > yes, what is his/her experience. Specific questions appear below.
> > > 
> > > From the reviews that I read, the laptop suffers from a battery life
> > > deficiency (which does not bother me). Also, the 4K display option
> > > causes a lot of software to display too small graphical elements.
> > > (see, for example:
> > > http://www.networkworld.com/article/2897199/opensource-subnet/review-dells-ubuntu-powered-m3800-mobile-workstation-is-a-desktop-destroyer.html).
> > Usually the DE has somewhere where you can tell it how high the DPI is
> > for your screen and it will scale elements accordingly, however this
> > usually won't work across the board.
> Make sure not to have different displays on the same desktop with
> drastically different DPIs. I've had a laptop with a fairly high
> resolution, and connected a monitor that was both bigger and had lower
> resolution. The result was that the DPI of the laptop display was
> almost twice that of the external monitor. Things did not look good.
> Things were either too small on the built-in display or too big on the
> external one.
> 
> Also, in my previous email on the subject I said that almost
> everything works with Linux, but was then hard pressed to say what
> didn't. I have, since, remembered. Some Dell laptops have a built in
> smartcard/fingerprint reader. That one is completely and hopelessly
> unsupported on Linux. That was the only hardware component I failed to
> make work.

-- 
More proof the End of the World has started. Just saw this online:
I think it's beginning! Ten minutes ago there was a group of people
waiting at the bus stop outside my house. Now, they're all gone!
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From w1 at zak.co.il  Thu Dec 24 12:17:32 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:17:32 +0200
Subject: Alternate docking station for the Dell Precision M3800? (Re: The
 Dell Precision M3800 Laptop)
In-Reply-To: <1450911071.4347.15.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1450813696.12659.106.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CAHTx_BNbQi=TzwbcwCt+kf0npkVthvur_Qd=7o0kq7UPCJUXug@mail.gmail.com>
 <567ADFCE.9050106@shemesh.biz> <1450911071.4347.15.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <1450952252.4347.46.camel@zak.co.il>

The computer shop which suggested to me the Dell Precision M3800 laptop
suggests that the E-port with 210W adapter
(http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=my&l=en&s=dhs&cs=mydhs1&sku=450-14000) be used with the laptop.

I googled for Linux support for this adapter, but found no information.
About using 3 displays with the laptop (2 + laptop's own, or 3
external), it seems to be possible according to:
http://superuser.com/questions/369488/will-the-e-port-plus-laptop-docking-station-allow-me-to-use-three-viewports-moni

Does anyone have experience using it with Linux?
BTW there is another model with confusingly similar name and more
connections:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&sku=430-3312&s=bsd).

Thanks,
--- Omer Zak


On Thu, 2015-12-24 at 00:51 +0200, Omer Zak wrote:
> Another problem is that according to what I found while googling it, the
> docking station mentioned with the laptop (Dell Docking Station USB 3.0
> - D3100) is not supported by Linux (or maybe supported using proprietary
> drivers limited to some Linux distributions).
> 
> I need something to connect 2-3 additional displays to the laptop (3
> displays if the laptop's own display is disabled).



From erez0001 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 12:21:16 2015
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:21:16 +0200
Subject: Testing my network for vulnerabilities
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wm3dT=NVibfuxCr=z_mrSQh8a3b=U=bTfO4i2h8rLZ40A@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to tighten my internal network security and to protect against
rouge computers on my LAN.

Anybody knows of a good tool to scan my network for vulnerabilities ?
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From rabin at rabin.io  Thu Dec 24 12:49:33 2015
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 12:49:33 +0200
Subject: Testing my network for vulnerabilities
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wm3dT=NVibfuxCr=z_mrSQh8a3b=U=bTfO4i2h8rLZ40A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wm3dT=NVibfuxCr=z_mrSQh8a3b=U=bTfO4i2h8rLZ40A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEBzmp2BEYUDgXQShjKvTYzc_UL5T+v-o-CU86notjv6zg@mail.gmail.com>

use Kali Linux which come preloaded with many security tools,
and check out OpenVAS.


--
Rabin

On 24 December 2015 at 12:21, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to tighten my internal network security and to protect
> against rouge computers on my LAN.
>
> Anybody knows of a good tool to scan my network for vulnerabilities ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From mordbe0 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 19:55:48 2015
From: mordbe0 at gmail.com (Mord Behar)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 19:55:48 +0200
Subject: OT: Android Marshmallow and contacts
Message-ID: <CAJzkJxEUhGEt9MRir-tPZSV7anF2+o+jjXyFPxNfKmvoUN8jiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I posted this to the Android list, but I don't think anybody reads it...

Anyway, I got an update to Android 6.0 on my Moto X. I was really looking
forward to this, but it seems that something is broken with the caller ID.

After going through a few forums it turns out that there is some
discrepancy between how the numbers are stored in Contacts (only local area
codes) and how the Phone app is searching for numbers (with an
international dialing code +972). It could be that the service provider
(Golan, in my case) is contributing to this confusion.

There are a few workarounds, including creating duplicate copies of all
numbers with/without international number, deleting and restoring all
contacts and rewriting all contacts.

None of those appeal to me, for the simple reason that they are only
workarounds and don't provide a solution to the underlying problem.

Had anybody encountered this problem? Has this issue been raised to Golan?
Google? Does anybody know of a solution?
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Thu Dec 24 20:14:10 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 20:14:10 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <20151223093237.GK2167@tarsus.local2>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il> <20151223093237.GK2167@tarsus.local2>
Message-ID: <1450980850.4347.50.camel@zak.co.il>

As it turned out, it did not matter that I misunderstood tlp's name.
The package tlp exists only in Debian Stretch (testing) and in Debian
Sid (unstable), and my PC runs on Debian Jessie, so there is no tlp in
my near future.

On Wed, 2015-12-23 at 09:32 +0000, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> Omer Zak wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 13:54:50 +0200:
> > At your hint, I have installed powertop.
> > I did not find a tip in Debian, but there is a tiptop command in my
> > system.
> 
> Rabin wrote "tlp" with an 'L', not "tip" with an 'I'.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> > How can they help me diagnose USB problems?
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 13:35 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> > > do you install/use powertop or tlp ?

-- 
Did you shave a yak today?
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From moish at mln.co.il  Thu Dec 24 20:10:23 2015
From: moish at mln.co.il (Moish)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 20:10:23 +0200
Subject: OT: Android Marshmallow and contacts
In-Reply-To: <CAJzkJxEUhGEt9MRir-tPZSV7anF2+o+jjXyFPxNfKmvoUN8jiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJzkJxEUhGEt9MRir-tPZSV7anF2+o+jjXyFPxNfKmvoUN8jiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567C350F.6050807@mln.co.il>

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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Fri Dec 25 00:03:48 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 00:03:48 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <1450980850.4347.50.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il>
 <20151223093237.GK2167@tarsus.local2>
 <1450980850.4347.50.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BMro=-BSkLgy_zw7ABifYSttQwna6M1CJtnZjLDEV=2Vg@mail.gmail.com>

Unless it has dependencies that force you 'onward' there is no reason
not to download the deb and install it manually....

2015-12-24 20:14 GMT+02:00 Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>:
> As it turned out, it did not matter that I misunderstood tlp's name.
> The package tlp exists only in Debian Stretch (testing) and in Debian
> Sid (unstable), and my PC runs on Debian Jessie, so there is no tlp in
> my near future.
>
> On Wed, 2015-12-23 at 09:32 +0000, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
>> Omer Zak wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 13:54:50 +0200:
>> > At your hint, I have installed powertop.
>> > I did not find a tip in Debian, but there is a tiptop command in my
>> > system.
>>
>> Rabin wrote "tlp" with an 'L', not "tip" with an 'I'.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> > How can they help me diagnose USB problems?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 13:35 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
>> > > do you install/use powertop or tlp ?
>
> --
> Did you shave a yak today?
> My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
>
> My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
> I may be affiliated in any way.
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il


From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 07:48:46 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 16:48:46 +1100
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BMro=-BSkLgy_zw7ABifYSttQwna6M1CJtnZjLDEV=2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il>
 <20151223093237.GK2167@tarsus.local2>
 <1450980850.4347.50.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CAHTx_BMro=-BSkLgy_zw7ABifYSttQwna6M1CJtnZjLDEV=2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WX-w341Q6SJygTR+BgdRwKkrwVwQq87HJoMzhNk6g0S2w@mail.gmail.com>

Backports?
https://packages.debian.org/jessie-backports/
On 25 Dec 2015 9:04 a.m., "E.S. Rosenberg" <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:

> Unless it has dependencies that force you 'onward' there is no reason
> not to download the deb and install it manually....
>
> 2015-12-24 20:14 GMT+02:00 Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>:
> > As it turned out, it did not matter that I misunderstood tlp's name.
> > The package tlp exists only in Debian Stretch (testing) and in Debian
> > Sid (unstable), and my PC runs on Debian Jessie, so there is no tlp in
> > my near future.
> >
> > On Wed, 2015-12-23 at 09:32 +0000, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> >> Omer Zak wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 13:54:50 +0200:
> >> > At your hint, I have installed powertop.
> >> > I did not find a tip in Debian, but there is a tiptop command in my
> >> > system.
> >>
> >> Rabin wrote "tlp" with an 'L', not "tip" with an 'I'.
> >>
> >> Daniel
> >>
> >> > How can they help me diagnose USB problems?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 13:35 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> >> > > do you install/use powertop or tlp ?
> >
> > --
> > Did you shave a yak today?
> > My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/
> >
> > My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
> > They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
> > I may be affiliated in any way.
> > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From mordbe0 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 09:05:00 2015
From: mordbe0 at gmail.com (Mord Behar)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 09:05:00 +0200
Subject: OT: Android Marshmallow and contacts
In-Reply-To: <567C350F.6050807@mln.co.il>
References: <CAJzkJxEUhGEt9MRir-tPZSV7anF2+o+jjXyFPxNfKmvoUN8jiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <567C350F.6050807@mln.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAJzkJxFzswF+cdi=Ec2A5o0QTVUhWTOJfzqKJ-CbnsJ+Q=+_-w@mail.gmail.com>

That was one of the less destructive workarounds that I had found, and
tried.
It didn't work. I cleared the cache and data of both the Contacts app and
the Google app. And yes, they are stock Google apps.
If you are using Google app then clear cache and data of its contacts app,
using application manager under settings.
Actually it'll be useful for any app.
Now, If your are using a proprietary Moto app, It just might be that its
local storage is corrupted.
In that case, make a backup before clearing data.

On 24/12/2015 19:55, Mord Behar wrote:

Hi

I posted this to the Android list, but I don't think anybody reads it...

Anyway, I got an update to Android 6.0 on my Moto X. I was really looking
forward to this, but it seems that something is broken with the caller ID.

After going through a few forums it turns out that there is some
discrepancy between how the numbers are stored in Contacts (only local area
codes) and how the Phone app is searching for numbers (with an
international dialing code +972). It could be that the service provider
(Golan, in my case) is contributing to this confusion.

There are a few workarounds, including creating duplicate copies of all
numbers with/without international number, deleting and restoring all
contacts and rewriting all contacts.

None of those appeal to me, for the simple reason that they are only
workarounds and don't provide a solution to the underlying problem.

Had anybody encountered this problem? Has this issue been raised to Golan?
Google? Does anybody know of a solution?


_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing
listLinux-il at cs.huji.ac.ilhttp://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il


-- 
Moish
0546484411


_______________________________________________
Linux-il mailing list
Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Fri Dec 25 16:33:17 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 16:33:17 +0200
Subject: How to search Linux Kernel changelogs? (USB disconnect problem)
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WX-w341Q6SJygTR+BgdRwKkrwVwQq87HJoMzhNk6g0S2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1450695199.12659.12.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CABKuJEDC4D7T1XxRV0GYiJQFadQ0z=6Va==Zs_h5MSdhvGMY6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1450698890.12659.15.camel@zak.co.il> <20151223093237.GK2167@tarsus.local2>
 <1450980850.4347.50.camel@zak.co.il>
 <CAHTx_BMro=-BSkLgy_zw7ABifYSttQwna6M1CJtnZjLDEV=2Vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX-w341Q6SJygTR+BgdRwKkrwVwQq87HJoMzhNk6g0S2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1451053997.4347.73.camel@zak.co.il>

My sources.list already has jessie-backports, and tlp was not backported
to Debian Jessie.

On Fri, 2015-12-25 at 16:48 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote:
> Backports?
> https://packages.debian.org/jessie-backports/
> 
> On 25 Dec 2015 9:04 a.m., "E.S. Rosenberg" <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il>
> wrote:
>         Unless it has dependencies that force you 'onward' there is no
>         reason
>         not to download the deb and install it manually....
>         
>         2015-12-24 20:14 GMT+02:00 Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il>:
>         > As it turned out, it did not matter that I misunderstood
>         tlp's name.
>         > The package tlp exists only in Debian Stretch (testing) and
>         in Debian
>         > Sid (unstable), and my PC runs on Debian Jessie, so there is
>         no tlp in
>         > my near future.
>         >
>         > On Wed, 2015-12-23 at 09:32 +0000, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
>         >> Omer Zak wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 13:54:50 +0200:
>         >> > At your hint, I have installed powertop.
>         >> > I did not find a tip in Debian, but there is a tiptop
>         command in my
>         >> > system.
>         >>
>         >> Rabin wrote "tlp" with an 'L', not "tip" with an 'I'.
>         >>
>         >> Daniel
>         >>
>         >> > How can they help me diagnose USB problems?
>         >> >
>         >> >
>         >> > On Mon, 2015-12-21 at 13:35 +0200, Rabin Yasharzadehe
>         wrote:
>         >> > > do you install/use powertop or tlp ?

-- 
Did you shave a yak today?
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From rami at active.co.il  Mon Dec 28 15:03:10 2015
From: rami at active.co.il (Rami Addady)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:03:10 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <CAD_ZK64tJXgwsyh6Kx=5W9-p97=gPEg9qtB_BSe8Lmn6ax3n4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEsznC6RwhiBfOKSpinv=jc_u-dP=UbXnmTfxWU6OD2xOon_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_ZK64tJXgwsyh6Kx=5W9-p97=gPEg9qtB_BSe8Lmn6ax3n4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5681330E.8090306@active.co.il>

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From amichai at iglu.org.il  Mon Dec 28 15:28:36 2015
From: amichai at iglu.org.il (Amichai Rotman)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:28:36 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <5681330E.8090306@active.co.il>
References: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEsznC6RwhiBfOKSpinv=jc_u-dP=UbXnmTfxWU6OD2xOon_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_ZK64tJXgwsyh6Kx=5W9-p97=gPEg9qtB_BSe8Lmn6ax3n4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <5681330E.8090306@active.co.il>
Message-ID: <CAD_ZK64hibueu7fvw0dyxgSuuM6mJsUMxS+rfNybs2m=E_dJ_A@mail.gmail.com>

Sadly, no.

Still the same. I have the DE integration installed/ it is Ubuntu 14.04.3
with Unity DE. it gets installed by default...

Amichai.

2015-12-28 15:03 GMT+02:00 Rami Addady <rami at active.co.il>:

> Amichai,
>
> I'm having the same problem. Did you found solution?
>
> Rami
>
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2015 01:39 PM, Amichai Rotman wrote:
>
> Sorry,
>
> Tried your solution:
>
> Check the "Ignore System Language Input" in the Language settings.
>
> No cigar...
>
> I also noticed people report the bug still exists.
>
> I am using Ubuntu 14.04 with Unity DE. I think it is related to the
> Keyboard Input Method System in the Language Settings. It is currently set
> to 'none'. Setting it to 'IBus' didn't change anything. I read somewhere I
> sould change it to 'xkbd' - but i am not sure and I don't  know how to do
> it...
>
> Amichai.
>
> 2015-12-12 13:04 GMT+02:00 Lior Kaplan <kaplanlior at gmail.com>:
>
>> LibreOffice used to have a problem with this, but it got fixed a few
>> releases ago: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41169
>>
>> I don't any any issues with LibrePffice 5.0.x on Debian testing (tried
>> CTRL+B, CTRL+C and CTRL+V while in Hebrew layout).
>>
>> Kaplan
>>
>>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Amichai Rotman < <amichai at iglu.org.il>
> amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Can someone explain to me, once and for all, what's the issue with
>> entering keyboard shortcuts (i.e.: CTRL-C) while in Hebrew Layout in
>> LibreOffice on Ubuntu?
>>
>> I call it an issue, because I understand it isn't a bug. It has something
>> to do with the text entry in Ubuntu, and if I change the text entry mode -
>> problem solved!
>>
>> I really hate having to switch to English every time I need to copy or
>> pate text...
>>
>> I promise I'll write up a Hebrew HOWTO guide for the community, as soon
>> as i successfully fix this annoyance.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Amichai Rotman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing listLinux-il at cs.huji.ac.ilhttp://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From dov.grobgeld at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 22:17:04 2015
From: dov.grobgeld at gmail.com (Dov Grobgeld)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 22:17:04 +0200
Subject: Entering Shortcuts While in Hebrew Layout - LibreOffice on Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <CAD_ZK64hibueu7fvw0dyxgSuuM6mJsUMxS+rfNybs2m=E_dJ_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD_ZK65tkVFKMCs8o7aSGT2MRAgTaUNNKwZ2rQReAe6OM0dADQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEsznC6RwhiBfOKSpinv=jc_u-dP=UbXnmTfxWU6OD2xOon_Vw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_ZK64tJXgwsyh6Kx=5W9-p97=gPEg9qtB_BSe8Lmn6ax3n4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <5681330E.8090306@active.co.il>
 <CAD_ZK64hibueu7fvw0dyxgSuuM6mJsUMxS+rfNybs2m=E_dJ_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA++fsGEeeobpLxvbdPRg1_hD10YpTB_Q4dZ3avyc1U14P_e3sQ@mail.gmail.com>

I use Ctrl-Insert and Shift-Insert for copy and paste respectively, which
has the advantage of working under any keyboard layout. Works in browser,
emacs, terminal, etc.

Of course this doesn't other bindings of emacs when in Hebrew.

Dov


On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:

> Sadly, no.
>
> Still the same. I have the DE integration installed/ it is Ubuntu 14.04.3
> with Unity DE. it gets installed by default...
>
> Amichai.
>
> 2015-12-28 15:03 GMT+02:00 Rami Addady <rami at active.co.il>:
>
>> Amichai,
>>
>> I'm having the same problem. Did you found solution?
>>
>> Rami
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/2015 01:39 PM, Amichai Rotman wrote:
>>
>> Sorry,
>>
>> Tried your solution:
>>
>> Check the "Ignore System Language Input" in the Language settings.
>>
>> No cigar...
>>
>> I also noticed people report the bug still exists.
>>
>> I am using Ubuntu 14.04 with Unity DE. I think it is related to the
>> Keyboard Input Method System in the Language Settings. It is currently set
>> to 'none'. Setting it to 'IBus' didn't change anything. I read somewhere I
>> sould change it to 'xkbd' - but i am not sure and I don't  know how to do
>> it...
>>
>> Amichai.
>>
>> 2015-12-12 13:04 GMT+02:00 Lior Kaplan <kaplanlior at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> LibreOffice used to have a problem with this, but it got fixed a few
>>> releases ago: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41169
>>>
>>> I don't any any issues with LibrePffice 5.0.x on Debian testing (tried
>>> CTRL+B, CTRL+C and CTRL+V while in Hebrew layout).
>>>
>>> Kaplan
>>>
>>>
>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Amichai Rotman < <amichai at iglu.org.il>
>> amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Can someone explain to me, once and for all, what's the issue with
>>> entering keyboard shortcuts (i.e.: CTRL-C) while in Hebrew Layout in
>>> LibreOffice on Ubuntu?
>>>
>>> I call it an issue, because I understand it isn't a bug. It has
>>> something to do with the text entry in Ubuntu, and if I change the text
>>> entry mode - problem solved!
>>>
>>> I really hate having to switch to English every time I need to copy or
>>> pate text...
>>>
>>> I promise I'll write up a Hebrew HOWTO guide for the community, as soon
>>> as i successfully fix this annoyance.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Amichai Rotman
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing listLinux-il at cs.huji.ac.ilhttp://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From kaplanlior at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 16:37:01 2015
From: kaplanlior at gmail.com (Lior Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:37:01 +0200
Subject: [job] Looking for Apache Solr person
Message-ID: <CAEsznC7f2sqVbcWQXKTjHG45aMQdOZtOpGbaihXKBYbayxPiJw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I was asked to help finding someone who can work on a project related to
Apache Solr in Israel.

Contact me if you're interested.

Kaplan
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From softkol at netvision.net.il  Thu Dec 31 17:26:45 2015
From: softkol at netvision.net.il (Israel Shikler)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:26:45 +0200
Subject: Problems while trying to install CENTOS 7
In-Reply-To: <CAEsznC7f2sqVbcWQXKTjHG45aMQdOZtOpGbaihXKBYbayxPiJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEsznC7f2sqVbcWQXKTjHG45aMQdOZtOpGbaihXKBYbayxPiJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAAcRMUZMz1pHrgqTtUbbeFnCgAAAEAAAAKzqavCfebRKuOeQcAV49PIBAAAAAA==@netvision.net.il>

I  downloaded Centos 7 from a mirror site in Israel,
In the first time I created an installation dvd by imgburn and got the
following message while installing:
Error msg: centos 7 dev/root does not exist
In the second time the dvd was crated via expressburn, this time I got :
Error msg: not a com32r image
 
Any idea what could go wrong?
Any help will be aprreiciated
 
Israel Shikler
 
050-2885100
 
 
 
 
 
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 18:18:24 2015
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 18:18:24 +0200
Subject: Problems while trying to install CENTOS 7
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAAcRMUZMz1pHrgqTtUbbeFnCgAAAEAAAAKzqavCfebRKuOeQcAV49PIBAAAAAA==@netvision.net.il>
References: <CAEsznC7f2sqVbcWQXKTjHG45aMQdOZtOpGbaihXKBYbayxPiJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAAcRMUZMz1pHrgqTtUbbeFnCgAAAEAAAAKzqavCfebRKuOeQcAV49PIBAAAAAA==@netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <CANy4znXnakarSSv=wDT1OMJ1O3EDuGDTGwH4Kdb=jay=Bw6Kmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Israel!

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Israel Shikler <softkol at netvision.net.il>
wrote:

> I  downloaded Centos 7 from a mirror site in Israel,
> In the first time I created an installation dvd by imgburn and got the
> following message while installing:
> Error msg: centos 7 dev/root does not exist
> In the second time the dvd was crated via expressburn, this time I got :
> Error msg: not a com32r image
>
> Any idea what could go wrong?
>

Did you verify that the SHA-256 sum of the .iso file is correct? See
http://mirror.isoc.org.il/pub/centos/7.2.1511/isos/x86_64/sha256sum.txt -
if there's a mismatch then you'll need to use rsync (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rsync ) or zsync (see
http://zsync.moria.org.uk/ ) to make sure you got the right file contents.
Otherwise, it's possible that you have used bad DVD media or that your
hardware is incompatible with CentOS 7 (or faulty).

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish

-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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