From alan at tkos.co.il  Mon Jan  5 14:09:06 2015
From: alan at tkos.co.il (Alan Yaniger)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 14:09:06 +0200
Subject: Hebrew subject text in mutt
Message-ID: <20150105120905.GA7289@tkos.co.il>

Hi Linux-IL members,

I'm using bidiv to read Hebrew in mutt.

It works ok with reading Hebrew messages, but not when reading the
subject headers, which still show the Hebrew backwards.

So I wrote the following script caled "bidi_index" to enable reading of Hebrew in the subjects:

echo $@ > /tmp/index.out && bidiv /tmp/index.out

and I added to .muttrc the following:

set index_format = "/home/alan/.mutt/bidi_index %D %-15.15L   %s (%Z) |"

(I tried piping the text directly to bidiv, but I got an error, so I write to a temp file, and I have my script read the temp file.)

Mutt shows the Hebrew properly, but it creates a new problem. The minimum length for the sender's name no longer works. My setting is for a minimum length of 15 chars, as in the index_format setting I quoted above, but if the name is less than 15 chars, mutt does not pad the rest of the 15 chars with blanks.

This problem doesn't exist if I don't pipe to my script.

Does anyone know how to fix with this problem, or does anyone have an alternative way of displaying Hebrew in mutt (which you've checked gets around this problem)?  

I'm using Mutt 1.5.21 (2010-09-15) on a gnome-terminal in Ubuntu 12.04,
with LC_ALL="en_US.utf8".

Thanks,
Alan

-- 
Alan Yaniger
Tk Open Systems, Ltd
Telephone: 0546-841-481
Skype: alanyaniger
http://tkos.co.il


From rabin at rabin.io  Mon Jan  5 14:22:29 2015
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 14:22:29 +0200
Subject: Hebrew subject text in mutt
In-Reply-To: <20150105120905.GA7289@tkos.co.il>
References: <20150105120905.GA7289@tkos.co.il>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEAY2N_eUXQYfHvYp=et8CTYtJ9xUOJkVJv6NiJS3mmLtw@mail.gmail.com>

You can try and use mlterm.

--
Rabin

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Alan Yaniger <alan at tkos.co.il> wrote:

> Hi Linux-IL members,
>
> I'm using bidiv to read Hebrew in mutt.
>
> It works ok with reading Hebrew messages, but not when reading the
> subject headers, which still show the Hebrew backwards.
>
> So I wrote the following script caled "bidi_index" to enable reading of
> Hebrew in the subjects:
>
> echo $@ > /tmp/index.out && bidiv /tmp/index.out
>
> and I added to .muttrc the following:
>
> set index_format = "/home/alan/.mutt/bidi_index %D %-15.15L   %s (%Z) |"
>
> (I tried piping the text directly to bidiv, but I got an error, so I write
> to a temp file, and I have my script read the temp file.)
>
> Mutt shows the Hebrew properly, but it creates a new problem. The minimum
> length for the sender's name no longer works. My setting is for a minimum
> length of 15 chars, as in the index_format setting I quoted above, but if
> the name is less than 15 chars, mutt does not pad the rest of the 15 chars
> with blanks.
>
> This problem doesn't exist if I don't pipe to my script.
>
> Does anyone know how to fix with this problem, or does anyone have an
> alternative way of displaying Hebrew in mutt (which you've checked gets
> around this problem)?
>
> I'm using Mutt 1.5.21 (2010-09-15) on a gnome-terminal in Ubuntu 12.04,
> with LC_ALL="en_US.utf8".
>
> Thanks,
> Alan
>
> --
> Alan Yaniger
> Tk Open Systems, Ltd
> Telephone: 0546-841-481
> Skype: alanyaniger
> http://tkos.co.il
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From alan at tkos.co.il  Mon Jan  5 14:33:25 2015
From: alan at tkos.co.il (Alan Yaniger)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 14:33:25 +0200
Subject: Hebrew subject text in mutt
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEAY2N_eUXQYfHvYp=et8CTYtJ9xUOJkVJv6NiJS3mmLtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150105120905.GA7289@tkos.co.il>
 <CABKuJEAY2N_eUXQYfHvYp=et8CTYtJ9xUOJkVJv6NiJS3mmLtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150105123325.GB7289@tkos.co.il>

Hi Rabin,

I've used and tried mlterm, and there's no difference. If you have
checked that this gets around the problem, please let me know, and we
can compare configurations.

Alan

On 05/01/15 14:22, Rabin Yasharzadehe wrote:
> You can try and use mlterm.
> 
> --
> Rabin
> 
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Alan Yaniger <alan at tkos.co.il> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Linux-IL members,
> >
> > I'm using bidiv to read Hebrew in mutt.
> >
> > It works ok with reading Hebrew messages, but not when reading the
> > subject headers, which still show the Hebrew backwards.
> >
> > So I wrote the following script caled "bidi_index" to enable reading of
> > Hebrew in the subjects:
> >
> > echo $@ > /tmp/index.out && bidiv /tmp/index.out
> >
> > and I added to .muttrc the following:
> >
> > set index_format = "/home/alan/.mutt/bidi_index %D %-15.15L   %s (%Z) |"
> >
> > (I tried piping the text directly to bidiv, but I got an error, so I write
> > to a temp file, and I have my script read the temp file.)
> >
> > Mutt shows the Hebrew properly, but it creates a new problem. The minimum
> > length for the sender's name no longer works. My setting is for a minimum
> > length of 15 chars, as in the index_format setting I quoted above, but if
> > the name is less than 15 chars, mutt does not pad the rest of the 15 chars
> > with blanks.
> >
> > This problem doesn't exist if I don't pipe to my script.
> >
> > Does anyone know how to fix with this problem, or does anyone have an
> > alternative way of displaying Hebrew in mutt (which you've checked gets
> > around this problem)?
> >
> > I'm using Mutt 1.5.21 (2010-09-15) on a gnome-terminal in Ubuntu 12.04,
> > with LC_ALL="en_US.utf8".
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alan
> >
> > --
> > Alan Yaniger
> > Tk Open Systems, Ltd
> > Telephone: 0546-841-481
> > Skype: alanyaniger
> > http://tkos.co.il
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >

-- 
Alan Yaniger
Tk Open Systems, Ltd
Telephone: 0546-841-481
Skype: alanyaniger
http://tkos.co.il


From alan at tkos.co.il  Mon Jan  5 18:31:27 2015
From: alan at tkos.co.il (Alan Yaniger)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 18:31:27 +0200
Subject: Hebrew subject text in mutt
In-Reply-To: <20150105161732.GE1797@tarsus.local2>
References: <20150105120905.GA7289@tkos.co.il>
 <20150105161732.GE1797@tarsus.local2>
Message-ID: <20150105163127.GA11237@tkos.co.il>

Hi Daniel,

On 05/01/15 16:17, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
<snip> 
> Did you try changing
>     echo $@
> to
>     echo "$@"?
> 
Thanks, that caused a major improvement.

Alan

-- 
Alan Yaniger
Tk Open Systems, Ltd
Telephone: 0546-841-481
Skype: alanyaniger
http://tkos.co.il


From d.s at daniel.shahaf.name  Mon Jan  5 18:17:32 2015
From: d.s at daniel.shahaf.name (Daniel Shahaf)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 16:17:32 +0000
Subject: Hebrew subject text in mutt
In-Reply-To: <20150105120905.GA7289@tkos.co.il>
References: <20150105120905.GA7289@tkos.co.il>
Message-ID: <20150105161732.GE1797@tarsus.local2>

Alan Yaniger wrote on Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 14:09:06 +0200:
> Hi Linux-IL members,
> 
> I'm using bidiv to read Hebrew in mutt.
> 
> It works ok with reading Hebrew messages, but not when reading the
> subject headers, which still show the Hebrew backwards.
> 

Personally, I set edit_headers=on, and when I want to "reverse" an RTL
subject or body I type 'g' to open it in $EDITOR, read it there, and
then discard the editor.  That's not a great solution but it works well
when the volume of RTL mail is low.

(more below)

> So I wrote the following script caled "bidi_index" to enable reading of Hebrew in the subjects:
> 
> echo $@ > /tmp/index.out && bidiv /tmp/index.out
> 
> and I added to .muttrc the following:
> 
> set index_format = "/home/alan/.mutt/bidi_index %D %-15.15L   %s (%Z) |"
> 
> (I tried piping the text directly to bidiv, but I got an error, so I write to a temp file, and I have my script read the temp file.)
> 
> Mutt shows the Hebrew properly, but it creates a new problem. The minimum length for the sender's name no longer works. My setting is for a minimum length of 15 chars, as in the index_format setting I quoted above, but if the name is less than 15 chars, mutt does not pad the rest of the 15 chars with blanks.
> 
> This problem doesn't exist if I don't pipe to my script.
> 
> Does anyone know how to fix with this problem, or does anyone have an alternative way of displaying Hebrew in mutt (which you've checked gets around this problem)?  
> 

Did you try changing
    echo $@
to
    echo "$@"?

The difference:

% sh -c 'echo $@' - 'foo     ' bar   
foo bar
% sh -c 'echo "$@"' - 'foo     ' bar 
foo      bar

That's still not robust ? it breaks when $1 is -e or -n.  If that's a
concern, use printf(1) instead of echo.

Cheers,

Daniel

> I'm using Mutt 1.5.21 (2010-09-15) on a gnome-terminal in Ubuntu 12.04,
> with LC_ALL="en_US.utf8".


From danshimsh at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 20:56:29 2015
From: danshimsh at gmail.com (Dan Shimshoni)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 20:56:29 +0200
Subject: Question about Linux installation and selecting a language
Message-ID: <CACuRQ2+qM3rZJiLJs01KaxJqmJP2rv-xN=kbkVkXF=qAP5PjBA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Linux-IL,

I had installed Fedora 21 on x86_64 (server, and with kde). When
installation started, I selected the language as "british english" and not
"American English".

Now when I log in and press some keys, I get unwanted results.
For example, when pressing @ I get the " character.

Now with the same PC and this same keyboard, with F20 and the default
american english everything is fine, no such problem (I did not try with
british english though).

Any ideas how this problem can be resolved ?

Regards,
DanS
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Mon Jan  5 21:19:07 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 21:19:07 +0200
Subject: Question about Linux installation and selecting a language
In-Reply-To: <CACuRQ2+qM3rZJiLJs01KaxJqmJP2rv-xN=kbkVkXF=qAP5PjBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACuRQ2+qM3rZJiLJs01KaxJqmJP2rv-xN=kbkVkXF=qAP5PjBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zj9xf32s.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Dan Shimshoni <danshimsh at gmail.com> writes:

> I had installed Fedora 21 on x86_64 (server, and with kde). When
> installation started, I selected the language as "british?english" and
> not "American English".

I am guessing the installation chose a British keyboard for you. This is
a bit surprising because Red Hat, unlike some other distros (we'll
protect the guilty) usually ask a separate queston about keyboard
layout.


> Now when I log in and press some keys, I get unwanted results.
> For example, when pressing @ I get the " character.?

[snip]

> Any ideas how this problem can be resolved ??

I use a somewhat older Fedora, so YMMV, but in KDE open System Settings
-> Input Devices -> Keyboard Settings -> Layouts and select what suits
you (I assume American + Israeli?).

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From linux-il at didi.bardavid.org  Tue Jan  6 15:27:50 2015
From: linux-il at didi.bardavid.org (Yedidyah Bar David)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 15:27:50 +0200
Subject: [JOB OFFER] Community Impact and Action Lead for Fedora
Message-ID: <CAGtcZ6tG2WbkZyCrw-6WkAdQSOAgj_CpD4td38RO=_9in1KEAg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I was asked to forward this:

Red Hat is looking for a Fedora Community Action and Impact Lead to join
the Fedora Council and lead initiatives to grow the Fedora user and
developer communities, as well as make Red Hat and Fedora interactions
even more transparent and positive. The Council is responsible for
stewardship of the Fedora Project as a whole, and supports the health
and growth of the Fedora community. In this role, you'll facilitate
decision making on how to best focus the Fedora community budget to meet
our collective objectives, work with other council members to identify
the short, medium, and long-term goals of the Fedora community, and
organize and enable the project. You will also participate in decision
making about use of trademarks, project structure, community disputes or
complaints, and other issues. In this position, you'll hold a full
council membership, and not an auxiliary or advisory role.

http://jobs.redhat.com/jobs/descriptions/fedora-community-action-and-impact-lead-westford-massachusetts-job-1-4988121

Best,
-- 
Didi
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 10:16:45 2015
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 10:16:45 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>

hello.

I have an iptables question

i have the following

ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 .. computer99

i have no control over NAT1.
computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.

linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and also
reach computer1

so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets from
internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1 $ext_ip
up' on computer1.
this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well

so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but will
not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
howerver i do not know how to do that

anyone ?
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From linux-il at shimi.net  Wed Jan  7 11:35:47 2015
From: linux-il at shimi.net (shimi)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 11:35:47 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> hello.
>
> I have an iptables question
>
> i have the following
>
> ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 .. computer99
>
> i have no control over NAT1.
> computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.
>
> linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
> however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and also
> reach computer1
>
> so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets from
> internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1 $ext_ip
> up' on computer1.
> this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
> ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well
>
> so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but will
> not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
> howerver i do not know how to do that
>
>
If computer1 can access ext_ip:7777, all you need is to allow ip_forward
(/etc/sysctl.conf for permanent, and echo 1 >
/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward) on computer1, and have all other computers
have a static route to ext_ip via computer1

Then, in computer1,

iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -o <interface going towards ext_ip> [ -i
<interface subnet of computers come from> ] -s <subnet of
computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport 7777 -j MASQUERADE

should do...

(of course, assuming the iptables FORWARD chain is not dropping those
packets; otherwise you'ld need an ACCEPT rule there, too...)

HTH,

-- Shimi
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From linux-il at shimi.net  Wed Jan  7 11:41:05 2015
From: linux-il at shimi.net (shimi)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 11:41:05 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
In-Reply-To: <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKnt4U-LpX2n8T1R0Prj2pQQDdG-jpg5SL=z3SeAeFqFQKjv_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:35 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> hello.
>>
>> I have an iptables question
>>
>> i have the following
>>
>> ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 .. computer99
>>
>> i have no control over NAT1.
>> computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.
>>
>> linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
>> however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and also
>> reach computer1
>>
>> so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets from
>> internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1 $ext_ip
>> up' on computer1.
>> this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
>> ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well
>>
>> so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but will
>> not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
>> howerver i do not know how to do that
>>
>>
> If computer1 can access ext_ip:7777, all you need is to allow ip_forward
> (/etc/sysctl.conf for permanent, and echo 1 >
> /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward) on computer1, and have all other computers
> have a static route to ext_ip via computer1
>
> Then, in computer1,
>
> iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -o <interface going towards ext_ip> [ -i
> <interface subnet of computers come from> ] -s <subnet of
> computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport 7777 -j MASQUERADE
>
> should do...
>
> (of course, assuming the iptables FORWARD chain is not dropping those
> packets; otherwise you'ld need an ACCEPT rule there, too...)
>
> HTH,
>
> -- Shimi
>
>
And on a second read, I think I got you wrong and the purpose was to access
computer1 port 7777 (hopefully listening on 0.0.0.0) from computersN by
using the external IP from the inside?

If so, did:

iptables -I PREROUTING -i <interface of computersN subnet> -s <subnet of
computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport -j REDIRECT --to-port 7777

not work?

-- Shimi
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From elazarl at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 11:50:01 2015
From: elazarl at gmail.com (Elazar Leibovich)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 09:50:01 +0000
Subject: Copying kernel stack in a generic way
References: <CAHNTFmK1KczUaXy=-+oWHeMGOamWoc-MG+1Mz6nEi2nEEVq-EQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20141221072757.GA6973@needle>
Message-ID: <CAHNTFm+T8qo+faDK-vAJKg0MQBV1SJakCL62GfBtyGJfKmQPrQ@mail.gmail.com>

For future reference.

I examined what perf does when sampling the stack, (e.g. "-g").

0. Indeed, it does not support callchain when sampling guest KVM OS.
Probably because it's not trivial to find out safely where the stack starts

http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/x86/kernel/cpu/perf_event.c#L1965
void
perf_callchain_kernel(struct perf_callchain_entry *entry, struct pt_regs
*regs)
{
if (perf_guest_cbs && perf_guest_cbs->is_in_guest()) {
* /* TODO: We don't support guest os callchain now */*
return;
}
perf_callchain_store(entry, regs->ip);
dump_trace(NULL, regs, NULL, 0, &backtrace_ops, entry);
}

1. It assumes the kernel is compiled with a frame pointer, and would walk
through frame pointer until it reaches an invalid one. Presumably there's
an invalid frame pointer at the top of the stack.
(stack walking func is print_context_stack_bp):

http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/x86/kernel/dumpstack.c#L122

while (valid_stack_ptr(tinfo, ret_addr, sizeof(*ret_addr), end)) {
unsigned long addr = *ret_addr;
if (!__kernel_text_address(addr))
break;
ops->address(data, addr, 1);
frame = frame->next_frame;
ret_addr = &frame->return_address;
print_ftrace_graph_addr(addr, data, ops, tinfo, graph);
}

On Sun Dec 21 2014 at 9:28:01 AM Muli Ben-Yehuda <mulix at mulix.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 02:19:07PM +0000, Elazar Leibovich wrote:
>
> > I know where the stack ends, but how can I know where it begins?
>
> What assumptions can you make? Can you run kernel code in the VM
> (e.g., by cloning and restarting it)? Can you assume it's running
> Linux and/or Windows? Can you assume the kernel was compiled with
> frame pointers? Or is it a completely black box VM and you can't make
> any assumptions about what's running inside?
>
> > I can check the memory mapping, and assume nothing would take the
> > virtual address before the start of the kernel's stack, but I don't
> > know if I can count on it for most mainstream OSes.
>
> That's a pretty good heuristic but see questions above.
>
> By the way, some OS's have separate interrupt stacks, so you may be on
> an interrupt stack or on a regular stack.
>
> > Maybe there's a known method I'm missing, I'll be happy for any
> > comments.
>
> Cheers,
> Muli
>
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 12:33:55 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 21:33:55 +1100
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need them?

I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence (+$10
some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for each
product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
hours a month if not less.

But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or using
an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
inconvenient.

So is there another way?

Thanks,

--Amos
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From aviram at jenik.com  Thu Jan  8 03:47:29 2015
From: aviram at jenik.com (Aviram Jenik)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:47:29 +0900
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But we do
have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.

We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on demand,
but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you work in a
drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy a
'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
so the hardware is "free".


- Aviram



On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need them?
>
> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence
> (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for
> each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
> more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
> hours a month if not less.
>
> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or using
> an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
> inconvenient.
>
> So is there another way?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Amos
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 04:40:32 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 13:40:32 +1100
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for high-load
(i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared to
something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
what's paid is paid).

On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:

> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But we do
> have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>
> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on demand,
> but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you work in a
> drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy a
> 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
> so the hardware is "free".
>
>
> - Aviram
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need them?
>>
>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence
>> (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for
>> each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
>> more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
>> hours a month if not less.
>>
>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or using
>> an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>> inconvenient.
>>
>> So is there another way?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --Amos
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>


-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 10:43:35 2015
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:43:35 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
In-Reply-To: <CAKnt4U-LpX2n8T1R0Prj2pQQDdG-jpg5SL=z3SeAeFqFQKjv_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-LpX2n8T1R0Prj2pQQDdG-jpg5SL=z3SeAeFqFQKjv_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wmwn-U5x0Os+O9t1NbT8xgkEz8N6k9cqZaiQKALw2zW=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:41 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:35 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> hello.
>>>
>>> I have an iptables question
>>>
>>> i have the following
>>>
>>> ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 ..
>>> computer99
>>>
>>> i have no control over NAT1.
>>> computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.
>>>
>>> linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
>>> however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and also
>>> reach computer1
>>>
>>> so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets from
>>> internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1 $ext_ip
>>> up' on computer1.
>>> this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
>>> ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well
>>>
>>> so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but will
>>> not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
>>> howerver i do not know how to do that
>>>
>>>
>> If computer1 can access ext_ip:7777, all you need is to allow ip_forward
>> (/etc/sysctl.conf for permanent, and echo 1 >
>> /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward) on computer1, and have all other computers
>> have a static route to ext_ip via computer1
>>
>> Then, in computer1,
>>
>> iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -o <interface going towards ext_ip> [ -i
>> <interface subnet of computers come from> ] -s <subnet of
>> computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport 7777 -j MASQUERADE
>>
>> should do...
>>
>> (of course, assuming the iptables FORWARD chain is not dropping those
>> packets; otherwise you'ld need an ACCEPT rule there, too...)
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> -- Shimi
>>
>>
> And on a second read, I think I got you wrong and the purpose was to
> access computer1 port 7777 (hopefully listening on 0.0.0.0) from computersN
> by using the external IP from the inside?
>
yes

>
> If so, did:
>
> couputerN default route is the linux firewall. without any rules on linux
firewall, it will forward packets from computer1 destined to ext_ip  to
NAT1. and they will not reach computer1 att all, so rules on computer 1 are
useless.
Doing a DNAT on linux firewall will direct the packets to computer1,
however computer 1 will know comuterN and will reply directly without going
through linux firewall, and computer1 will not match the packets to the
original connection.



> iptables -I PREROUTING -i <interface of computersN subnet> -s <subnet of
> computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport -j REDIRECT --to-port 7777
>
> not work?
>
> -- Shimi
>
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From linux at karasik.org  Thu Jan  8 10:59:54 2015
From: linux at karasik.org (Vitaly)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:59:54 +0200
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>

Amos,
IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as far as
you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can launch
instance automatically.
But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
technical solution exist.
If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer for
free?

And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
up-front pay isn't must anymore.

regards,
Vitaly

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for high-load
> (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared to
> something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
> what's paid is paid).
>
> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But we
>> do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>
>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on demand,
>> but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you work in a
>> drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy a
>> 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>> so the hardware is "free".
>>
>>
>> - Aviram
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need them?
>>>
>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence
>>> (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for
>>> each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
>>> more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
>>> hours a month if not less.
>>>
>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or
>>> using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>> inconvenient.
>>>
>>> So is there another way?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --Amos
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 11:37:55 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 20:37:55 +1100
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>

I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.

But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want to
(I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.

On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:

> Amos,
> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as far as
> you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can launch
> instance automatically.
> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
> technical solution exist.
> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer for
> free?
>
> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
> up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>
> regards,
> Vitaly
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for high-load
>> (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared to
>> something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
>> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
>> what's paid is paid).
>>
>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But we
>>> do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>
>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>
>>>
>>> - Aviram
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need them?
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence
>>>> (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for
>>>> each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
>>>> more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
>>>> hours a month if not less.
>>>>
>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or
>>>> using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>
>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --Amos
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>


-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From linux-il at shimi.net  Thu Jan  8 23:02:38 2015
From: linux-il at shimi.net (shimi)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 23:02:38 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wmwn-U5x0Os+O9t1NbT8xgkEz8N6k9cqZaiQKALw2zW=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-LpX2n8T1R0Prj2pQQDdG-jpg5SL=z3SeAeFqFQKjv_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMUp3wmwn-U5x0Os+O9t1NbT8xgkEz8N6k9cqZaiQKALw2zW=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKnt4U-Jv93bALCcpm_rNdfnch+wWMfs-kctkgc57gUzr2OX_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:41 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:35 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hello.
>>>>
>>>> I have an iptables question
>>>>
>>>> i have the following
>>>>
>>>> ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 ..
>>>> computer99
>>>>
>>>> i have no control over NAT1.
>>>> computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.
>>>>
>>>> linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
>>>> however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and
>>>> also reach computer1
>>>>
>>>> so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets
>>>> from internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1
>>>> $ext_ip up' on computer1.
>>>> this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
>>>> ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well
>>>>
>>>> so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but
>>>> will not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
>>>> howerver i do not know how to do that
>>>>
>>>>
>>> If computer1 can access ext_ip:7777, all you need is to allow ip_forward
>>> (/etc/sysctl.conf for permanent, and echo 1 >
>>> /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward) on computer1, and have all other computers
>>> have a static route to ext_ip via computer1
>>>
>>> Then, in computer1,
>>>
>>> iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -o <interface going towards ext_ip> [ -i
>>> <interface subnet of computers come from> ] -s <subnet of
>>> computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport 7777 -j MASQUERADE
>>>
>>> should do...
>>>
>>> (of course, assuming the iptables FORWARD chain is not dropping those
>>> packets; otherwise you'ld need an ACCEPT rule there, too...)
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> -- Shimi
>>>
>>>
>> And on a second read, I think I got you wrong and the purpose was to
>> access computer1 port 7777 (hopefully listening on 0.0.0.0) from computersN
>> by using the external IP from the inside?
>>
> yes
>
>>
>> couputerN default route is the linux firewall. without any rules on linux
> firewall, it will forward packets from computer1 destined to ext_ip  to
> NAT1. and they will not reach computer1 att all, so rules on computer 1 are
> useless.
>
>
> Doing a DNAT on linux firewall will direct the packets to computer1,
> however computer 1 will know comuterN and will reply directly without going
> through linux firewall, and computer1 will not match the packets to the
> original connection.
>

But if you create a static route on computerN towards the external IP via
computer1 like I suggested, then these connections will not get to linux
firewall at all, rather then get to computer1 (I'm assuming they're on the
same L2 and share IP addresses in the same IP subnet) - so rules on
computer1 will apply, wouldn't they?

What am I missing?

-- Shimi
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From hareldvd at gmail.com  Fri Jan  9 17:24:06 2015
From: hareldvd at gmail.com (David Harel)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 17:24:06 +0200
Subject: Audio streaming
Message-ID: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

I am trying to setup an audio "server" using a scrap android Teac Accord
714b tablet running android 4.1.1
I am looking for recommendation on server side app that can receive audio
streams on local WiFi home network from android phones used by our family.

Thanks
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Fri Jan  9 19:36:12 2015
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 19:36:12 +0200
Subject: Audio streaming
In-Reply-To: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy4znXfALQ-iWuAtCB9qFpxB=49sqOBMbkrMRtApRqXSFx9JA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David!

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 5:24 PM, David Harel <hareldvd at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I am trying to setup an audio "server" using a scrap android Teac Accord
> 714b tablet running android 4.1.1
> I am looking for recommendation on server side app that can receive audio
> streams on local WiFi home network from android phones used by our family.
>
Does the streaming service have to run on Android? If it can run on a
vanilla GNU/Linux system then see:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_streaming_media_systems

2.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25288221/linux-streaming-server-with-playlist

No first hand experience with any of them.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish



> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

Chuck Norris helps the gods that help themselves.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From amichai at iglu.org.il  Fri Jan  9 20:05:57 2015
From: amichai at iglu.org.il (Amichai Rotman)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 20:05:57 +0200
Subject: Audio streaming
In-Reply-To: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD_ZK67i6oSdTkafYx4MWU6CFJcYDAL+D9+v2KX9r-MYYtOYaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is this what you  are looking for?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.mediaserver

Amichai.

2015-01-09 17:24 GMT+02:00 David Harel <hareldvd at gmail.com>:

> Greetings,
>
> I am trying to setup an audio "server" using a scrap android Teac Accord
> 714b tablet running android 4.1.1
> I am looking for recommendation on server side app that can receive audio
> streams on local WiFi home network from android phones used by our family.
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From hareldvd at gmail.com  Sat Jan 10 00:38:50 2015
From: hareldvd at gmail.com (David Harel)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 00:38:50 +0200
Subject: Audio streaming
In-Reply-To: <CAD_ZK67i6oSdTkafYx4MWU6CFJcYDAL+D9+v2KX9r-MYYtOYaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_ZK67i6oSdTkafYx4MWU6CFJcYDAL+D9+v2KX9r-MYYtOYaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+E_=OZ-7yy5Hv_SV2EVLEioZ=bpFi0ysOOXTt0b6JF8yM9Fmw@mail.gmail.com>

Eventually I succeeded using yaacc  which I found on fdroid.
For client side I prefer the onkyo remote for now.

Thanks for the lead.
On Jan 9, 2015 8:06 PM, "Amichai Rotman" <amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:

> Is this what you  are looking for?
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.mediaserver
>
> Amichai.
>
> 2015-01-09 17:24 GMT+02:00 David Harel <hareldvd at gmail.com>:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I am trying to setup an audio "server" using a scrap android Teac Accord
>> 714b tablet running android 4.1.1
>> I am looking for recommendation on server side app that can receive audio
>> streams on local WiFi home network from android phones used by our family.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 11:59:44 2015
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 11:59:44 +0200
Subject: Audio streaming
In-Reply-To: <CA+E_=OZ-7yy5Hv_SV2EVLEioZ=bpFi0ysOOXTt0b6JF8yM9Fmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_ZK67i6oSdTkafYx4MWU6CFJcYDAL+D9+v2KX9r-MYYtOYaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+E_=OZ-7yy5Hv_SV2EVLEioZ=bpFi0ysOOXTt0b6JF8yM9Fmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3wnYnjntbP=F6AE-nGecwL+BNpQ+9fM1yGjAHZ_MaOxKiw@mail.gmail.com>

can you elaborate on what are you trying to do
do you want to stream from android to linux or vice versa or somthing else
whatsoever
(maybe we can enjoy your setup as well)

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 12:38 AM, David Harel <hareldvd at gmail.com> wrote:

> Eventually I succeeded using yaacc  which I found on fdroid.
> For client side I prefer the onkyo remote for now.
>
> Thanks for the lead.
> On Jan 9, 2015 8:06 PM, "Amichai Rotman" <amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:
>
>> Is this what you  are looking for?
>>
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.mediaserver
>>
>> Amichai.
>>
>> 2015-01-09 17:24 GMT+02:00 David Harel <hareldvd at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I am trying to setup an audio "server" using a scrap android Teac Accord
>>> 714b tablet running android 4.1.1
>>> I am looking for recommendation on server side app that can receive
>>> audio streams on local WiFi home network from android phones used by our
>>> family.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From hareldvd at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 23:40:23 2015
From: hareldvd at gmail.com (David Harel)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:40:23 +0200
Subject: Audio streaming
In-Reply-To: <CAMUp3wnYnjntbP=F6AE-nGecwL+BNpQ+9fM1yGjAHZ_MaOxKiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+E_=OYWmi-sJ0+=-jMevahSEHaQ7oQ+-csxRR9mvy==YqBbwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_ZK67i6oSdTkafYx4MWU6CFJcYDAL+D9+v2KX9r-MYYtOYaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+E_=OZ-7yy5Hv_SV2EVLEioZ=bpFi0ysOOXTt0b6JF8yM9Fmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMUp3wnYnjntbP=F6AE-nGecwL+BNpQ+9fM1yGjAHZ_MaOxKiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+E_=OaP-Bf9pE+L=-+xFN9r5g3MP8ghTnLa6OYk9TVVOyTFFw@mail.gmail.com>

I got this old tablet that it's audio output I hooked into a much older old
school stereo amplifier.
With this tablet we listen to Internet radio channels (where I live FM
reception is very poor) and sometimes music on YouTube.
The new concept is that we can play music from our smartphones using
dlna/upnp protocols.
It's a work in progress and I try to improve the settings and the tools we
use.
I just made another change on the tablet (for me its a server) from yaacc
upnp server to upnp monkey.
I am also testing client side apps and I found AirWire as a nice client.

Hope it makes sense.
On Jan 11, 2015 12:00 PM, "Erez D" <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> can you elaborate on what are you trying to do
> do you want to stream from android to linux or vice versa or somthing else
> whatsoever
> (maybe we can enjoy your setup as well)
>
> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 12:38 AM, David Harel <hareldvd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Eventually I succeeded using yaacc  which I found on fdroid.
>> For client side I prefer the onkyo remote for now.
>>
>> Thanks for the lead.
>> On Jan 9, 2015 8:06 PM, "Amichai Rotman" <amichai at iglu.org.il> wrote:
>>
>>> Is this what you  are looking for?
>>>
>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.mediaserver
>>>
>>> Amichai.
>>>
>>> 2015-01-09 17:24 GMT+02:00 David Harel <hareldvd at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to setup an audio "server" using a scrap android Teac
>>>> Accord 714b tablet running android 4.1.1
>>>> I am looking for recommendation on server side app that can receive
>>>> audio streams on local WiFi home network from android phones used by our
>>>> family.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon Jan 12 20:50:22 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 20:50:22 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
In-Reply-To: <CAKnt4U-Jv93bALCcpm_rNdfnch+wWMfs-kctkgc57gUzr2OX_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-LpX2n8T1R0Prj2pQQDdG-jpg5SL=z3SeAeFqFQKjv_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMUp3wmwn-U5x0Os+O9t1NbT8xgkEz8N6k9cqZaiQKALw2zW=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-Jv93bALCcpm_rNdfnch+wWMfs-kctkgc57gUzr2OX_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BNHAANYQXq8_x4xz3RcDG6HVQjWS9CzQsG=k2V4=krNMw@mail.gmail.com>

Alternatively you could also have a local dns/local hosts entries that
point computerN at computer_1 when they are looking up whatever hostname is
resolving to ext_ip....

If they are on the same LAN all normal (sane) security policy will cause
the drop of their packets when they are trying to reach ext_ip from inside
the network that has ext_ip and you need to bend over backwards to get them
accepted..

2015-01-08 23:02 GMT+02:00 shimi <linux-il at shimi.net>:

>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:41 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:35 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have an iptables question
>>>>>
>>>>> i have the following
>>>>>
>>>>> ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 ..
>>>>> computer99
>>>>>
>>>>> i have no control over NAT1.
>>>>> computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.
>>>>>
>>>>> linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
>>>>> however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and
>>>>> also reach computer1
>>>>>
>>>>> so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets
>>>>> from internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1
>>>>> $ext_ip up' on computer1.
>>>>> this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
>>>>> ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well
>>>>>
>>>>> so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but
>>>>> will not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
>>>>> howerver i do not know how to do that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If computer1 can access ext_ip:7777, all you need is to allow
>>>> ip_forward (/etc/sysctl.conf for permanent, and echo 1 >
>>>> /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward) on computer1, and have all other computers
>>>> have a static route to ext_ip via computer1
>>>>
>>>> Then, in computer1,
>>>>
>>>> iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -o <interface going towards ext_ip> [ -i
>>>> <interface subnet of computers come from> ] -s <subnet of
>>>> computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport 7777 -j MASQUERADE
>>>>
>>>> should do...
>>>>
>>>> (of course, assuming the iptables FORWARD chain is not dropping those
>>>> packets; otherwise you'ld need an ACCEPT rule there, too...)
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> -- Shimi
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And on a second read, I think I got you wrong and the purpose was to
>>> access computer1 port 7777 (hopefully listening on 0.0.0.0) from computersN
>>> by using the external IP from the inside?
>>>
>> yes
>>
>>>
>>> couputerN default route is the linux firewall. without any rules on
>> linux firewall, it will forward packets from computer1 destined to ext_ip
>> to NAT1. and they will not reach computer1 att all, so rules on computer 1
>> are useless.
>>
>>
>> Doing a DNAT on linux firewall will direct the packets to computer1,
>> however computer 1 will know comuterN and will reply directly without going
>> through linux firewall, and computer1 will not match the packets to the
>> original connection.
>>
>
> But if you create a static route on computerN towards the external IP via
> computer1 like I suggested, then these connections will not get to linux
> firewall at all, rather then get to computer1 (I'm assuming they're on the
> same L2 and share IP addresses in the same IP subnet) - so rules on
> computer1 will apply, wouldn't they?
>
> What am I missing?
>
> -- Shimi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon Jan 12 20:57:13 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 20:57:13 +0200
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private stuff
a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly 'light'
stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home + noip/dyndns
or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then enough....

2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:

> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>
> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want to
> (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>
> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>
>> Amos,
>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as far as
>> you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can launch
>> instance automatically.
>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>> technical solution exist.
>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer for
>> free?
>>
>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
>> up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>
>> regards,
>> Vitaly
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for high-load
>>> (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared to
>>> something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
>>> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
>>> what's paid is paid).
>>>
>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But we
>>>> do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>
>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Aviram
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need them?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence
>>>>> (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for
>>>>> each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
>>>>> more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
>>>>> hours a month if not less.
>>>>>
>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or
>>>>> using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>
>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Mon Jan 12 21:08:58 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 21:08:58 +0200
Subject: Linux on Android related question
In-Reply-To: <1593056.7KM8odgHhf@pinky>
References: <CA+E_=Ob2xcByyHY57AEVfLT=e34Cy7aeZ+xD6XRdNKac11T7xg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1593056.7KM8odgHhf@pinky>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BP5UjpG_JfZ==G81frvCa9p56n18B=1dcPqyRdazLzm+w@mail.gmail.com>

2014-12-26 16:29 GMT+02:00 Diego Iastrubni <elcuco at kde.org>:

> Hi David,
>
> On ??? ????, 26 ?????? 2014 15:54:12 David Harel wrote:
> > My son purchased an Android phone in China (against my recommendation).
> > It's a phone by Coolpad the module is 7620l
> You should have a talk to your son ;-)
>
> > Apparently the Android installation for Chinese is different than what we
> > are used to get in "Western countries". No Google account, no Google play
> > store and it seems that all network activities went through China (for
> > inspection?, really slow on network activity).
> Actually... not. GApps is not officially part of AOSP (which in my book is
> the
> definition of "android"... but the world is moving and my definition is
> becoming
> less correct as the name of Android advances in the english alphabet).
>
> Nokia/MS did the same. Jolla are going this as well. The Android emulators
> usually do this as well.
>
What do you mean by "doing this as well"? Not shipping GApps with their
android emulation? GApps is not OSS and the license sets very strict
standards that devices need to meet to be allowed to ship with GApps...

I'm happy my Jolla has none of them, yes it's sometimes annoying when I
want to get a free app from google play but I can ask friends/websites to
download the apk for me or install an alternative store I trust like Amazon
etc.
Regards,
Eliyahu - ?????

>
> > It took me a while to find English Rom for it and then some time to root
> it
> > (temporarily - will explain later).
> > Now I got Google account and other "Western" stuff but still:
> > 1. Root is removed after reboot
> > 2. Google play services crashes and so does the address book sync
> operation.
> >
> > Looking at the article: http://elinux.org/Android_Booting
> > my questions:
> > 1. Any idea where I can find strace for Android (based on Arm CPU)
> Just compile it statically with your favorite ARM toolchain. Then push it
> into
> /data/local/tmp (adb push strace-static-ftw /data/local/tmp; adb shell
> chmod
> 777 /data/local/tmp/strace-static-ftw)
>
> BTW: in this page http://elinux.org/Android_Tools which point here for
> instructions on building:
>
> http://discuz-android.blogspot.co.il/2008/01/create-google-android-strace-tool.html
>
> and here for downloads:
> http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/18/android-runtime-strace
> http://benno.id.au/android/strace
>
> I still recommend compiling your own.
>
> > 2. Can I go into "Console mode" ? In case I fiddle with init*.rc scripts
> > and break the OS (for manual recovery of those scripts).
> You need a serial console for this, good luck with that.
> The "console" you get when you run over adb is running using a limited
> account... but it might be the way for you to "root" the device.
>
> Just for reference, here is how to get a serial console on nexus5:
>
> http://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/Lorris/2013/12/serial-console-on-google-nexus-5
>
> And this is on Galaxy S4:
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1901376
>
> Not trivial!
>
> > 3. The su command (and copies of it that had SUID bit set on it) were
> > deleted during boot. Any idea what could have done that?
> Do you put it on "/bin" or "/sbin"? Those directories are not mapped to a
> real
> device, but are part of the initrd. On reboot they are restored. Not a good
> place to save stuff.
>
> I wrote about something similar (Hebrew) a few days/weeks ago. Have a good
> reading: http://cucomania.mooo.com/he/posts/349
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From danshimsh at gmail.com  Mon Jan 12 21:14:16 2015
From: danshimsh at gmail.com (Dan Shimshoni)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 21:14:16 +0200
Subject: Question about Linux installation and selecting a language
In-Reply-To: <87zj9xf32s.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <CACuRQ2+qM3rZJiLJs01KaxJqmJP2rv-xN=kbkVkXF=qAP5PjBA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87zj9xf32s.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <CACuRQ2Kj25H7VZ0_PTBewn8ak_vq6kEhHJW3MzWR93POfvOjRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks , Oleg


> use a somewhat older Fedora, so YMMV, but in KDE open System Settings
>-> Input Devices -> Keyboard Settings -> Layouts and select what suits
>you (I assume American + Israeli?).

There is no "American English" there! Since the installation was with
British English! what should I do so that "American English" will be
available there ?
regards,
Dan





On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:

> Dan Shimshoni <danshimsh at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I had installed Fedora 21 on x86_64 (server, and with kde). When
> > installation started, I selected the language as "british english" and
> > not "American English".
>
> I am guessing the installation chose a British keyboard for you. This is
> a bit surprising because Red Hat, unlike some other distros (we'll
> protect the guilty) usually ask a separate queston about keyboard
> layout.
>
>
> > Now when I log in and press some keys, I get unwanted results.
> > For example, when pressing @ I get the " character.
>
> [snip]
>
> > Any ideas how this problem can be resolved ?
>
> I use a somewhat older Fedora, so YMMV, but in KDE open System Settings
> -> Input Devices -> Keyboard Settings -> Layouts and select what suits
> you (I assume American + Israeli?).
>
> --
> Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org
>
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From ezaton at tournament.org.il  Mon Jan 12 23:06:03 2015
From: ezaton at tournament.org.il (Etzion Bar-Noy)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 23:06:03 +0200
Subject: Question about Linux installation and selecting a language
In-Reply-To: <CACuRQ2Kj25H7VZ0_PTBewn8ak_vq6kEhHJW3MzWR93POfvOjRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACuRQ2+qM3rZJiLJs01KaxJqmJP2rv-xN=kbkVkXF=qAP5PjBA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87zj9xf32s.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CACuRQ2Kj25H7VZ0_PTBewn8ak_vq6kEhHJW3MzWR93POfvOjRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vBjEds0v=xj_1VGYrvvbogN83TnwmwK0A=swJmQyHnQX=6BA@mail.gmail.com>

US International.

Etzion

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Dan Shimshoni <danshimsh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks , Oleg
>
>
> > use a somewhat older Fedora, so YMMV, but in KDE open System Settings
> >-> Input Devices -> Keyboard Settings -> Layouts and select what suits
> >you (I assume American + Israeli?).
>
> There is no "American English" there! Since the installation was with
> British English! what should I do so that "American English" will be
> available there ?
> regards,
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Dan Shimshoni <danshimsh at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > I had installed Fedora 21 on x86_64 (server, and with kde). When
>> > installation started, I selected the language as "british english" and
>> > not "American English".
>>
>> I am guessing the installation chose a British keyboard for you. This is
>> a bit surprising because Red Hat, unlike some other distros (we'll
>> protect the guilty) usually ask a separate queston about keyboard
>> layout.
>>
>>
>> > Now when I log in and press some keys, I get unwanted results.
>> > For example, when pressing @ I get the " character.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > Any ideas how this problem can be resolved ?
>>
>> I use a somewhat older Fedora, so YMMV, but in KDE open System Settings
>> -> Input Devices -> Keyboard Settings -> Layouts and select what suits
>> you (I assume American + Israeli?).
>>
>> --
>> Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From ezaton at tournament.org.il  Mon Jan 12 23:11:25 2015
From: ezaton at tournament.org.il (Etzion Bar-Noy)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 23:11:25 +0200
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>

Except that NUC costs about 700+ ILS (I have three. I know. This is the
Celeron version).
Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be very very light, and it can
startup in about 15 seconds or so, it is acceptable to have it on-demand.
You can wrap it in a script (using AWS API and tools) to just start it up.
Since it will be about 15 seconds boot/startup time, you will find that
very economical, and very simple to achieve. In any case, considering your
requirements, this does seem to be the most simple and easy solution. Note
that your IP *will* change each time you start your instance, so your API
interface should also tell you what's the IP address of the machine (or you
could use some no-dns service, but it will probably be slower).

Etzion

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:57 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il>
wrote:

> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private
> stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly
> 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home +
> noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then
> enough....
>
> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>
>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>>
>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want to
>> (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>
>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Amos,
>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as far
>>> as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can launch
>>> instance automatically.
>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>>> technical solution exist.
>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer
>>> for free?
>>>
>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
>>> up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Vitaly
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
>>>> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
>>>> what's paid is paid).
>>>>
>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But
>>>>> we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need
>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence
>>>>>> (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for
>>>>>> each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
>>>>>> more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
>>>>>> hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or
>>>>>> using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Tue Jan 13 00:27:37 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 00:27:37 +0200
Subject: Question about Linux installation and selecting a language
In-Reply-To: <CACuRQ2Kj25H7VZ0_PTBewn8ak_vq6kEhHJW3MzWR93POfvOjRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACuRQ2+qM3rZJiLJs01KaxJqmJP2rv-xN=kbkVkXF=qAP5PjBA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87zj9xf32s.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <CACuRQ2Kj25H7VZ0_PTBewn8ak_vq6kEhHJW3MzWR93POfvOjRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8761cbfxd2.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Dan Shimshoni <danshimsh at gmail.com> writes:

> There is no "American English" there! Since the installation was with?
> British English! what should I do so that "American English" will be
> available there ??

Are you saying you have an English (UK)[*] layout but no English (US)
layout - when you click on the "Add" button and look at the drop-down
layout menu? I'd regard it as seriously weird...

Is "Configure layouts" box checked in the "System Settings" interface?

What happens if you run system-config-keyboard from a terminal?

Sanity checks: "rpm -qi kbd", "rpm -qi xkeyboard-config", "rpm -qi
system-config-keyboard"?

[*] Sometimes it is UK, sometimes it is GB...

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 12:20:58 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 21:20:58 +1100
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WUmX9BiZuG94BgJUvModOe-psk-tUcZMpsMOZZ55A4aSA@mail.gmail.com>

I own a Solid-Run Cubox-i4Pro with a couple of GB of RAM and 4 ARMv7 cores
and run OpenELEC on it. I don't think that running Jira + Confluence (each
requiring its own JVM) is practical on this hardware, in parallel to the
other things I use it for.

On 13 January 2015 at 05:57, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il>
wrote:

> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private
> stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly
> 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home +
> noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then
> enough....
>
> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>
>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>>
>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want to
>> (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>
>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Amos,
>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as far
>>> as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can launch
>>> instance automatically.
>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>>> technical solution exist.
>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer
>>> for free?
>>>
>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
>>> up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Vitaly
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
>>>> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
>>>> what's paid is paid).
>>>>
>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But
>>>>> we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need
>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10 Confluence
>>>>>> (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off $10 for
>>>>>> each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and perhaps
>>>>>> more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a few
>>>>>> hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or
>>>>>> using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>


-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 12:28:51 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 21:28:51 +1100
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WWy2DPSL4meKiQRsHRntCzWcehdRTDnWtyJSRaW2nzb5g@mail.gmail.com>

Etzion, just a question: "Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be
very very light," - what do you mean by that?

Your description is close to what I have in mind.

As for the changing IP address - this can be easily overcome using Elastic
IP and/or no-ip.com and friends.

Thanks,

--Amos

On 13 January 2015 at 08:11, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
wrote:

> Except that NUC costs about 700+ ILS (I have three. I know. This is the
> Celeron version).
> Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be very very light, and it
> can startup in about 15 seconds or so, it is acceptable to have it
> on-demand. You can wrap it in a script (using AWS API and tools) to just
> start it up. Since it will be about 15 seconds boot/startup time, you will
> find that very economical, and very simple to achieve. In any case,
> considering your requirements, this does seem to be the most simple and
> easy solution. Note that your IP *will* change each time you start your
> instance, so your API interface should also tell you what's the IP address
> of the machine (or you could use some no-dns service, but it will probably
> be slower).
>
> Etzion
>
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:57 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private
>> stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly
>> 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home +
>> noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then
>> enough....
>>
>> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>>>
>>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want to
>>> (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>>
>>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amos,
>>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as far
>>>> as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can launch
>>>> instance automatically.
>>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>>>> technical solution exist.
>>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer
>>>> for free?
>>>>
>>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
>>>> up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Vitaly
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
>>>>> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
>>>>> what's paid is paid).
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But
>>>>>> we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need
>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10
>>>>>>> Confluence (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off
>>>>>>> $10 for each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and
>>>>>>> perhaps more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a
>>>>>>> few hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or
>>>>>>> using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>


-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From ezaton at tournament.org.il  Thu Jan 15 00:38:38 2015
From: ezaton at tournament.org.il (Etzion Bar-Noy)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 00:38:38 +0200
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WWy2DPSL4meKiQRsHRntCzWcehdRTDnWtyJSRaW2nzb5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWy2DPSL4meKiQRsHRntCzWcehdRTDnWtyJSRaW2nzb5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vBjEdPx+_DN8S8O3eHKZ3Kor0rhq4OJouRs_7JTK=wNJQC9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amos.
It means you make use of an instance which is very quick to load. Removing
non-esential services, or postponing them to after Jira starts, using a
lightweight system, etc. If you can remove boot-time hogs, you can reach a
fast-booting system. A script using Amazon API will prepare it for you.
I wouldn't use the elastic IP because of its price (I get the feeling you
seek something cheap). no-ip.com or other no-dns services could do the
trick, except that the VM in Amazon network is unaware of its external IP
(you might be able to query that using the API, BTW), and that it might
take a few minutes (one, maybe more) before you could connect to the
machine, because their update might no be immediate.
Other than that - seems fine.

Etzion

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Etzion, just a question: "Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be
> very very light," - what do you mean by that?
>
> Your description is close to what I have in mind.
>
> As for the changing IP address - this can be easily overcome using Elastic
> IP and/or no-ip.com and friends.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Amos
>
> On 13 January 2015 at 08:11, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
> wrote:
>
>> Except that NUC costs about 700+ ILS (I have three. I know. This is the
>> Celeron version).
>> Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be very very light, and it
>> can startup in about 15 seconds or so, it is acceptable to have it
>> on-demand. You can wrap it in a script (using AWS API and tools) to just
>> start it up. Since it will be about 15 seconds boot/startup time, you will
>> find that very economical, and very simple to achieve. In any case,
>> considering your requirements, this does seem to be the most simple and
>> easy solution. Note that your IP *will* change each time you start your
>> instance, so your API interface should also tell you what's the IP address
>> of the machine (or you could use some no-dns service, but it will probably
>> be slower).
>>
>> Etzion
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:57 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private
>>> stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly
>>> 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home +
>>> noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then
>>> enough....
>>>
>>> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>>>>
>>>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want
>>>> to (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>>>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>>>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>>>
>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Amos,
>>>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as far
>>>>> as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can launch
>>>>> instance automatically.
>>>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>>>>> technical solution exist.
>>>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer
>>>>> for free?
>>>>>
>>>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
>>>>> up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> Vitaly
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
>>>>>> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
>>>>>> what's paid is paid).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are. But
>>>>>>> we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need
>>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10
>>>>>>>> Confluence (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off
>>>>>>>> $10 for each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and
>>>>>>>> perhaps more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a
>>>>>>>> few hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli, or
>>>>>>>> using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>
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From geoff at QuiteLikely.com  Thu Jan 15 01:12:53 2015
From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:12:53 +0200 (IST)
Subject: OT: Invoice sites in English
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1501150112300.3168@voldemort.home>

Hi,

Please forgive the offtopic post, but I figure someone here would know.

I was recently told by my new accountant that I need to provide invoices ina 
form the Israeli government will approve, and not as text files as I've been 
doing so far (hey I'm a traditionalist).

They pointed me to iCount.co.il and greenInvoice.co.il.  Unfortunately both of 
these sites are in Hebrew, and while GreenInvoice at least will allow me to 
produce invoices in English, the UI isn't and my Hebrew isn't good enough to 
use it.

So I wondered if anyone else knew of somewhere that fits the Israeli 
government's requirements whilst having an English UI.

Please feel free to reply off-list.

Cheers,
Geoff.



From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 02:33:08 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:33:08 +1100
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CA+vBjEdPx+_DN8S8O3eHKZ3Kor0rhq4OJouRs_7JTK=wNJQC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWy2DPSL4meKiQRsHRntCzWcehdRTDnWtyJSRaW2nzb5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEdPx+_DN8S8O3eHKZ3Kor0rhq4OJouRs_7JTK=wNJQC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WW8JfiuybrUODEb7EtWokyYQ3gFqybRVsvg0+fdXrZTTA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Etzion.

Yes you are on the same track as me.

An unmapped Elastic IP will cost $3.65/month, which is a significant amount
in comparison to the numbers I'm looking at skimming, so you are probably
right about using a no-ip address.

Finding the instance IP is a matter of a trivial "curl" call to the right
URL, and no-ip can just use the current update requests source address
automatically anyway.

The next step would be to automatically identify idleness of the
application for automatic shut down.

Would people in the audience here see themselves using such a service (to
fire up your server) if it was offered?

--Amos


On 15 January 2015 at 09:38, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
wrote:

> Hi Amos.
> It means you make use of an instance which is very quick to load. Removing
> non-esential services, or postponing them to after Jira starts, using a
> lightweight system, etc. If you can remove boot-time hogs, you can reach a
> fast-booting system. A script using Amazon API will prepare it for you.
> I wouldn't use the elastic IP because of its price (I get the feeling you
> seek something cheap). no-ip.com or other no-dns services could do the
> trick, except that the VM in Amazon network is unaware of its external IP
> (you might be able to query that using the API, BTW), and that it might
> take a few minutes (one, maybe more) before you could connect to the
> machine, because their update might no be immediate.
> Other than that - seems fine.
>
> Etzion
>
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Etzion, just a question: "Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to
>> be very very light," - what do you mean by that?
>>
>> Your description is close to what I have in mind.
>>
>> As for the changing IP address - this can be easily overcome using
>> Elastic IP and/or no-ip.com and friends.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --Amos
>>
>> On 13 January 2015 at 08:11, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Except that NUC costs about 700+ ILS (I have three. I know. This is the
>>> Celeron version).
>>> Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be very very light, and it
>>> can startup in about 15 seconds or so, it is acceptable to have it
>>> on-demand. You can wrap it in a script (using AWS API and tools) to just
>>> start it up. Since it will be about 15 seconds boot/startup time, you will
>>> find that very economical, and very simple to achieve. In any case,
>>> considering your requirements, this does seem to be the most simple and
>>> easy solution. Note that your IP *will* change each time you start your
>>> instance, so your API interface should also tell you what's the IP address
>>> of the machine (or you could use some no-dns service, but it will probably
>>> be slower).
>>>
>>> Etzion
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:57 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <
>>> esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private
>>>> stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly
>>>> 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home +
>>>> noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then
>>>> enough....
>>>>
>>>> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>>>>>
>>>>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want
>>>>> to (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>>>>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>>>>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Amos,
>>>>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as
>>>>>> far as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can
>>>>>> launch instance automatically.
>>>>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>>>>>> technical solution exist.
>>>>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own computer
>>>>>> for free?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything; plus
>>>>>> up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Vitaly
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type of
>>>>>>> instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI slot,
>>>>>>> what's paid is paid).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are.
>>>>>>>> But we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>>>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <
>>>>>>>> amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need
>>>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10
>>>>>>>>> Confluence (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off
>>>>>>>>> $10 for each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and
>>>>>>>>> perhaps more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a
>>>>>>>>> few hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli,
>>>>>>>>> or using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>
>
>


-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From ladypine at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 08:11:27 2015
From: ladypine at gmail.com (Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 08:11:27 +0200
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAF9n_WW8JfiuybrUODEb7EtWokyYQ3gFqybRVsvg0+fdXrZTTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWy2DPSL4meKiQRsHRntCzWcehdRTDnWtyJSRaW2nzb5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEdPx+_DN8S8O3eHKZ3Kor0rhq4OJouRs_7JTK=wNJQC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WW8JfiuybrUODEb7EtWokyYQ3gFqybRVsvg0+fdXrZTTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA8-RXh5eWYFtfjf2YKqcPtNHdTqrr3Civui6orB-xLpLsL+BA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amos, Etzion,

You are talking about 15 seconds for bringing up the machine, and about
shutting down the machine according to idleness detection. Last time I
checked (and maybe I am not up-to-date),
1. It took about two minutes to bring up the machine.
2. Amazon charged per full hour. That is, if you use the instance for 20
minutes, shut it down and then bring it up for 20 minutes, you pay for two
hours. So it might be beneficial to wait a bit, at least until the end of a
full hour.

Orna

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:33 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Etzion.
>
> Yes you are on the same track as me.
>
> An unmapped Elastic IP will cost $3.65/month, which is a significant
> amount in comparison to the numbers I'm looking at skimming, so you are
> probably right about using a no-ip address.
>
> Finding the instance IP is a matter of a trivial "curl" call to the right
> URL, and no-ip can just use the current update requests source address
> automatically anyway.
>
> The next step would be to automatically identify idleness of the
> application for automatic shut down.
>
> Would people in the audience here see themselves using such a service (to
> fire up your server) if it was offered?
>
> --Amos
>
>
> On 15 January 2015 at 09:38, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Amos.
>> It means you make use of an instance which is very quick to load.
>> Removing non-esential services, or postponing them to after Jira starts,
>> using a lightweight system, etc. If you can remove boot-time hogs, you can
>> reach a fast-booting system. A script using Amazon API will prepare it for
>> you.
>> I wouldn't use the elastic IP because of its price (I get the feeling you
>> seek something cheap). no-ip.com or other no-dns services could do the
>> trick, except that the VM in Amazon network is unaware of its external IP
>> (you might be able to query that using the API, BTW), and that it might
>> take a few minutes (one, maybe more) before you could connect to the
>> machine, because their update might no be immediate.
>> Other than that - seems fine.
>>
>> Etzion
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Etzion, just a question: "Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to
>>> be very very light," - what do you mean by that?
>>>
>>> Your description is close to what I have in mind.
>>>
>>> As for the changing IP address - this can be easily overcome using
>>> Elastic IP and/or no-ip.com and friends.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --Amos
>>>
>>> On 13 January 2015 at 08:11, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Except that NUC costs about 700+ ILS (I have three. I know. This is the
>>>> Celeron version).
>>>> Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be very very light, and it
>>>> can startup in about 15 seconds or so, it is acceptable to have it
>>>> on-demand. You can wrap it in a script (using AWS API and tools) to just
>>>> start it up. Since it will be about 15 seconds boot/startup time, you will
>>>> find that very economical, and very simple to achieve. In any case,
>>>> considering your requirements, this does seem to be the most simple and
>>>> easy solution. Note that your IP *will* change each time you start
>>>> your instance, so your API interface should also tell you what's the IP
>>>> address of the machine (or you could use some no-dns service, but it will
>>>> probably be slower).
>>>>
>>>> Etzion
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:57 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <
>>>> esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private
>>>>> stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly
>>>>> 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home +
>>>>> noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then
>>>>> enough....
>>>>>
>>>>> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't want
>>>>>> to (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>>>>>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>>>>>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Amos,
>>>>>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as
>>>>>>> far as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can
>>>>>>> launch instance automatically.
>>>>>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>>>>>>> technical solution exist.
>>>>>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own
>>>>>>> computer for free?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything;
>>>>>>> plus up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>> Vitaly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>>>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>>>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>>>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type
>>>>>>>> of instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI
>>>>>>>> slot, what's paid is paid).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are.
>>>>>>>>> But we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>>>>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <
>>>>>>>>> amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you need
>>>>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10
>>>>>>>>>> Confluence (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off
>>>>>>>>>> $10 for each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and
>>>>>>>>>> perhaps more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a
>>>>>>>>>> few hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli,
>>>>>>>>>> or using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>>>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
http://ladypine.org
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From tewner at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 10:26:07 2015
From: tewner at gmail.com (Michael Tewner)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:26:07 +0200
Subject: OT: Invoice sites in English
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1501150112300.3168@voldemort.home>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1501150112300.3168@voldemort.home>
Message-ID: <CAPxava_Ma3RnH=DOhfW09yKKCif=1VnJw2uUHEwrRF5pNFLxFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Does this do what you want? I know a few people on the team there:
https://www.invoiceninja.com/about

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:12 AM, Geoff Shang <geoff at quitelikely.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Please forgive the offtopic post, but I figure someone here would know.
>
> I was recently told by my new accountant that I need to provide invoices
> ina form the Israeli government will approve, and not as text files as I've
> been doing so far (hey I'm a traditionalist).
>
> They pointed me to iCount.co.il and greenInvoice.co.il.  Unfortunately
> both of these sites are in Hebrew, and while GreenInvoice at least will
> allow me to produce invoices in English, the UI isn't and my Hebrew isn't
> good enough to use it.
>
> So I wondered if anyone else knew of somewhere that fits the Israeli
> government's requirements whilst having an English UI.
>
> Please feel free to reply off-list.
>
> Cheers,
> Geoff.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From ezaton at tournament.org.il  Thu Jan 15 12:17:29 2015
From: ezaton at tournament.org.il (Etzion Bar-Noy)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:17:29 +0200
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CAA8-RXh5eWYFtfjf2YKqcPtNHdTqrr3Civui6orB-xLpLsL+BA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWy2DPSL4meKiQRsHRntCzWcehdRTDnWtyJSRaW2nzb5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEdPx+_DN8S8O3eHKZ3Kor0rhq4OJouRs_7JTK=wNJQC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WW8JfiuybrUODEb7EtWokyYQ3gFqybRVsvg0+fdXrZTTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA8-RXh5eWYFtfjf2YKqcPtNHdTqrr3Civui6orB-xLpLsL+BA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vBjEe4aOOnc40sJdyms_Z5+BORxmFcFKFxH-1ZeoAfxX5qfA@mail.gmail.com>

I believe that the time required for system start depends on the list of
services. It could be shorted than two minutes, or longer. Depends.

I used a condition - 'if' he can trim the image to startup in about 15
seconds, it becomes feasible.

Etzion

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Amos, Etzion,
>
> You are talking about 15 seconds for bringing up the machine, and about
> shutting down the machine according to idleness detection. Last time I
> checked (and maybe I am not up-to-date),
> 1. It took about two minutes to bring up the machine.
> 2. Amazon charged per full hour. That is, if you use the instance for 20
> minutes, shut it down and then bring it up for 20 minutes, you pay for two
> hours. So it might be beneficial to wait a bit, at least until the end of a
> full hour.
>
> Orna
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:33 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Etzion.
>>
>> Yes you are on the same track as me.
>>
>> An unmapped Elastic IP will cost $3.65/month, which is a significant
>> amount in comparison to the numbers I'm looking at skimming, so you are
>> probably right about using a no-ip address.
>>
>> Finding the instance IP is a matter of a trivial "curl" call to the right
>> URL, and no-ip can just use the current update requests source address
>> automatically anyway.
>>
>> The next step would be to automatically identify idleness of the
>> application for automatic shut down.
>>
>> Would people in the audience here see themselves using such a service (to
>> fire up your server) if it was offered?
>>
>> --Amos
>>
>>
>> On 15 January 2015 at 09:38, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Amos.
>>> It means you make use of an instance which is very quick to load.
>>> Removing non-esential services, or postponing them to after Jira starts,
>>> using a lightweight system, etc. If you can remove boot-time hogs, you can
>>> reach a fast-booting system. A script using Amazon API will prepare it for
>>> you.
>>> I wouldn't use the elastic IP because of its price (I get the feeling
>>> you seek something cheap). no-ip.com or other no-dns services could do
>>> the trick, except that the VM in Amazon network is unaware of its external
>>> IP (you might be able to query that using the API, BTW), and that it might
>>> take a few minutes (one, maybe more) before you could connect to the
>>> machine, because their update might no be immediate.
>>> Other than that - seems fine.
>>>
>>> Etzion
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Etzion, just a question: "Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to
>>>> be very very light," - what do you mean by that?
>>>>
>>>> Your description is close to what I have in mind.
>>>>
>>>> As for the changing IP address - this can be easily overcome using
>>>> Elastic IP and/or no-ip.com and friends.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --Amos
>>>>
>>>> On 13 January 2015 at 08:11, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Except that NUC costs about 700+ ILS (I have three. I know. This is
>>>>> the Celeron version).
>>>>> Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be very very light, and
>>>>> it can startup in about 15 seconds or so, it is acceptable to have it
>>>>> on-demand. You can wrap it in a script (using AWS API and tools) to just
>>>>> start it up. Since it will be about 15 seconds boot/startup time, you will
>>>>> find that very economical, and very simple to achieve. In any case,
>>>>> considering your requirements, this does seem to be the most simple and
>>>>> easy solution. Note that your IP *will* change each time you start
>>>>> your instance, so your API interface should also tell you what's the IP
>>>>> address of the machine (or you could use some no-dns service, but it will
>>>>> probably be slower).
>>>>>
>>>>> Etzion
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:57 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <
>>>>> esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load private
>>>>>> stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still fairly
>>>>>> 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at home +
>>>>>> noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be more then
>>>>>> enough....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't
>>>>>>> want to (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>>>>>>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>>>>>>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Amos,
>>>>>>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as
>>>>>>>> far as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can
>>>>>>>> launch instance automatically.
>>>>>>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there is
>>>>>>>> technical solution exist.
>>>>>>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own
>>>>>>>> computer for free?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything;
>>>>>>>> plus up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>> Vitaly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <
>>>>>>>> amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>>>>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>>>>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>>>>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type
>>>>>>>>> of instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI
>>>>>>>>> slot, what's paid is paid).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are.
>>>>>>>>>> But we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop on
>>>>>>>>>> demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>>>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>>>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>>>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>>>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>>>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>>>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>>>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>>>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <
>>>>>>>>>> amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you
>>>>>>>>>>> need them?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10
>>>>>>>>>>> Confluence (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off
>>>>>>>>>>> $10 for each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and
>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a
>>>>>>>>>>> few hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws cli,
>>>>>>>>>>> or using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also would be
>>>>>>>>>>> inconvenient.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
> http://ladypine.org
>
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From amos.shapira at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 12:43:37 2015
From: amos.shapira at gmail.com (Amos Shapira)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:43:37 +1100
Subject: Skimping on AWS EC2 bills
In-Reply-To: <CA+vBjEe4aOOnc40sJdyms_Z5+BORxmFcFKFxH-1ZeoAfxX5qfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF9n_WVaCnH6nE00HNTPK2-kJWP-5dJM=P84uvrDYK9GZDzhDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABtmDM-87BXJSGoew98_XfVtKsG9qu2e=qgPRnswruZSgWj-bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WXJuUF2ueqST+K8+cmy8vRd1yB0KQNtn6nf9JNTiFJFjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpTS02RMZwtWowxOWrVZhu2DWSuNf9vC1voCs84+cU9a9XKSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WX+h-yXXq3OcxWonVNj2nJ7HSamxrGE4hrcHib6QkxDbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BMEaKr+R9FQsLxoDattiPZFuicZnqc8CcCLDgefXBYsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEeAAapHvkR4HQ1BuuDhU4TDUqUearUTcShoEDjdaUgiTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WWy2DPSL4meKiQRsHRntCzWcehdRTDnWtyJSRaW2nzb5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEdPx+_DN8S8O3eHKZ3Kor0rhq4OJouRs_7JTK=wNJQC9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF9n_WW8JfiuybrUODEb7EtWokyYQ3gFqybRVsvg0+fdXrZTTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA8-RXh5eWYFtfjf2YKqcPtNHdTqrr3Civui6orB-xLpLsL+BA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+vBjEe4aOOnc40sJdyms_Z5+BORxmFcFKFxH-1ZeoAfxX5qfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF9n_WUirFdAU-Kd0A+Xv1LRPj9u4dAwNT_GHkBhJy9UQG_GQg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks both of you for your input.
Yes I'm aware of the caveats (luckily I get to play with AWS, and AWS
automation, all day in my current job :) ).

Cheers,

--Amos

On 15 January 2015 at 21:17, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
wrote:

> I believe that the time required for system start depends on the list of
> services. It could be shorted than two minutes, or longer. Depends.
>
> I used a condition - 'if' he can trim the image to startup in about 15
> seconds, it becomes feasible.
>
> Etzion
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Amos, Etzion,
>>
>> You are talking about 15 seconds for bringing up the machine, and about
>> shutting down the machine according to idleness detection. Last time I
>> checked (and maybe I am not up-to-date),
>> 1. It took about two minutes to bring up the machine.
>> 2. Amazon charged per full hour. That is, if you use the instance for 20
>> minutes, shut it down and then bring it up for 20 minutes, you pay for two
>> hours. So it might be beneficial to wait a bit, at least until the end of a
>> full hour.
>>
>> Orna
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:33 AM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Etzion.
>>>
>>> Yes you are on the same track as me.
>>>
>>> An unmapped Elastic IP will cost $3.65/month, which is a significant
>>> amount in comparison to the numbers I'm looking at skimming, so you are
>>> probably right about using a no-ip address.
>>>
>>> Finding the instance IP is a matter of a trivial "curl" call to the
>>> right URL, and no-ip can just use the current update requests source
>>> address automatically anyway.
>>>
>>> The next step would be to automatically identify idleness of the
>>> application for automatic shut down.
>>>
>>> Would people in the audience here see themselves using such a service
>>> (to fire up your server) if it was offered?
>>>
>>> --Amos
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 January 2015 at 09:38, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Amos.
>>>> It means you make use of an instance which is very quick to load.
>>>> Removing non-esential services, or postponing them to after Jira starts,
>>>> using a lightweight system, etc. If you can remove boot-time hogs, you can
>>>> reach a fast-booting system. A script using Amazon API will prepare it for
>>>> you.
>>>> I wouldn't use the elastic IP because of its price (I get the feeling
>>>> you seek something cheap). no-ip.com or other no-dns services could do
>>>> the trick, except that the VM in Amazon network is unaware of its external
>>>> IP (you might be able to query that using the API, BTW), and that it might
>>>> take a few minutes (one, maybe more) before you could connect to the
>>>> machine, because their update might no be immediate.
>>>> Other than that - seems fine.
>>>>
>>>> Etzion
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Etzion, just a question: "Amos 0 if you can customise your instance
>>>>> to be very very light," - what do you mean by that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Your description is close to what I have in mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the changing IP address - this can be easily overcome using
>>>>> Elastic IP and/or no-ip.com and friends.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13 January 2015 at 08:11, Etzion Bar-Noy <ezaton at tournament.org.il>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Except that NUC costs about 700+ ILS (I have three. I know. This is
>>>>>> the Celeron version).
>>>>>> Amos 0 if you can customise your instance to be very very light, and
>>>>>> it can startup in about 15 seconds or so, it is acceptable to have it
>>>>>> on-demand. You can wrap it in a script (using AWS API and tools) to just
>>>>>> start it up. Since it will be about 15 seconds boot/startup time, you will
>>>>>> find that very economical, and very simple to achieve. In any case,
>>>>>> considering your requirements, this does seem to be the most simple and
>>>>>> easy solution. Note that your IP *will* change each time you start
>>>>>> your instance, so your API interface should also tell you what's the IP
>>>>>> address of the machine (or you could use some no-dns service, but it will
>>>>>> probably be slower).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Etzion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:57 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <
>>>>>> esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know what type of load JIRA presents but for low load
>>>>>>> private stuff a raspberrypi or something similar (for heavier but still
>>>>>>> fairly 'light' stuff maybe an Intel NUC system or a mini-itx system) at
>>>>>>> home + noip/dyndns or some other form of locating it by yourself can be
>>>>>>> more then enough....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2015-01-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 Amos Shapira <amos.shapira at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was thinking about running it on my own laptop, and perhaps I
>>>>>>>> will.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But that would mean leaving it on around the clock which I don't
>>>>>>>> want to (I'm very conscious of power consumption, both economically and
>>>>>>>> environmentally), and I don't carry it with me most of the time but would
>>>>>>>> like to have access to my server from both my mobile and workplace.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 19:59, Vitaly <linux at karasik.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Amos,
>>>>>>>>> IMHO, it's not technical, but more  "human" issue. For example, as
>>>>>>>>> far as you decide that you need Jira every last day of month, you can
>>>>>>>>> launch instance automatically.
>>>>>>>>> But typically Jira usage is more random, so I don't think  there
>>>>>>>>> is technical solution exist.
>>>>>>>>> If you're the only Jira user, why don't run it from your own
>>>>>>>>> computer for free?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, BTW, AWS reserved instances allow you to modify everything;
>>>>>>>>> plus up-front pay isn't must anymore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>> Vitaly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Amos Shapira <
>>>>>>>>> amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes I'm well aware of the RI option. It can save up to %70 for
>>>>>>>>>> high-load (i.e. machines which are up 24/7), but much less saving compared
>>>>>>>>>> to something that you can keep bringing up and down on demand.
>>>>>>>>>> Also the up-front cost is not cheap, and commits you to that type
>>>>>>>>>> of instance (as far as I remember, you can't buy switch or upgrade an RI
>>>>>>>>>> slot, what's paid is paid).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 8 January 2015 at 12:47, Aviram Jenik <aviram at jenik.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not an AWS expert and would love to hear from those who are.
>>>>>>>>>>> But we do have a few (dozen) instances on AWS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We have them running 24/7. I get that you could start and stop
>>>>>>>>>>> on demand, but don't get how you would do that without changing the way you
>>>>>>>>>>> work in a drastic way (compared to a physical machine). To save costs, buy
>>>>>>>>>>> a 'reserved instance'. You are paying up front for 1-3 years (I recommend 3
>>>>>>>>>>> years) and then paying a very very low cost per hour. If your load is low,
>>>>>>>>>>> buy the 'low load' machine to save even more costs (but then you pay hire
>>>>>>>>>>> fees if you cross the threshold). I don't know how this works well enough -
>>>>>>>>>>> we always buy the 'high load' instance and buy them for 3 years; the total
>>>>>>>>>>> average cost is equivalent to what we would have paid for the hosting and
>>>>>>>>>>> so the hardware is "free".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Aviram
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Amos Shapira <
>>>>>>>>>>> amos.shapira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do people here keep EC2 instances running?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you leave it running 24/7 or do you fire them up when you
>>>>>>>>>>>> need them?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to run my own EC2 instance running $10 Jira + $10
>>>>>>>>>>>> Confluence (+$10 some extra useful add-ons) (to clarify - these are one-off
>>>>>>>>>>>> $10 for each product), but can't justify running a $30/month small EC2 (and
>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps more, Jira alone requires 1.5-2GB of RAM) just to be used at most a
>>>>>>>>>>>> few hours a month if not less.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But logging in to the console to fire it up (or through aws
>>>>>>>>>>>> cli, or using an Android based app) every time I want to access it also
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be inconvenient.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So is there another way?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --Amos
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> <http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
>> http://ladypine.org
>>
>
>


-- 
<http://au.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer>
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From dronkin at gmail.com  Sun Jan 18 10:54:08 2015
From: dronkin at gmail.com (David Ronkin)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:54:08 +0200
Subject: voice recognition specialist needed
Message-ID: <CAGq1vfFzSaq1V1jpViC3iGf5qbtYAOWxAmV+cFsA2Gdx=+H23w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

I'm looking for a specialist in voice recognition solutions ( based
Asterisk or similar, FOSS preferable of course ) for a long term freelance
contract.
Only people with relevant experience please contact me off the list david
at ok2go.co.il

David
http://www.ok2go.co.il/






-- 
?????,
??? ??????

*?? ???? ????? ??*?: http://dronkin.blogspot.com
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From idokan at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 08:17:52 2015
From: idokan at gmail.com (ik)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 08:17:52 +0200
Subject: voice recognition specialist needed
In-Reply-To: <CAGq1vfFzSaq1V1jpViC3iGf5qbtYAOWxAmV+cFsA2Gdx=+H23w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGq1vfFzSaq1V1jpViC3iGf5qbtYAOWxAmV+cFsA2Gdx=+H23w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOccsKD=V3SMWsYr0xe_UjNNiAciguAmu+oatCYKhxvTFz0DoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm not that person, but you're message is too cryptic.

There are voice signature systems, there are key words spotting, and
attempt to decipher meaning of words systems, each system contains
difference the requirement of what is required.

There are also human language issues to know about, each language has it's
own issues to deal with.

I do not know of any good open source software for any of that.

Ido
 On Jan 18, 2015 10:54 AM, "David Ronkin" <dronkin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I'm looking for a specialist in voice recognition solutions ( based
> Asterisk or similar, FOSS preferable of course ) for a long term freelance
> contract.
> Only people with relevant experience please contact me off the list david
> at ok2go.co.il
>
> David
> http://www.ok2go.co.il/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ?????,
> ??? ??????
>
> *?? ???? ????? ??*?: http://dronkin.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From dronkin at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 17:41:59 2015
From: dronkin at gmail.com (David Ronkin)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 17:41:59 +0200
Subject: voice recognition specialist needed
In-Reply-To: <CAOccsKD=V3SMWsYr0xe_UjNNiAciguAmu+oatCYKhxvTFz0DoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGq1vfFzSaq1V1jpViC3iGf5qbtYAOWxAmV+cFsA2Gdx=+H23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOccsKD=V3SMWsYr0xe_UjNNiAciguAmu+oatCYKhxvTFz0DoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGq1vfG2Vy3HNNLvC71Fh3BzU2zjWs905fM=dY1y0vr3Z5-b+Q@mail.gmail.com>

I know some companies sell this but, lets take Asterisk or similar, can
anyone give me a short overview, please:


1. how machure the speech recognition support in a FOSS ? which one is best
to start
2. i need basic voice/speech  recognition ability, to distingish a man in a
short possible time
3. what about hebrew (other langs) support?

Thanks!
David


2015-01-19 8:17 GMT+02:00 ik <idokan at gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> I'm not that person, but you're message is too cryptic.
>
> There are voice signature systems, there are key words spotting, and
> attempt to decipher meaning of words systems, each system contains
> difference the requirement of what is required.
>
> There are also human language issues to know about, each language has it's
> own issues to deal with.
>
> I do not know of any good open source software for any of that.
>
> Ido
>  On Jan 18, 2015 10:54 AM, "David Ronkin" <dronkin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I'm looking for a specialist in voice recognition solutions ( based
>> Asterisk or similar, FOSS preferable of course ) for a long term freelance
>> contract.
>> Only people with relevant experience please contact me off the list david
>> at ok2go.co.il
>>
>> David
>> http://www.ok2go.co.il/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ?????,
>> ??? ??????
>>
>> *?? ???? ????? ??*?: http://dronkin.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>


-- 
?????,
??? ??????

*?? ???? ????? ??*?: http://dronkin.blogspot.com
*????? ?? ????*: http://www.youtube.com/user/ronkinim
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From idokan at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 22:59:53 2015
From: idokan at gmail.com (ik)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 22:59:53 +0200
Subject: voice recognition specialist needed
In-Reply-To: <CAGq1vfG2Vy3HNNLvC71Fh3BzU2zjWs905fM=dY1y0vr3Z5-b+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGq1vfFzSaq1V1jpViC3iGf5qbtYAOWxAmV+cFsA2Gdx=+H23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOccsKD=V3SMWsYr0xe_UjNNiAciguAmu+oatCYKhxvTFz0DoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGq1vfG2Vy3HNNLvC71Fh3BzU2zjWs905fM=dY1y0vr3Z5-b+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOccsKBXXTbMn91PWTxa+9Un5aiEeYpDzLSheE3CMr4XRdY_YQ@mail.gmail.com>

David,

Again, what exactly are your requirements?

Do you require to identify a word ?
Do you require to understand the whole sentence ?
Do you need to know that "David" is "David" and not someone else ?

The three types of scenarios here are three different types of systems,
with three different types of products to use, and the voice signature has
it's own companies in that field.

To recognize a person, there are few companies in the world that does it,
and it costs tons of money, and depends on so many levels.
The thing is, that telephony (e.g. land line and sip trunk to land line)
always works in 8KHz (usually g711 and g729 in codecs), and that makes
things not very good to the subject, however codecs such as OPUS works in
Full HD and provides a lot more data to use, but not supported in many
places.

To understand a sentence, there are voice recognition services, such as
Nuance's, that afaik, does not capable in supporting Hebrew at all.

Last, you have keyword spotting, for example the way Pago works. You say a
name of a city, and it try to figure out pattern that is close enough to
that city.
It cannot understand all the words, but specific words that is was
programmed to find out.
For example the Israeli Police uses it for getting your ID number when you
want to know about speeding tickets in the IVR, and it doesn't work in all
cases.

I do not know of any open source solution for any of this type of solutions.
AFAIK, Asterisk does not support it by default, but requires plugins
depends on the system, or to send recordings to external system.
Freeswitch (another open source PBX) does support some of the protocols,
but not all, again, depends on what the exact solution is.
There is also YATE (another open source PBX), that I have never used, so I
cannot say,

It's too hard to answer more then that, without you explaining your actual
needs.

Ido


On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:41 PM, David Ronkin <dronkin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I know some companies sell this but, lets take Asterisk or similar, can
> anyone give me a short overview, please:
>
>
> 1. how machure the speech recognition support in a FOSS ? which one is
> best to start
> 2. i need basic voice/speech  recognition ability, to distingish a man in
> a short possible time
> 3. what about hebrew (other langs) support?
>
> Thanks!
> David
>
>
> 2015-01-19 8:17 GMT+02:00 ik <idokan at gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm not that person, but you're message is too cryptic.
>>
>> There are voice signature systems, there are key words spotting, and
>> attempt to decipher meaning of words systems, each system contains
>> difference the requirement of what is required.
>>
>> There are also human language issues to know about, each language has
>> it's own issues to deal with.
>>
>> I do not know of any good open source software for any of that.
>>
>> Ido
>>  On Jan 18, 2015 10:54 AM, "David Ronkin" <dronkin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a specialist in voice recognition solutions ( based
>>> Asterisk or similar, FOSS preferable of course ) for a long term freelance
>>> contract.
>>> Only people with relevant experience please contact me off the list david
>>> at ok2go.co.il
>>>
>>> David
>>> http://www.ok2go.co.il/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ?????,
>>> ??? ??????
>>>
>>> *?? ???? ????? ??*?: http://dronkin.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> ?????,
> ??? ??????
>
> *?? ???? ????? ??*?: http://dronkin.blogspot.com
> *????? ?? ????*: http://www.youtube.com/user/ronkinim
>
>
>
>
>
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 13:26:33 2015
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 13:26:33 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
In-Reply-To: <CAKnt4U-Jv93bALCcpm_rNdfnch+wWMfs-kctkgc57gUzr2OX_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-LpX2n8T1R0Prj2pQQDdG-jpg5SL=z3SeAeFqFQKjv_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMUp3wmwn-U5x0Os+O9t1NbT8xgkEz8N6k9cqZaiQKALw2zW=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-Jv93bALCcpm_rNdfnch+wWMfs-kctkgc57gUzr2OX_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3w=fnbi2niUdMLv+O+9tqT6ZxAj3D+OhK64ic3B5QBgp6g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:02 PM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:41 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:35 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have an iptables question
>>>>>
>>>>> i have the following
>>>>>
>>>>> ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 ..
>>>>> computer99
>>>>>
>>>>> i have no control over NAT1.
>>>>> computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.
>>>>>
>>>>> linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
>>>>> however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and
>>>>> also reach computer1
>>>>>
>>>>> so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets
>>>>> from internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1
>>>>> $ext_ip up' on computer1.
>>>>> this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
>>>>> ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well
>>>>>
>>>>> so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but
>>>>> will not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
>>>>> howerver i do not know how to do that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If computer1 can access ext_ip:7777, all you need is to allow
>>>> ip_forward (/etc/sysctl.conf for permanent, and echo 1 >
>>>> /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward) on computer1, and have all other computers
>>>> have a static route to ext_ip via computer1
>>>>
>>>> Then, in computer1,
>>>>
>>>> iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -o <interface going towards ext_ip> [ -i
>>>> <interface subnet of computers come from> ] -s <subnet of
>>>> computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport 7777 -j MASQUERADE
>>>>
>>>> should do...
>>>>
>>>> (of course, assuming the iptables FORWARD chain is not dropping those
>>>> packets; otherwise you'ld need an ACCEPT rule there, too...)
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> -- Shimi
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And on a second read, I think I got you wrong and the purpose was to
>>> access computer1 port 7777 (hopefully listening on 0.0.0.0) from computersN
>>> by using the external IP from the inside?
>>>
>> yes
>>
>>>
>>> couputerN default route is the linux firewall. without any rules on
>> linux firewall, it will forward packets from computer1 destined to ext_ip
>> to NAT1. and they will not reach computer1 att all, so rules on computer 1
>> are useless.
>>
>>
>> Doing a DNAT on linux firewall will direct the packets to computer1,
>> however computer 1 will know comuterN and will reply directly without going
>> through linux firewall, and computer1 will not match the packets to the
>> original connection.
>>
>
> But if you create a static route on computerN towards the external IP via
> computer1 like I suggested, then these connections will not get to linux
> firewall at all, rather then get to computer1 (I'm assuming they're on the
> same L2 and share IP addresses in the same IP subnet) - so rules on
> computer1 will apply, wouldn't they?
>
> What am I missing?
>
1. this means that i need to put static routes on computerN which is
computer2 .. computer99, which some are linux, some windows, some android,
some iphone, etc ...
the same thing can be acheved by adding a static route on linux firewall to
do the same
2. computer 1 will receive packets destined to ext_ip, so they will be
ignored.

>
> -- Shimi
>
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From erez0001 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 13:28:10 2015
From: erez0001 at gmail.com (Erez D)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 13:28:10 +0200
Subject: DNAT and MASQUERADE
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BNHAANYQXq8_x4xz3RcDG6HVQjWS9CzQsG=k2V4=krNMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMUp3wnuZjfuPKTrV=f84vezM0KG3fg8+nSwhCcGWdFKHarGbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U8Rgi4qqqj=NMEpfZx2E1iUGdbtBRhEHRMrSEGzPmLRbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-LpX2n8T1R0Prj2pQQDdG-jpg5SL=z3SeAeFqFQKjv_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMUp3wmwn-U5x0Os+O9t1NbT8xgkEz8N6k9cqZaiQKALw2zW=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKnt4U-Jv93bALCcpm_rNdfnch+wWMfs-kctkgc57gUzr2OX_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BNHAANYQXq8_x4xz3RcDG6HVQjWS9CzQsG=k2V4=krNMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMUp3w=qUGvJgHCEpNBokV73KndKraiJZewkuVJJ=aaxBVRYvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:50 PM, E.S. Rosenberg <esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il>
wrote:

> Alternatively you could also have a local dns/local hosts entries that
> point computerN at computer_1 when they are looking up whatever hostname is
> resolving to ext_ip....
>
nice idea. nut i'm not using DNS for that. also will cause all access to
ext_ip to go to computer1 (i may want to forward some ports to computer1
and some to other computers)

>
> If they are on the same LAN all normal (sane) security policy will cause
> the drop of their packets when they are trying to reach ext_ip from inside
> the network that has ext_ip and you need to bend over backwards to get them
> accepted..
>
> 2015-01-08 23:02 GMT+02:00 shimi <linux-il at shimi.net>:
>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:41 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 11:35 AM, shimi <linux-il at shimi.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Erez D <erez0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> hello.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have an iptables question
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i have the following
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ext_ip -> NAT1 -> linux firewall-> network -> computer1:eth0 ..
>>>>>> computer99
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i have no control over NAT1.
>>>>>> computer1 also can reach the internet via eth1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> linux firewall redirects incoming port 7777 from ext_ip to computer1
>>>>>> however i need coputer2 .. computer99 to connect to ext_ip:7777 and
>>>>>> also reach computer1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so first i did a NAT rule in linux firewall to redirect all packets
>>>>>> from internal to ext_ip:7777  to computer1. and did an 'ifconfig eth0:1
>>>>>> $ext_ip up' on computer1.
>>>>>> this works. however it causes computer1 not to be able to access real
>>>>>> ext_ip via eth1 which is connected to the internet as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so i though of both doing DNAT and MASQ, which will do the same but
>>>>>> will not require assiging ext_ip to computer1.
>>>>>> howerver i do not know how to do that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> If computer1 can access ext_ip:7777, all you need is to allow
>>>>> ip_forward (/etc/sysctl.conf for permanent, and echo 1 >
>>>>> /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward) on computer1, and have all other computers
>>>>> have a static route to ext_ip via computer1
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, in computer1,
>>>>>
>>>>> iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -o <interface going towards ext_ip> [
>>>>> -i <interface subnet of computers come from> ] -s <subnet of
>>>>> computers/netmask> -p tcp --dport 7777 -j MASQUERADE
>>>>>
>>>>> should do...
>>>>>
>>>>> (of course, assuming the iptables FORWARD chain is not dropping those
>>>>> packets; otherwise you'ld need an ACCEPT rule there, too...)
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH,
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Shimi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And on a second read, I think I got you wrong and the purpose was to
>>>> access computer1 port 7777 (hopefully listening on 0.0.0.0) from computersN
>>>> by using the external IP from the inside?
>>>>
>>> yes
>>>
>>>>
>>>> couputerN default route is the linux firewall. without any rules on
>>> linux firewall, it will forward packets from computer1 destined to ext_ip
>>> to NAT1. and they will not reach computer1 att all, so rules on computer 1
>>> are useless.
>>>
>>>
>>> Doing a DNAT on linux firewall will direct the packets to computer1,
>>> however computer 1 will know comuterN and will reply directly without going
>>> through linux firewall, and computer1 will not match the packets to the
>>> original connection.
>>>
>>
>> But if you create a static route on computerN towards the external IP via
>> computer1 like I suggested, then these connections will not get to linux
>> firewall at all, rather then get to computer1 (I'm assuming they're on the
>> same L2 and share IP addresses in the same IP subnet) - so rules on
>> computer1 will apply, wouldn't they?
>>
>> What am I missing?
>>
>> -- Shimi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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From wordz2u at gmail.com  Wed Jan 21 16:50:18 2015
From: wordz2u at gmail.com (Steve G.)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 16:50:18 +0200
Subject: Doing research with the big dogs
Message-ID: <CAJAZ2DRqUOj=Y-yy964rAezG2hb=eB2xQLyr=dpbqX=23yok0A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,

I want to study the possibility of use apps such as Google Fit or its Apple
and Microsoft equivalents to improve public health.

Does anyone know who in Google (Apple, Microsoft) Israel I need to contact
in order to ask for cooperation (in both funding and data collection and
sharing)? If you do, please send me a message off-list.

Needless to say, this is done in conjunction with epidemiologists and
public health professionals in universities and hospitals, and will have a
very detailed proposal of intervention, outcome, measurements, etc.

Thanks for your help.

Zvi G., Ph. D., MPH.
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Wed Jan 28 00:38:31 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:38:31 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
Message-ID: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il>

After a brief Google search:
Does anyone know about any research, theory or practice of time-varying
finite state machines?
I mean FSMs which might grow a new state, remove a state, add/subtract
transitions by means of meta-rules.

Given the research demonstrating the plasticity of the brain, such FSMs
could be nice models of neurons and neuron networks.

--- Omer


-- 
We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children
more than they hate us.
               Golda Meir (Israeli Prime Minister between 1969-1974)
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From shachar at shemesh.biz  Wed Jan 28 08:43:30 2015
From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 08:43:30 +0200
Subject: Lecture about D
Message-ID: <0c825e811e6a864b188dc8b7d7d467a8@shemesh.biz>

 

Hi everyone, 

My employer, weka.io[1] is holding a lecture about the D programming
language. D is a language designed for system programming, but also to
have features one has come to expect from a modern object oriented
language. 

Personally, I am not a huge fan of D. My relationship with C++ is better
than most, and I judge other languages in relation to what C++ has to
offer to those who managed to overcome its insane complexity. With that
said, D is faring much better in passing the "pissing Shachar off" test
than any other modern language. For comparison's sake, I could not stand
Python, and would only tolerate Java for small projects. I will not
mention Javascript for fear of having a heart attack. 

Anyways, the lecture takes place on Sunday, February 15 at 19:00 in
Weka's offices in Tel Aviv. Formal invitation can be seen at
http://www.shemesh.biz/files/D%20EVENT%20Invitation.pdf. Please RSVP if
you intend to come. 

Shachar 

1 - which is also the web address. Where have the world gone to? When I
opened Lingnu, I chose the name partly because it had an available .com.
Now we include the top level domain into the actual company's name. So
the company's web site is http://weka.io. Not that there is anything of
substance in the sole web page that's there...[2] 

2 - Criticism over the company's choice of name and web site content
should, in no way, be considered as criticism of the actual company.
I've been working there for a little under half a year, and have been
enjoying pretty much every aspect of it. I love the people, the
technology, the product and its prospects (i.e. - how usable it is to
its potential customers). 
 
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From shachar at shemesh.biz  Wed Jan 28 19:29:47 2015
From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:29:47 +0200
Subject: Lecture about D
In-Reply-To: <0c825e811e6a864b188dc8b7d7d467a8@shemesh.biz>
References: <0c825e811e6a864b188dc8b7d7d467a8@shemesh.biz>
Message-ID: <54C91C8B.2090508@shemesh.biz>

On 28/01/15 08:43, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
I got feedback that some people can't click the RSVP of the invitation.
The PDF: http://www.shemesh.biz/files/D%20EVENT%20Invitation.pdf
The RSVP link:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/d-evening-at-wekaio-tickets-15087370732

Shachar
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From shachar at shemesh.biz  Wed Jan 28 19:31:35 2015
From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:31:35 +0200
Subject: Lecture about D
In-Reply-To: <0c825e811e6a864b188dc8b7d7d467a8@shemesh.biz>
References: <0c825e811e6a864b188dc8b7d7d467a8@shemesh.biz>
Message-ID: <54C91CF7.60302@shemesh.biz>

On 28/01/15 08:43, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
Also, right next to the offices there is a parking lot that shuts down
payment at around 5, so it should be free. There should also be a
reasonable amount of parking on the street in that neighborhood (it's
not really Tel Aviv...).

Shachar
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Wed Jan 28 20:04:12 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:04:12 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> writes:

> After a brief Google search:
> Does anyone know about any research, theory or practice of time-varying
> finite state machines?

Short answer: I don't. ;-) I'll offer a couple of thoughts, anyway.

> I mean FSMs which might grow a new state, remove a state, add/subtract
> transitions by means of meta-rules.

I suppose it may be possible to write a FSM in such a way that
adding/removing the allowed states and transitions dynamically would be
possible. This would not be enough, though: any "interesting" FSM would
not just formally move from one state to another but do custom stuff as
a part of a transition, and one would want to create and load such
custom code dynamically.

I would *intuitively* think that an environment that has a comprehensive
meta-object protocol (MOP), e.g., Common Lisp/CLOS, would allow one, in
principle, to construct/modify/destroy new states/transitions/custom
reactors at runtime. Were I presented with a research problem involving
such "dynamic" state machines this would be the first direction I'd
look. Macros (real ones, not cpp-kind) may also help a lot.

Without a MOP the task may be (a lot?) more difficult. Whether it is
possible (in a reasonable time frame, practically) or not I cannot say
with confidence, not after a few minutes of sctratching my head. I
suspect (again, *intuitively*) that one difficulty may be that the state
machine might need to know something about the future capabilities at
construction time. If you manage to specify a common interface to all
the components and generate compliant implementations then maybe you can
manipulate your state machine at the level of base/interface classes
even in statically typed environments. Dynamic typing could
help. Another serious difficulty would be generating implementations at
runtime, but this difficulty seems practical rather than conceptual.
 
I don't know how much it helps.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From shachar at shemesh.biz  Thu Jan 29 10:21:10 2015
From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:21:10 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il> <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>

On 28/01/15 20:04, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> writes:
>
>> After a brief Google search:
>> Does anyone know about any research, theory or practice of time-varying
>> finite state machines?
> Short answer: I don't. ;-) I'll offer a couple of thoughts, anyway.
>
>> I mean FSMs which might grow a new state, remove a state, add/subtract
>> transitions by means of meta-rules.
> I suppose it may be possible to write a FSM in such a way that
> adding/removing the allowed states and transitions dynamically would be
> possible. This would not be enough, though: any "interesting" FSM would
> not just formally move from one state to another but do custom stuff as
> a part of a transition, and one would want to create and load such
> custom code dynamically.
>
Didn't you just describe a Turing machine?

Shachar
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From ori at helicontech.co.il  Thu Jan 29 15:37:20 2015
From: ori at helicontech.co.il (Ori Idan)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:37:20 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il> <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>
Message-ID: <CACyhTREvgXHtt0wftmf2RnA888OEeVbjmD5S4WYv+6P2w=iCYw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Shachar Shemesh <shachar at shemesh.biz>
wrote:

>  On 28/01/15 20:04, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
>
> Omer Zak <w1 at zak.co.il> <w1 at zak.co.il> writes:
>
>
>  After a brief Google search:
> Does anyone know about any research, theory or practice of time-varying
> finite state machines?
>
>  Short answer: I don't. ;-) I'll offer a couple of thoughts, anyway.
>
>
>  I mean FSMs which might grow a new state, remove a state, add/subtract
> transitions by means of meta-rules.
>
>  I suppose it may be possible to write a FSM in such a way that
> adding/removing the allowed states and transitions dynamically would be
> possible. This would not be enough, though: any "interesting" FSM would
> not just formally move from one state to another but do custom stuff as
> a part of a transition, and one would want to create and load such
> custom code dynamically.
>
>
>  Didn't you just describe a Turing machine?
>
Turing machine is finite and has certain number of states with defined
transitions. I think what Omer meant here was more of a dynamic Turing
machine.

-- 
Ori Idan



>
> Shachar
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From shachar at shemesh.biz  Thu Jan 29 16:50:44 2015
From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:50:44 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <CACyhTREvgXHtt0wftmf2RnA888OEeVbjmD5S4WYv+6P2w=iCYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il>
 <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org> <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>
 <CACyhTREvgXHtt0wftmf2RnA888OEeVbjmD5S4WYv+6P2w=iCYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54CA48C4.9020409@shemesh.biz>

On 29/01/15 15:37, Ori Idan wrote:
>
>     Didn't you just describe a Turing machine?
>
> Turing machine is finite and has certain number of states with defined
> transitions. I think what Omer meant here was more of a dynamic Turing
> machine.
>
Since a Turing machine has an infinite amount of memory, and since that
memory can be used in order to decide on which transitions to perform, I
disagree with your statement that there is a difference.

After all, each new state that Omer's "FSM" (I'm not sure how you can
call it a Finite state machine, when you do not bound the number of
states it has, hence the quotes) must be describable given a combination
of the initial states and the input. This is, precisely, how a Turing
machine works.

Shachar
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From pub at goldshmidt.org  Fri Jan 30 09:50:26 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:50:26 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il> <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>
Message-ID: <87lhkkg119.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Shachar Shemesh <shachar at shemesh.biz> writes:

> Didn't you just describe a Turing machine?

I don't think so. No one said anything about having an infinite number
of states, for instance. There may or may not be a connection, so what?
A Turing machine is a theoretical construct, I thought the question was
about practical approaches to a problem. I don't even think the original
question has a connection to a Turing machine. All Omer asked (as far as
I understood) was how one would create a *finite* state machine that
could "grow" or "lose" a state at runtime.

I just thought of a typical FSM design where you specify the events the
states, and the transitions/reactions, and in the end you have a
"machine" class with a bunch of possible states one of which is current,
and transition/reaction methods accepting events as arguments that do
something and modify the current state. Even in the fanciest designs
I've seen so far the components of the design are statically defined:
you know all the states, events, and transitions at compile time, if you
wish (my experience has been mostly in C++, guilty).

This is why I thought of MOP that allows your program's objects to
modify other objects and themselves at runtime, and modify your class
hierarchy at runtime, too, since that is also an object. My intuition
tells me that this will allow you to take the typical FSM design and
start adding/removing/modifying states and transitions on the fly.

If I have accidentally stumbled upon a way to construct a Turing
machine, I don't know. I doubt it, at least because nothing has been
said about expanding memory indefinitely. But I have not thought about
it enough.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From pub at goldshmidt.org  Fri Jan 30 10:02:44 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:02:44 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <87lhkkg119.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il> <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz> <87lhkkg119.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <87d25wg0gr.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> writes:

> I don't think so. No one said anything about having an infinite number
> of states, for instance. 

s/numer of states/memory/ of course. I did get it right closer to the
end of my post.

Sorry for the slip.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From mordbe0 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 10:29:09 2015
From: mordbe0 at gmail.com (Mord Behar)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:29:09 +0200
Subject: OT: ISP throttling
Message-ID: <CAJzkJxFSZxrRq0uoP-o8qR8iZHLnVoohmFgxw4qO4hCdyguw7w@mail.gmail.com>

Has anybody encountered any throttling here, by any of the ISPs?
I first started noticing that mobile browsing was faster (to some sites)
than my home wifi. So I thought at first it was my router.
But I ran a trace route to Google and got speedy responses within Bezeq's
network, but lots of timeouts outside it.
Not all websites seem to be slow, and it appears to be a random event. The
closest common element I can think of is that Google sites are responding
very slowly. However sites that don't have any Google affiliation (no
adwords or hosting and apis or anything) respond quite quickly. However
Google-intensive services on my mobile respond very quickly on the mobile
network.
So maybe Bezeq is being problematic?
Any thoughts?
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From orentet at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 10:30:58 2015
From: orentet at gmail.com (OrenTet)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:30:58 +0200
Subject: OT: ISP throttling
In-Reply-To: <CAJzkJxFSZxrRq0uoP-o8qR8iZHLnVoohmFgxw4qO4hCdyguw7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJzkJxFSZxrRq0uoP-o8qR8iZHLnVoohmFgxw4qO4hCdyguw7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALOAO-vv0F1Mh8Pg__=46oMmMS8mATmUXicyE+tGSsxQHnieWA@mail.gmail.com>

Ive experienced bittorent throttling by 012 a few years ago.
On Jan 30, 2015 10:29 AM, "Mord Behar" <mordbe0 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anybody encountered any throttling here, by any of the ISPs?
> I first started noticing that mobile browsing was faster (to some sites)
> than my home wifi. So I thought at first it was my router.
> But I ran a trace route to Google and got speedy responses within Bezeq's
> network, but lots of timeouts outside it.
> Not all websites seem to be slow, and it appears to be a random event. The
> closest common element I can think of is that Google sites are responding
> very slowly. However sites that don't have any Google affiliation (no
> adwords or hosting and apis or anything) respond quite quickly. However
> Google-intensive services on my mobile respond very quickly on the mobile
> network.
> So maybe Bezeq is being problematic?
> Any thoughts?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Fri Jan 30 10:37:23 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:37:23 +0200
Subject: OT: ISP throttling
In-Reply-To: <CALOAO-vv0F1Mh8Pg__=46oMmMS8mATmUXicyE+tGSsxQHnieWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJzkJxFSZxrRq0uoP-o8qR8iZHLnVoohmFgxw4qO4hCdyguw7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALOAO-vv0F1Mh8Pg__=46oMmMS8mATmUXicyE+tGSsxQHnieWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BP6KN3faC2XWQVR-W4xfsvUy_USVEYMe-66yR3pzK-r9g@mail.gmail.com>

All networks throttle, the only question is do they do it well enough that
you don't notice or not....
I have friends who had throttling removed after complaining (they were put
on 'gamer' plans).

2015-01-30 10:30 GMT+02:00 OrenTet <orentet at gmail.com>:

> Ive experienced bittorent throttling by 012 a few years ago.
> On Jan 30, 2015 10:29 AM, "Mord Behar" <mordbe0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anybody encountered any throttling here, by any of the ISPs?
>> I first started noticing that mobile browsing was faster (to some sites)
>> than my home wifi. So I thought at first it was my router.
>> But I ran a trace route to Google and got speedy responses within Bezeq's
>> network, but lots of timeouts outside it.
>> Not all websites seem to be slow, and it appears to be a random event.
>> The closest common element I can think of is that Google sites are
>> responding very slowly. However sites that don't have any Google
>> affiliation (no adwords or hosting and apis or anything) respond quite
>> quickly. However Google-intensive services on my mobile respond very
>> quickly on the mobile network.
>> So maybe Bezeq is being problematic?
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 10:48:50 2015
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (geoffrey mendelson)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:48:50 +0200
Subject: OT: ISP throttling
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BP6KN3faC2XWQVR-W4xfsvUy_USVEYMe-66yR3pzK-r9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJzkJxFSZxrRq0uoP-o8qR8iZHLnVoohmFgxw4qO4hCdyguw7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALOAO-vv0F1Mh8Pg__=46oMmMS8mATmUXicyE+tGSsxQHnieWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BP6KN3faC2XWQVR-W4xfsvUy_USVEYMe-66yR3pzK-r9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54CB4572.40702@gmail.com>

On 1/30/2015 10:37 AM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:
> All networks throttle, the only question is do they do it well enough 
> that you don't notice or not....
> I have friends who had throttling removed after complaining (they were 
> put on 'gamer' plans).
>

My kids are on netvision (now cellcom). They have a gamer's plan and 
don't see any throttling. Things got slow for a day or two when they 
started their IP-TV service, but it seems to be back to normal now.

  I use CCC and don't see any either. I do  a lot of bit torrent and 
http downloads.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
Jerusalem Israel.



From pub at goldshmidt.org  Fri Jan 30 10:51:39 2015
From: pub at goldshmidt.org (Oleg Goldshmidt)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:51:39 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <54CA48C4.9020409@shemesh.biz>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il> <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
 <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>
 <CACyhTREvgXHtt0wftmf2RnA888OEeVbjmD5S4WYv+6P2w=iCYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54CA48C4.9020409@shemesh.biz>
Message-ID: <878ugkfy78.fsf@goldshmidt.org>

Shachar Shemesh <shachar at shemesh.biz> writes:

> On 29/01/15 15:37, Ori Idan wrote:
>                 
>         Didn't you just describe a Turing machine?
>
>     Turing machine is finite and has certain number of states with
>     defined transitions. I think what Omer meant here was more of a
>     dynamic Turing machine.
>     
> Since a Turing machine has an infinite amount of memory, and since
> that memory can be used in order to decide on which transitions to
> perform, I disagree with your statement that there is a difference.

I think you are both right. A Turing machine has a finite and static
table of states and transitions, having infinite memory does not make
the number of allowed states infinite (cf. my negligent slip in a
previous post). 

> After all, each new state that Omer's "FSM" (I'm not sure how you can
> call it a Finite state machine, when you do not bound the number of
> states it has, hence the quotes) 

"Finite" != Constant, at least not in my mind. I have not checked
whether the definition of FSM includes a constant number of states. In
any case, it's semantics, let's call it a D(ynamic)SM. 

> must be describable given a combination of the initial states and the
> input. This is, precisely, how a Turing machine works.

And here you may be right. The "must be describable" bit requires a
proof, but the proof may be simple, given that "input" is arbitrary (as
far as I can see) and may be infinite. I am with you, so I am willing to
give it some more thought.

How about modelling something evolving? Assume you can model me, in
sufficient detail, as a state machine. Intuitively[*], I am a bit more
complex and have a richer state set than an amoeba. It may be
theoretically possible to model the evolution from an amoeba all the way
to a primate based on a static set of elementary particles and their
states, and infinite memory (rings a bell?). That model might not be
practical, exactly for this last reason.

In my mind it's a question of modelling and representation. We all know
how to create abstractions, modularize, etc. So if we have a module that
is, for all intents and purposes, an FSM, can we create an event (and
events can carry data, and programs are data, and metaprograms doubly
so) that will deliver a metaprogram that will be executed as a part of
the reactor and will add another state and some new transitions to the
FSM? After that, our module will have new capabilities (it will have
"learnt" something new, if you will).

Can this be described as a larger system that includes both the FSM in
the previous paragraph and stuff external to it (including our
metaprogram that the FSM knew nothng about until it arrived)?
Probably. And that larger system may be a regular FSM with a very large
state set / transition table. However, it may be so large that it will
be impractical (will probably become unmaintanable even earlier - that's
why we modularize, eh?). And all the new states/transitions might not be
known at "compile time".

In conclusion, it well may be that any system that include things that
can be modelled as our imaginary DSMs can be theoretically represented
as a Turing Machine. An implementation of such a Turing Machine may be
not practical, however, and therein lies a possible motivation for
exploring DSMs as a more practical approach.

[*] "Intuitively" here means that a negation of the statement will
    require a proof...
 
-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | pub at goldshmidt.org


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Fri Jan 30 12:02:18 2015
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 12:02:18 +0200
Subject: OT: ISP throttling
In-Reply-To: <54CB4572.40702@gmail.com>
References: <CAJzkJxFSZxrRq0uoP-o8qR8iZHLnVoohmFgxw4qO4hCdyguw7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALOAO-vv0F1Mh8Pg__=46oMmMS8mATmUXicyE+tGSsxQHnieWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHTx_BP6KN3faC2XWQVR-W4xfsvUy_USVEYMe-66yR3pzK-r9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <54CB4572.40702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BPYFDWF=Fs0tqBXcP9ti-C986ZwbauciVDf9jcLxAeBng@mail.gmail.com>

CCC is probably the player that does it the least (I was with them for a
while, left them for reasons not connected to them), when I was with them
everything was great.

The big/old players do throttle and you need to request things like the
gamers plan to not get throttled...

2015-01-30 10:48 GMT+02:00 geoffrey mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com>:

> On 1/30/2015 10:37 AM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> All networks throttle, the only question is do they do it well enough
>> that you don't notice or not....
>> I have friends who had throttling removed after complaining (they were
>> put on 'gamer' plans).
>>
>>
> My kids are on netvision (now cellcom). They have a gamer's plan and don't
> see any throttling. Things got slow for a day or two when they started
> their IP-TV service, but it seems to be back to normal now.
>
>  I use CCC and don't see any either. I do  a lot of bit torrent and http
> downloads.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From yuval.langer at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 12:35:10 2015
From: yuval.langer at gmail.com (Yuval Langer)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 12:35:10 +0200
Subject: OT: ISP throttling
In-Reply-To: <CAK0OjG1Eo0dQcYxxp49fhoPtdrbAzK=1TD4xP3Tf-Y=NiLefng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJzkJxFSZxrRq0uoP-o8qR8iZHLnVoohmFgxw4qO4hCdyguw7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK0OjG1Eo0dQcYxxp49fhoPtdrbAzK=1TD4xP3Tf-Y=NiLefng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK0OjG2uJv_En=Akfu5WtwtXMKvWaR5cpL9BjLgQYPOVgjTdSA@mail.gmail.com>

Project Glasnost is building some ISP throttling testing tools:
http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/

On 30 January 2015 at 10:29, Mord Behar <mordbe0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anybody encountered any throttling here, by any of the ISPs?
> I first started noticing that mobile browsing was faster (to some sites)
> than my home wifi. So I thought at first it was my router.
> But I ran a trace route to Google and got speedy responses within Bezeq's
> network, but lots of timeouts outside it.
> Not all websites seem to be slow, and it appears to be a random event. The
> closest common element I can think of is that Google sites are responding
> very slowly. However sites that don't have any Google affiliation (no
> adwords or hosting and apis or anything) respond quite quickly. However
> Google-intensive services on my mobile respond very quickly on the mobile
> network.
> So maybe Bezeq is being problematic?
> Any thoughts?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>


From w1 at zak.co.il  Fri Jan 30 22:03:37 2015
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 22:03:37 +0200
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Time varying FSMs
In-Reply-To: <878ugkfy78.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
References: <1422398311.825.18.camel@zak.co.il>
 <87h9vadboj.fsf@goldshmidt.org> <54C9ED76.6040101@shemesh.biz>
 <CACyhTREvgXHtt0wftmf2RnA888OEeVbjmD5S4WYv+6P2w=iCYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54CA48C4.9020409@shemesh.biz> <878ugkfy78.fsf@goldshmidt.org>
Message-ID: <1422648217.825.255.camel@zak.co.il>

Of course, anything more complicated than a non-programmable calculator
can be considered to be a Turing machine (sometimes, with bounded memory
capacity).

However, it would be as useful as saying that every computer program is
a function transforming an input (such as a series of events in a GUI
based program) into an output (such as a series of screen behaviors).  

Therefore, as software developers, we use other concepts, which help us
to accomplish more.

I would like to propose another point of view.  Call it another series
of concepts, which may be more helpful than the concepts of a Turing
machine or a time-varying FSM.

Let's consider not a big time-varying FSM but time-varying cellular
automata.  Perhaps they won't vary their states and transition rules.
But they would vary their interconnections.  Those interconnections
would be as complicated and entangled, topology-wise, as those of
physical neurons.

It would be interesting to figure out interesting rules by which such
cellular automata would form new connections, break off old connections,
spawn new units, etc.

--- Omer


On Fri, 2015-01-30 at 10:51 +0200, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> Shachar Shemesh <shachar at shemesh.biz> writes:
> 
> > On 29/01/15 15:37, Ori Idan wrote:
> >                 
> >         Didn't you just describe a Turing machine?
> >
> >     Turing machine is finite and has certain number of states with
> >     defined transitions. I think what Omer meant here was more of a
> >     dynamic Turing machine.
> >     
> > Since a Turing machine has an infinite amount of memory, and since
> > that memory can be used in order to decide on which transitions to
> > perform, I disagree with your statement that there is a difference.
> 
> I think you are both right. A Turing machine has a finite and static
> table of states and transitions, having infinite memory does not make
> the number of allowed states infinite (cf. my negligent slip in a
> previous post). 
> 
> > After all, each new state that Omer's "FSM" (I'm not sure how you can
> > call it a Finite state machine, when you do not bound the number of
> > states it has, hence the quotes) 
> 
> "Finite" != Constant, at least not in my mind. I have not checked
> whether the definition of FSM includes a constant number of states. In
> any case, it's semantics, let's call it a D(ynamic)SM. 
> 
> > must be describable given a combination of the initial states and the
> > input. This is, precisely, how a Turing machine works.
> 
> And here you may be right. The "must be describable" bit requires a
> proof, but the proof may be simple, given that "input" is arbitrary (as
> far as I can see) and may be infinite. I am with you, so I am willing to
> give it some more thought.
> 
> How about modelling something evolving? Assume you can model me, in
> sufficient detail, as a state machine. Intuitively[*], I am a bit more
> complex and have a richer state set than an amoeba. It may be
> theoretically possible to model the evolution from an amoeba all the way
> to a primate based on a static set of elementary particles and their
> states, and infinite memory (rings a bell?). That model might not be
> practical, exactly for this last reason.
> 
> In my mind it's a question of modelling and representation. We all know
> how to create abstractions, modularize, etc. So if we have a module that
> is, for all intents and purposes, an FSM, can we create an event (and
> events can carry data, and programs are data, and metaprograms doubly
> so) that will deliver a metaprogram that will be executed as a part of
> the reactor and will add another state and some new transitions to the
> FSM? After that, our module will have new capabilities (it will have
> "learnt" something new, if you will).
> 
> Can this be described as a larger system that includes both the FSM in
> the previous paragraph and stuff external to it (including our
> metaprogram that the FSM knew nothng about until it arrived)?
> Probably. And that larger system may be a regular FSM with a very large
> state set / transition table. However, it may be so large that it will
> be impractical (will probably become unmaintanable even earlier - that's
> why we modularize, eh?). And all the new states/transitions might not be
> known at "compile time".
> 
> In conclusion, it well may be that any system that include things that
> can be modelled as our imaginary DSMs can be theoretically represented
> as a Turing Machine. An implementation of such a Turing Machine may be
> not practical, however, and therein lies a possible motivation for
> exploring DSMs as a more practical approach.
> 
> [*] "Intuitively" here means that a negation of the statement will
>     require a proof...
>  

-- 
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