From dag at tx.technion.ac.il  Wed Nov  8 16:49:35 2017
From: dag at tx.technion.ac.il (Shahar Dag)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 16:49:35 +0200
Subject: =?windows-1255?B?IODp6iDs+ezl5yDu8eX6IPnsIOPl4Pg=?=
Message-ID: <001001d358a0$cb405940$61c10bc0$@tx.technion.ac.il>

????

 

??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???.
??? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ???"?
???? ?????.

??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????, ??? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ?? ???
?????.

 

??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??
?????? ???? ??????.

 

??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???

 

?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????, ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???
?? ??????? ???.

??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???
???? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???

 

????

???

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From lior at okman.name  Thu Nov  9 06:08:37 2017
From: lior at okman.name (Lior Okman)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 06:08:37 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6INeQ15nXmiDXnNep15zXldeXINee16HXldeqINep15wg15PXldeQ16g=?=
In-Reply-To: <001001d358a0$cb405940$61c10bc0$@tx.technion.ac.il>
References: <001001d358a0$cb405940$61c10bc0$@tx.technion.ac.il>
Message-ID: <CALXNYukkYfn5TFDWG1HUyWHaygXdGL_Lq8Hx6Xz-qDk3X0CwKg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

You could take a look at Amazon's Simple Email Service:
https://aws.amazon.com/ses/pricing/

Copying from the website:

> Amazon Simple Email Service (Amazon SES) is a cloud-based email sending
service designed to help digital marketers and application developers send
marketing, notification, and transactional emails. It is a reliable,
cost-effective service for businesses of all sizes that use email to > keep
in contact with their customers.
>
> You can use our SMTP interface or one of the AWS SDKs to integrate Amazon
SES directly into your existing applications. You can also integrate the
email sending capabilities of Amazon SES into the software you already use,
such as ticketing systems and email clients.


--
Lior

2017-11-08 16:49 GMT+02:00 Shahar Dag <dag at tx.technion.ac.il>:

> ????
>
>
>
> ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???.
> ??? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ???"?
> ???? ?????.
>
> ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????, ??? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ?? ???
> ?????.
>
>
>
> ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??
> ?????? ???? ??????.
>
>
>
> ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???
>
>
>
> ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????, ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???
> ?? ??????? ???.
>
> ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???
> ???? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???
>
>
>
> ????
>
> ???
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From rabin at rabin.io  Thu Nov  9 12:50:04 2017
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 12:50:04 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6INeQ15nXmiDXnNep15zXldeXINee16HXldeqINep15wg15PXldeQ16g=?=
In-Reply-To: <CALXNYukkYfn5TFDWG1HUyWHaygXdGL_Lq8Hx6Xz-qDk3X0CwKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001001d358a0$cb405940$61c10bc0$@tx.technion.ac.il>
 <CALXNYukkYfn5TFDWG1HUyWHaygXdGL_Lq8Hx6Xz-qDk3X0CwKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEBZYndhOW=hABqHRQnzSQWcMY9OtCHz-+9hZwaNijrGiA@mail.gmail.com>

one things to note about this services is that if the client side use
postgray/graylisting to "filter" incoming mail,
this mails can arrive after several hours. because for each 4xx/soft-fail
attempt they will try to send the mail from another host/ip which will also
be soft-block.

i have this problem with several services like this.
and I had to white-list them on my mail servers.

but that is a client side problem and not Lior's, but you should be aware
of this as well.

--
Rabin

2017-11-09 6:08 GMT+02:00 Lior Okman <lior at okman.name>:

> Hi,
>
> You could take a look at Amazon's Simple Email Service:
> https://aws.amazon.com/ses/pricing/
>
> Copying from the website:
>
> > Amazon Simple Email Service (Amazon SES) is a cloud-based email sending
> service designed to help digital marketers and application developers send
> marketing, notification, and transactional emails. It is a reliable,
> cost-effective service for businesses of all sizes that use email to > keep
> in contact with their customers.
> >
> > You can use our SMTP interface or one of the AWS SDKs to integrate
> Amazon SES directly into your existing applications. You can also integrate
> the email sending capabilities of Amazon SES into the software you already
> use, such as ticketing systems and email clients.
>
>
> --
> Lior
>
> 2017-11-08 16:49 GMT+02:00 Shahar Dag <dag at tx.technion.ac.il>:
>
>> ????
>>
>>
>>
>> ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???.
>> ??? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ???"?
>> ???? ?????.
>>
>> ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????, ??? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ?? ???
>> ?????.
>>
>>
>>
>> ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??
>> ?????? ???? ??????.
>>
>>
>>
>> ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???
>>
>>
>>
>> ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????, ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??????
>> ??? ?? ??????? ???.
>>
>> ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???
>> ???? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???
>>
>>
>>
>> ????
>>
>> ???
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Thu Nov  9 13:45:40 2017
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (Geoffrey Mendelson)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:45:40 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6INeQ15nXmiDXnNep15zXldeXINee16HXldeqINep15wg15PXldeQ?=
 =?UTF-8?B?16g=?=
In-Reply-To: <001001d358a0$cb405940$61c10bc0$@tx.technion.ac.il>
References: <001001d358a0$cb405940$61c10bc0$@tx.technion.ac.il>
Message-ID: <8360d721-994c-e9a2-66dc-3976b48526fb@gmail.com>

On 11/8/2017 4:49 PM, Shahar Dag wrote:
>
> ????
>
> ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???.
> ??? ???? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?????? 
> ???"? ???? ?????.
>
> ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???????, ??? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ?? 
> ??? ?????.
>
> ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? 
> ?? ?????? ???? ??????.
>
> ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???
>
> ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????, ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? 
> ??? ?? ??????? ???.
>
> ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? 
> ??? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???
>
> ????
>
> ???
>

If he is not willing to use his company's email, it borders on SPAM. 
Most SPAM filters will block it, especially if the reply-to address is 
not the same as the sender.

IMHO he would be much better off using one of the may advertising direct 
mail companies, e.g. Mail Chimp, etc. If people do not want mailings 
from them, they have long ago put them in their block lists, so you are 
only advertising to the willing. Since the reply address is filtered 
through them, it does not appear as mismatched SPAM.

Geoff.
-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel
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From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 09:54:42 2017
From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:54:42 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
Message-ID: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>

I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...

I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
making.

So I'm thinking about abandoning ship. 

I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
like how configurable Mageia is.

I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).

I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
additional options)?

-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5


From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 10:18:47 2017
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (Geoffrey Mendelson)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:18:47 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
Message-ID: <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>

On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.

Mageia is maintained by Shlomi Fish and others. You probably should talk 
to him. I don't use it because I only have servers, and they don't have 
a oriented server distro.

> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.
>
> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
Does it run 64 bit code? Some of the distros dropped x86, I know Ubuntu 
did, but it came back with a "user group" provided sub distro.


> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?

Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic anti-semite. 
He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it 
violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because 
many of the maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of 
the people here serve milluim.

He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but if 
you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control 
the world.? You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on 
his slap in the face apologies,? he deleted all the relevant blog postings.

Geoff.
-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel


From rabin at rabin.io  Sun Nov 19 10:22:14 2017
From: rabin at rabin.io (Rabin Yasharzadehe)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:22:14 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
Message-ID: <CABKuJEB4K70JDkngs2U3=v0-qRYGL8VpZR8Z7Fmn8n2ohOawew@mail.gmail.com>

I like to go with Fedora MATE spin as I find it resource friendly.
and I use compiz as my window manager to have a very robust features and
some eye candy features as well.

Fedora move fast and have a short release cycle (6 month),
so having to deal with new stuff each 6 month can be a burden for someone
how just want his computer to work.
in that case I'll recommend a distro which is based on Ubuntu LTS e,g
Ubuntu MATE.

MATE desktop dose not support HiDPI display yet, unlike KDE and Gnome3
but if you prefer to use KDE, both Fedoa and Ubuntu have a spin of it.

there is also KDE neon which uses a stable base of the OS (Ubuntu LTS IIRC),
and all the KDE stuff are coming directly from upstream (rolling)




--
Rabin

On 19 November 2017 at 09:54, Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
>
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>
> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.
>
> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>
> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From govershay at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 10:33:40 2017
From: govershay at gmail.com (Shay Gover)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:33:40 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CABKuJEB4K70JDkngs2U3=v0-qRYGL8VpZR8Z7Fmn8n2ohOawew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <CABKuJEB4K70JDkngs2U3=v0-qRYGL8VpZR8Z7Fmn8n2ohOawew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANM5d8eBEvtjWiBUw862QBRka1+XhvLC_91YMT88YAh4sxcKbw@mail.gmail.com>

Mint has dropped the KDE version.

What about arch?

On Nov 19, 2017 10:22, "Rabin Yasharzadehe" <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:

> I like to go with Fedora MATE spin as I find it resource friendly.
> and I use compiz as my window manager to have a very robust features and
> some eye candy features as well.
>
> Fedora move fast and have a short release cycle (6 month),
> so having to deal with new stuff each 6 month can be a burden for someone
> how just want his computer to work.
> in that case I'll recommend a distro which is based on Ubuntu LTS e,g
> Ubuntu MATE.
>
> MATE desktop dose not support HiDPI display yet, unlike KDE and Gnome3
> but if you prefer to use KDE, both Fedoa and Ubuntu have a spin of it.
>
> there is also KDE neon which uses a stable base of the OS (Ubuntu LTS
> IIRC),
> and all the KDE stuff are coming directly from upstream (rolling)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rabin
>
> On 19 November 2017 at 09:54, Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>>
>> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
>> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
>> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
>> making.
>>
>> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>>
>> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
>> like how configurable Mageia is.
>>
>> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
>> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>>
>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
>> additional options)?
>>
>> --
>> Shlomo Solomon
>> http://the-solomons.net
>> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 10:43:14 2017
From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:43:14 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20171119104314.588db269@shlomo1.solomon>

Interesting info about Mint (and yes I checked - what you wrote is
accurate). I don't think politics and software should mix, but NO WAY
I'll even consider Mint now. :-)


On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:18:47 +0200
Geoffrey Mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
> anti-semite. He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF
> because it violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is
> impossible, because many of the maintainers of all distros use code
> from Israel, and most of the people here serve milluim.
> 
> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
> if you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who
> control the world.? You probably can't find them, as when he was
> called out on his slap in the face apologies,? he deleted all the
> relevant blog postings.
> 
> Geoff.



-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5


From esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il  Sun Nov 19 11:15:37 2017
From: esr+linux-il at g.jct.ac.il (E.S. Rosenberg)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 11:15:37 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20171119104314.588db269@shlomo1.solomon>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119104314.588db269@shlomo1.solomon>
Message-ID: <CAHTx_BNWQGHxr97ftAeN-do0-Y_0v5xtp53sUyaoRZZt86dCBw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm more of a Gnome user and haven't really played with KDE since the
days of KDE4 (I always felt it was very 'crowded'/'not calm' as
opposed to gnome 2 back then, though when I just started Linux that
was what I liked about KDE3 all the distractions) but:

- Are you sure what you heard about the newer versions of Mageia is
not due to the Plasma project (KDE)? In which case you may have the
same issues no matter where you run.

- There probably is no distro out there that can't run KDE, when
people above write it was 'dropped' that just means that it's no
longer supported/tested/customized by the distro but unless they are
also completely autonomous in packaging/FS layout etc it will still be
installable and probably even available through normal channels.

- if you're open to Debian/Debian based you should check out Kubuntu
or Debian itself (for desktop I always felt *buntu 'feels' more
rounded)
 + *buntu has the LTS long-release cycles and the standard 6 month
cycle, updating from version to version tends to be painless
 + Debian due to it's long release cycle can be pretty outdated unless
you go into the rolling release versions
(testing/unstable/experimental) which sometimes break.

- if you want to stick with RPM based Fedora or SUSe should be nice
(Fedora tends to be pretty bleeding edge)

- If you are open to a more or less rolling release Arch or gentoo may
be interesting to you.

- Your hardware should be perfectly capable of handling any modern DE
but if you do want lighter stuff you have XFCE4, MATE (gnome2) and
LXDE are nice options.

HTH,
Eliyahu - ?????

2017-11-19 10:43 GMT+02:00 Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com>:
> Interesting info about Mint (and yes I checked - what you wrote is
> accurate). I don't think politics and software should mix, but NO WAY
> I'll even consider Mint now. :-)
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:18:47 +0200
> Geoffrey Mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
>> anti-semite. He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF
>> because it violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is
>> impossible, because many of the maintainers of all distros use code
>> from Israel, and most of the people here serve milluim.
>>
>> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
>> if you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who
>> control the world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was
>> called out on his slap in the face apologies,  he deleted all the
>> relevant blog postings.
>>
>> Geoff.
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il


From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 11:46:14 2017
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (Geoffrey Mendelson)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 11:46:14 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAHTx_BNWQGHxr97ftAeN-do0-Y_0v5xtp53sUyaoRZZt86dCBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119104314.588db269@shlomo1.solomon>
 <CAHTx_BNWQGHxr97ftAeN-do0-Y_0v5xtp53sUyaoRZZt86dCBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6c5e0412-db6d-e357-ce99-5f6c38dcf740@gmail.com>

On 11/19/2017 11:15 AM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:
>   + *buntu has the LTS long-release cycles and the standard 6 month
> cycle, updating from version to version tends to be painless

The problem with Ubuntu's LTS, is as it gets older, they only do 
security updates, so it really is no longer useful. Eventually it gets 
to the point that the particular package you want to install manually 
won't go because it depends upon many libraries that are newer than what 
you have.

Geoff.
-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel


From shlomif at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 11:50:30 2017
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 11:50:30 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
Message-ID: <CANy4znW5qb=Ybt3FZrdJeiLR9L+tL7wX54gg=SMDRcApcREKNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Shlomo!

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
>
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>
>
Mageia 6 works well for many people. Its release was delayed due to some
grave problems which we wanted to fix, and we did. What I suggest is that
you try upgrading to mageia 6 (after doing a backup) and see if it is
working well enough for you, and if not - possibly try a fresh install and
only then make a switch.


> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.
>
> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>
> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?
>

I use fedora 27 on my laptop and it is nice (but not perfect). One thing I
dislike about ubuntu is the weird politically correctness they have on
their IRC channels. Regarding mint there is
https://www.facebook.com/groups/826292814153064/permalink/1497333690382303/
. Debian is another option to consider, and it has many derivatives. There
is also openSUSE.


>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

You can never truly appreciate The Gilmore Girls until you've watched it in
the original Klingon.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From shlomif at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 11:59:59 2017
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 11:59:59 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CANM5d8eBEvtjWiBUw862QBRka1+XhvLC_91YMT88YAh4sxcKbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <CABKuJEB4K70JDkngs2U3=v0-qRYGL8VpZR8Z7Fmn8n2ohOawew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANM5d8eBEvtjWiBUw862QBRka1+XhvLC_91YMT88YAh4sxcKbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy4znWz82BGgVoJ45vyoKM+jdKvUTycwhVas-q95kw8k_pAvw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Shay Gover <govershay at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mint has dropped the KDE version.
>
> What about arch?
>
>
Regarding Arch Linux, see
https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il/msg65850.html .


> On Nov 19, 2017 10:22, "Rabin Yasharzadehe" <rabin at rabin.io> wrote:
>
>> I like to go with Fedora MATE spin as I find it resource friendly.
>> and I use compiz as my window manager to have a very robust features and
>> some eye candy features as well.
>>
>> Fedora move fast and have a short release cycle (6 month),
>> so having to deal with new stuff each 6 month can be a burden for someone
>> how just want his computer to work.
>> in that case I'll recommend a distro which is based on Ubuntu LTS e,g
>> Ubuntu MATE.
>>
>> MATE desktop dose not support HiDPI display yet, unlike KDE and Gnome3
>> but if you prefer to use KDE, both Fedoa and Ubuntu have a spin of it.
>>
>> there is also KDE neon which uses a stable base of the OS (Ubuntu LTS
>> IIRC),
>> and all the KDE stuff are coming directly from upstream (rolling)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rabin
>>
>> On 19 November 2017 at 09:54, Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
>>>
>>> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
>>> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
>>> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
>>> making.
>>>
>>> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship.
>>>
>>> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
>>> like how configurable Mageia is.
>>>
>>> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
>>> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
>>>
>>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
>>> additional options)?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shlomo Solomon
>>> http://the-solomons.net
>>> Claws Mail 3.11.1 - KDE 4.14.30 - Dolphin 4.14.3 - LINUX Mageia 5
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

You can never truly appreciate The Gilmore Girls until you've watched it in
the original Klingon.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Sun Nov 19 13:28:59 2017
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 12:28:59 +0100
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>

Off-topic:

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:18:47AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
> On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:

> 
> 
> > I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> > additional options)?
> 
> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic anti-semite. He
> demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it violently
> oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because many of the
> maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of the people here
> serve milluim.
> 
> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but if you
> can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control the
> world.? You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on his slap
> in the face apologies,? he deleted all the relevant blog postings.

He made such an ill-informed decleration long ago (some 10 years ago?).
If he tries to distance himself from Israel, he's not doing a very good
job: the "Partners" page on linuxmint.com[1] clearly lists CompuLab, a
long-time partner (they OEM the "mintBox") with an Israeli flag.

[1] https://www.linuxmint.com/partners.php

Please don't continue spreading this mis-information. Clem made a
mistake long ago. Let's move on.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From _ at yuv.al  Sun Nov 19 14:16:36 2017
From: _ at yuv.al (Yuval Adam)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 14:16:36 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
Message-ID: <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>

While we're off-topic and discussing misinformation, it's important to
note that being anti Israeli policies (military occupation of Palestine
in this case) is not being anti-semitic.

Some Zionists seem to be confused about the fact that it's possible to
hold strong opinions against immoral and unjust actions taken by the
state without those opinions being founded in racism.

Of course if such racist claims were made directly that's definitely a
problem.

On 11/19/2017 01:28 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> Off-topic:
> 
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:18:47AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
>> On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
>>> additional options)?
>>
>> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic anti-semite. He
>> demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it violently
>> oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because many of the
>> maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of the people here
>> serve milluim.
>>
>> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but if you
>> can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control the
>> world.? You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on his slap
>> in the face apologies,? he deleted all the relevant blog postings.
> 
> He made such an ill-informed decleration long ago (some 10 years ago?).
> If he tries to distance himself from Israel, he's not doing a very good
> job: the "Partners" page on linuxmint.com[1] clearly lists CompuLab, a
> long-time partner (they OEM the "mintBox") with an Israeli flag.
> 
> [1] https://www.linuxmint.com/partners.php
> 
> Please don't continue spreading this mis-information. Clem made a
> mistake long ago. Let's move on.
> 


From shlomif at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 16:15:57 2017
From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:15:57 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
Message-ID: <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all!

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Yuval Adam <_ at yuv.al> wrote:

> While we're off-topic and discussing misinformation, it's important to
> note that being anti Israeli policies (military occupation of Palestine
> in this case) is not being anti-semitic.
>
> Some Zionists seem to be confused about the fact that it's possible to
> hold strong opinions against immoral and unjust actions taken by the
> state without those opinions being founded in racism.
>
> Of course if such racist claims were made directly that's definitely a
> problem.
>
>
just wanted to note that I agree in principle. Not every criticism of
certain Israeli policies is anti-Semitic. I've written about it in the past
here - http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/politics/define-zionism/ .


> On 11/19/2017 01:28 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> > Off-topic:
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:18:47AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
> >> On 11/19/2017 9:54 AM, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> >>> additional options)?
> >>
> >> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
> anti-semite. He
> >> demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF because it
> violently
> >> oppresses the Palestinian people. That is impossible, because many of
> the
> >> maintainers of all distros use code from Israel, and most of the people
> here
> >> serve milluim.
> >>
> >> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
> if you
> >> can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who control the
> >> world.  You probably can't find them, as when he was called out on his
> slap
> >> in the face apologies,  he deleted all the relevant blog postings.
> >
> > He made such an ill-informed decleration long ago (some 10 years ago?).
> > If he tries to distance himself from Israel, he's not doing a very good
> > job: the "Partners" page on linuxmint.com[1] clearly lists CompuLab, a
> > long-time partner (they OEM the "mintBox") with an Israeli flag.
> >
> > [1] https://www.linuxmint.com/partners.php
> >
> > Please don't continue spreading this mis-information. Clem made a
> > mistake long ago. Let's move on.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/

You can never truly appreciate The Gilmore Girls until you've watched it in
the original Klingon.

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 18:15:37 2017
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (Geoffrey Mendelson)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 18:15:37 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>

On 11/19/2017 4:15 PM, Shlomi Fish wrote:
>
> just wanted to note that I agree in principle. Not every criticism of 
> certain Israeli policies is anti-Semitic. I've written about it in the 
> past here - 
> http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/politics/define-zionism/ .

so do I, in fact, I think it is reasonable to assume that no Israeli 
completely agrees with the government on all things.

However if you can find his original "apology", there is no doubt that 
he was (is) an antisemite. I am paraphrasing here, but it was an apology 
for upsetting the Jews that rule the world (I think powers that be was 
the exact wording). He was very bitter about being censured.

As for moving on, I have, on to another less political distro.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel
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From efraim at flashner.co.il  Sun Nov 19 19:17:27 2017
From: efraim at flashner.co.il (Efraim Flashner)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 19:17:27 +0200
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
Message-ID: <20171119171727.GB991@macbook41>

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 09:54:42AM +0200, Shlomo Solomon wrote:
> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
> 
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
> 
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship. 
> 
> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.
> 
> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old (a
> 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).
> 
> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?
> 

Another option I've heard good things about is KDE Neon. It's the latest
KDE on top of Ubuntu LTS.

I've recently switched from Debian to Guix after using it for more than
5 years. Currently there is work in Guix to get a working KDE desktop
but there isn't yet.

-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim at flashner.co.il>   ????? ?????
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted
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From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Sun Nov 19 20:07:35 2017
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 13:07:35 -0500
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
Message-ID: <20171119130735.0a65a153@mydesk.domain.cxm>

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:54:42 +0200
Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't want to start a Distro war, but ...
> 
> I've been on Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia for over 17!!!! years, but from
> what I've read, there are quite a few problems with Mageia 6 (I'm
> still on 5), and it's really strange that it's been 2 years in the
> making.
> 
> So I'm thinking about abandoning ship. 
> 
> I definitely want to stay with KDE (never liked Gnome) and I really
> like how configurable Mageia is.

Have you considered other WMDEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environments)?
Many excellent ones exist.

> I don't think this should be an issue, but my computer is fairly old
> (a 4 year old i5 Haswell CPU with 8 Gb).

I have Void Linux running on my 2006 2GB RAM dualcore Acer laptop,
using the LXDE WMDE, and except for starting programs, this thing's
pretty snappy. Youtube on Firefox 57 runs without a stutter on a slow
wifi.

> I've been thinking about Mint, Kubuntu or Fedora - any thoughts (or
> additional options)?

Void Linux. Efficient, stable, easy to understand and administer
without graphical config tools.

By the way, whatever distro you get, you should install dmenu, make a
wrapper script to change it to a vertical menu, and set an easy hotkey
to it. Fastest way to run programs.

HTH,

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust


From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Sun Nov 19 20:19:24 2017
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 13:19:24 -0500
Subject: Distro recommendation
In-Reply-To: <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20171119131924.096da560@mydesk.domain.cxm>

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:18:47 +0200
Geoffrey Mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:


> Linux Mint was developed and maintained by a raving lunatic
> anti-semite. He demanded that his work had nothing to do with the IDF
> because it violently oppresses the Palestinian people. That is
> impossible, because many of the maintainers of all distros use code
> from Israel, and most of the people here serve milluim.
> 
> He was eventually chastised to the point he claims he apologized, but
> if you can find his apologies, it was for setting off the Jews who
> control the world.? You probably can't find them, as when he was
> called out on his slap in the face apologies,? he deleted all the
> relevant blog postings.

I'm proud to be one of the ones who called him out, first by private
email, and then when blown off, publically.

http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200908/200908.htm#_The_Politics_of_Free_Software:_Pet_predjudices
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust


From slitt at troubleshooters.com  Sun Nov 19 20:42:16 2017
From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 13:42:16 -0500
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 18:15:37 +0200
Geoffrey Mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

[very offtopic]
> As for moving on, I have, on to another less political distro.
> 
> Geoff.

I was in the process of converting all my and my family's computers to
Mint when I heard about Clem's litmus test. I switched to Ubuntu,
causing myself quite a bit of extra work undoing new Mint installations.

I quit publically criticizing Mint over that affair five years ago, and
in fact they haven't done anything stupid since 2009. But I still have
a bad taste in my mouth, so I personally don't use or recommend Mint.

Kind of like I don't buy Volkswagens. Or Mel Gibson movies. I wouldn't
enjoy driving the former or watching the latter.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust


From yeh at uda.co.il  Mon Nov 20 07:27:19 2017
From: yeh at uda.co.il (Yehuda Deutsch)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 07:27:19 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
 <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>
Message-ID: <CAAnGLd0vzsOmk_sqYewKdsEn-Ow+c7yzp31j9c4UV4c1RMpRDg@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see an issue in clem's views, as long that it stays off the
community's ground.
His apology for mixing open source with politics is here:
https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=775

I have no idea if this will fuel or calm things, but there is an archived
talk sub-page on wikipedia on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Linux_Mint/Archive_Israel-Palestine_Controversy

I find mint to be very useful, both for "professional" and "home" users. I
tried ubuntu for a while, it left a bitterer taste than any other distro i
tried before.

Yehuda

------------------------------
*Yehuda Deutsch | IT Developer*

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>
wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 18:15:37 +0200
> Geoffrey Mendelson <geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [very offtopic]
> > As for moving on, I have, on to another less political distro.
> >
> > Geoff.
>
> I was in the process of converting all my and my family's computers to
> Mint when I heard about Clem's litmus test. I switched to Ubuntu,
> causing myself quite a bit of extra work undoing new Mint installations.
>
> I quit publically criticizing Mint over that affair five years ago, and
> in fact they haven't done anything stupid since 2009. But I still have
> a bad taste in my mouth, so I personally don't use or recommend Mint.
>
> Kind of like I don't buy Volkswagens. Or Mel Gibson movies. I wouldn't
> enjoy driving the former or watching the latter.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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From w1 at zak.co.il  Mon Nov 20 10:08:40 2017
From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 10:08:40 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <CAAnGLd0vzsOmk_sqYewKdsEn-Ow+c7yzp31j9c4UV4c1RMpRDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
 <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>
 <CAAnGLd0vzsOmk_sqYewKdsEn-Ow+c7yzp31j9c4UV4c1RMpRDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1511165320.16343.85.camel@zak.co.il>

I searched the English Wikipedia and found in its articles no mention of
the Israel-Palestine controversy as it pertains to Linux Mint.

There is neither mention of it in the Linux Mint article nor as a
separate article.

According to my findings:

    People, who would like to read about the controversy,
    would not find information about it in the English
    Wikipedia.

Form your opinions about the above fact.

--- Omer



On Mon, 2017-11-20 at 07:27 +0200, Yehuda Deutsch wrote:
> I don't see an issue in clem's views, as long that it stays off the
> community's ground.
> His apology for mixing open source with politics is here:
> https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=775
> 
> 
> I have no idea if this will fuel or calm things, but there is an
> archived talk sub-page on wikipedia on the subject:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Linux_Mint/Archive_Israel-Palestine_Controversy
> 
> 
> 
> I find mint to be very useful, both for "professional" and "home"
> users. I tried ubuntu for a while, it left a bitterer taste than any
> other distro i tried before.


-- 
42 is the answer to everything.  Food is the answer to everything except
obesity.
My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html



From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Mon Nov 20 10:58:03 2017
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (Geoffrey Mendelson)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 10:58:03 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <1511165320.16343.85.camel@zak.co.il>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
 <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>
 <CAAnGLd0vzsOmk_sqYewKdsEn-Ow+c7yzp31j9c4UV4c1RMpRDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1511165320.16343.85.camel@zak.co.il>
Message-ID: <7e81d36e-2757-6c28-70df-f333afe00afc@gmail.com>

On 11/20/2017 10:08 AM, Omer Zak wrote:
> I searched the English Wikipedia and found in its articles no mention of
> the Israel-Palestine controversy as it pertains to Linux Mint.
>
> There is neither mention of it in the Linux Mint article nor as a
> separate article.
>
> According to my findings:
>
>      People, who would like to read about the controversy,
>      would not find information about it in the English
>      Wikipedia.
>
> Form your opinions about the above fact.
The English Wikipedia does not mention the Israel-Palestine controversy 
as it applies to Open Office either.

Geoff.
-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel


From str3l0k at gmail.com  Mon Nov 20 11:20:30 2017
From: str3l0k at gmail.com (Vladimir Vainer)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:20:30 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <7e81d36e-2757-6c28-70df-f333afe00afc@gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
 <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>
 <CAAnGLd0vzsOmk_sqYewKdsEn-Ow+c7yzp31j9c4UV4c1RMpRDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1511165320.16343.85.camel@zak.co.il>
 <7e81d36e-2757-6c28-70df-f333afe00afc@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACLWHfv0iZ6DmxTtnJCcGzyjKOxXRo-rTseJj21Kv_N0CuS+=w@mail.gmail.com>

Can you provide more information on  Israel-Palestine controversy as it
applies to Open Office?

Couldn't find anything on google either.
Thanks.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Geoffrey Mendelson <
geoffreymendelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/20/2017 10:08 AM, Omer Zak wrote:
>
>> I searched the English Wikipedia and found in its articles no mention of
>> the Israel-Palestine controversy as it pertains to Linux Mint.
>>
>> There is neither mention of it in the Linux Mint article nor as a
>> separate article.
>>
>> According to my findings:
>>
>>      People, who would like to read about the controversy,
>>      would not find information about it in the English
>>      Wikipedia.
>>
>> Form your opinions about the above fact.
>>
> The English Wikipedia does not mention the Israel-Palestine controversy as
> it applies to Open Office either.
>
> Geoff.
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>



-- 
If you can't explain it *simply*, you don't understand it well enough. -
Albert Einstein
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From geoffreymendelson at gmail.com  Mon Nov 20 11:56:13 2017
From: geoffreymendelson at gmail.com (Geoffrey Mendelson)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:56:13 +0200
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <CACLWHfv0iZ6DmxTtnJCcGzyjKOxXRo-rTseJj21Kv_N0CuS+=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20171119095442.1aea9532@shlomo1.solomon>
 <c7483d22-418a-5af3-3266-9eaef8f2915f@gmail.com>
 <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
 <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>
 <CAAnGLd0vzsOmk_sqYewKdsEn-Ow+c7yzp31j9c4UV4c1RMpRDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1511165320.16343.85.camel@zak.co.il>
 <7e81d36e-2757-6c28-70df-f333afe00afc@gmail.com>
 <CACLWHfv0iZ6DmxTtnJCcGzyjKOxXRo-rTseJj21Kv_N0CuS+=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5077040e-ad1f-7ea6-718c-c451abd331a5@gmail.com>

On 11/20/2017 11:20 AM, Vladimir Vainer wrote:
> Can you provide more information on ?Israel-Palestine controversy as 
> it applies to Open Office?

Time Line:

Arab League passes a boycott of Israel. (this will become important later)

Oslo accords create Palestinian Authority.? The PA sends workers and 
medical patients to Israel, gets most of its water, electricity, food, 
cooking gas, building supplies, etc from Israel (no boycott).

Palestinians bombard Sderot with rockets and mortars.

Sderot builds underground kindergarden (gan)

Larry Ellison (CEO of Oracle) donates money to extend kindergarden with 
underground playground, one of many things in Israel he funded.

Palestinain businessman invites (and I assume pays) RMS to speak on 
FOSS. He requires that RMS does not speak in Israel or meet with 
israelis on that trip. Note that RMS could have flown to Aman, taken a 
taxi to the Alenby Bridge and a Palestinian taxi to where he wanted to 
in the P.A. without ever entering Israel.

RMS chooses to fly to Ben Gurion and enter the PA via Israel.

RMS announces, using his email account as President of the FSF that he 
will honor the (nonexistent (see above)) boycott of Israel.

Oracle was going to divest its interest in Open Office. The original 
plan was to donate it to the FSF.

Ellison (obviously upset by RMS's boycott) donates Open Office to the 
Apache Foundation.

almost irrelevant notes, but provide context:

There is no PA boycott of Israel. The Palestinian BDS movement was 
created and is run by a graduate student at Tel Aviv University.

RMS did in fact meet with Israelis (and I don't remember if there were 
formal speeches) on that trip.

Geoff.




-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Jerusalem, Israel
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From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Mon Nov 20 12:45:59 2017
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:45:59 +0100
Subject: "antisemitic" Linux Mint [was: Re: Distro recommendation]
In-Reply-To: <5077040e-ad1f-7ea6-718c-c451abd331a5@gmail.com>
References: <20171119112858.zhggwxfbsbzcbpzm@lemon.cohens.org.il>
 <0a315406-f37d-e4e6-213f-8243687b20a5@yuv.al>
 <CANy4znWTLXE1pC1As0j3B4bP-S7deuWe-b3zmorEUxGdJVc8Cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <05ec3834-eba3-ca01-fe1f-363d06745603@gmail.com>
 <20171119134216.35bd8372@mydesk.domain.cxm>
 <CAAnGLd0vzsOmk_sqYewKdsEn-Ow+c7yzp31j9c4UV4c1RMpRDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1511165320.16343.85.camel@zak.co.il>
 <7e81d36e-2757-6c28-70df-f333afe00afc@gmail.com>
 <CACLWHfv0iZ6DmxTtnJCcGzyjKOxXRo-rTseJj21Kv_N0CuS+=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5077040e-ad1f-7ea6-718c-c451abd331a5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20171120104559.dpjpd6ljolnfdjdh@lemon.cohens.org.il>

Complementing the time line:

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:56:13AM +0200, Geoffrey Mendelson wrote:
> On 11/20/2017 11:20 AM, Vladimir Vainer wrote:
> > Can you provide more information on ?Israel-Palestine controversy as it
> > applies to Open Office?
> 
> Time Line:
> 
> Arab League passes a boycott of Israel. (this will become important later)
> 
> Oslo accords create Palestinian Authority.? The PA sends workers and medical
> patients to Israel, gets most of its water, electricity, food, cooking gas,
> building supplies, etc from Israel (no boycott).
> 
> Palestinians bombard Sderot with rockets and mortars.
> 
> Sderot builds underground kindergarden (gan)
> 
> Larry Ellison (CEO of Oracle) donates money to extend kindergarden with
> underground playground, one of many things in Israel he funded.
> 

2010:

Jan: Oracle buys Sun (owner of OpenOffice.org). Renames it
OracleOpenOffice.

Sep: The majority of the developers community forks. LibreOffice is
born. They form The Document Foundation.

2011:

Apr: Oracle annonces it will abandon development of OpenOffice. At the
time LibreOffice has already turned out to be a more vibrant
alternative. But there was still something of a development community
behind the Oracle project (and a third, competing, one, led by former
OO.o developers).

Jun: Oracle announces it will move OpenOffice to the Apache Foundation.

> Palestinain businessman invites (and I assume pays) RMS to speak on FOSS. He
> requires that RMS does not speak in Israel or meet with israelis on that
> trip. Note that RMS could have flown to Aman, taken a taxi to the Alenby
> Bridge and a Palestinian taxi to where he wanted to in the P.A. without ever
> entering Israel.
> 
> RMS chooses to fly to Ben Gurion and enter the PA via Israel.
> 
> RMS announces, using his email account as President of the FSF that he will
> honor the (nonexistent (see above)) boycott of Israel.

RMS visited Israel in Jul-2011. He also gave two talks in Israel proper,
though not one of them was in a university.

> 
> Oracle was going to divest its interest in Open Office. The original plan
> was to donate it to the FSF.

Huh? Have you any evidence of that? Any mails exchanged from people at
Oracle with the FSF or whoever?

At the time IBM put pressure on Oracle to donate the code to Apache
instead of following the developers community (who eventually formed The
Document Foundation). The FSF had no real affiliation with the practical
fork of OO.o (ooo-build / go-oo), that has already established TDF as a
legal entity.

See e.g.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-the-heck-is-happening-with-openoffice-update/

> 
> Ellison (obviously upset by RMS's boycott) donates Open Office to the Apache
> Foundation.

This is not so clear to me.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen         | tzafrir at jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |                    | a Mutt's
tzafrir at cohens.org.il |                    |  best
tzafrir at debian.org    |                    | friend


From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 23 16:15:03 2017
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 18:15:03 +0400
Subject: After waking from suspend,
 USB devices are not recognized (Ubuntu 17.10)
Message-ID: <CAGASG3xkOJHtTR5ZBWpeoxTgyXAAZ0RotCXimvpBG+M6Ke-j+A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I noticed that my old mouse didn't work all the time, and figured it was
time to replace the mouse. Then I had trouble programming some Arduinos,
and figured I had a bad Arduino. It wasn't until my system failed to see a
thumb drive that I finally realized the common element here: After waking
from suspend, no devices plugged in to the USB ports are recognized.

$ uname -a
Linux x1 4.13.0-16-generic #19-Ubuntu SMP Wed Oct 11 18:35:14 UTC 2017
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Hardware details are at the end of this mail.

Here is the system in its failed state:

$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

$ lspci -nnk | grep -A2 USB
00:14.0 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP USB 3.0
xHCI Controller [8086:9d2f] (rev 21)
    Subsystem: Lenovo Sunrise Point-LP USB 3.0 xHCI Controller [17aa:2238]
    Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
00:14.2 Signal processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Sunrise
Point-LP

$ lsmod | grep usb
btusb                  45056  0
btrtl                  16384  1 btusb
btbcm                  16384  1 btusb
btintel                16384  1 btusb
bluetooth             540672  14 btrtl,btintel,bnep,btbcm,rfcomm,btusb
usbhid                 49152  0
hid                   118784  4 hid_sensor_hub,hid_generic,usb
hid,intel_ishtp_hid

After a reboot, when USB devices are recognized, the same commands look
like this:

$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 138a:0090 Validity Sensors, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 04f2:b5c1 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0a2b Intel Corp.
Bus 001 Device 006: ID 046d:c404 Logitech, Inc. TrackMan Wheel
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

$ lspci -nnk | grep -A2 USB
00:14.0 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP USB 3.0
xHCI Controller [8086:9d2f] (rev 21)
    Subsystem: Lenovo Sunrise Point-LP USB 3.0 xHCI Controller [17aa:2238]
    Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
00:14.2 Signal processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Sunrise
Point-LP

$ lsmod | grep usb
usbhid                 49152  0
btusb                  45056  0
btrtl                  16384  1 btusb
btbcm                  16384  1 btusb
btintel                16384  1 btusb
bluetooth             540672  31 btrtl,btintel,bnep,btbcm,rfcomm,btusb
hid                   118784  4 hid_sensor_hub,hid_generic,
usbhid,intel_ishtp_hid



I'm not much of an expert with USB and udev, so I did a bit of reading and
learned about udevadm. After a reboot, when USB is working,

$ sudo apt-get install udevadm

shows activity when I plug or unplug a USB device. After a suspend,
nothing.

I googled expressions like "usb not recognized after wake from suspend" and
didn't find anything useful.

I don't know enough about this part of the system to know where to look
next. What do you suggest I do next in order to determine where the problem
might be?

System info below.

Thanks in advance for any guidance,
Michael

$ inxi -Fx
System:    Host: x1 Kernel: 4.13.0-16-generic x86_64 bits: 64 gcc: 7.2.0
           Desktop: Gnome 3.26.2 (Gtk 3.22.25-0ubuntu1)
           Distro: Ubuntu Bionic Beaver (development branch)
Machine:   Device: laptop System: LENOVO product: 20FBCTO1WW v: ThinkPad X1
Carbon 4th serial: N/A
           Mobo: LENOVO model: 20FBCTO1WW v: SDK0J40709 WIN serial: N/A
           UEFI: LENOVO v: N1FET44W (1.18 ) date: 09/01/2016
Battery    BAT0: charge: 40.9 Wh 85.1% condition: 48.0/52.1 Wh (92%)
           model: SMP 00HW029 status: Charging
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i7-6600U (-HT-MCP-)
           arch: Skylake rev.3 cache: 4096 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 11232
           clock speeds: max: 3400 MHz 1: 2800 MHz 2: 2800 MHz 3: 2800 MHz
           4: 2800 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel HD Graphics 520 bus-ID: 00:02.0
           Display Server: wayland (X.Org 1.19.5 )
           drivers: modesetting (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: 1920x1080 at 59.96hz
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 520 (Skylake GT2)
           version: 4.5 Mesa 17.2.2 Direct Render: Yes
Audio:     Card Intel Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.13.0-16-generic
Network:   Card-1: Intel Ethernet Connection I219-LM
           driver: e1000e v: 3.2.6-k bus-ID: 00:1f.6
           IF: enp0s31f6 state: down mac: 54:ee:75:c2:96:f3
           Card-2: Intel Wireless 8260 driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 04:00.0
           IF: wlp4s0 state: up mac: f4:8c:50:5d:a8:6d
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 128.0GB (51.5% used)
           ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 model: INTEL_SSDPEKKW128G7 size: 128.0GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 101G used: 47G (49%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 17.04GB used: 0.00GB (0%)
           fs: swap dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3
RAID:      No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 45.0C mobo: N/A
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 0
Info:      Processes: 229 Uptime: 11 min Memory: 1785.4/15911.4MB
           Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 7.2.0
           Client: Shell (bash 4.4.121) inxi: 2.3.40
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From efraim at flashner.co.il  Fri Nov 24 00:38:15 2017
From: efraim at flashner.co.il (Efraim Flashner)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 00:38:15 +0200
Subject: After waking from suspend, USB devices are not recognized
 (Ubuntu 17.10)
In-Reply-To: <CAGASG3xkOJHtTR5ZBWpeoxTgyXAAZ0RotCXimvpBG+M6Ke-j+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASG3xkOJHtTR5ZBWpeoxTgyXAAZ0RotCXimvpBG+M6Ke-j+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20171123223815.GG991@macbook41>

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 06:15:03PM +0400, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I noticed that my old mouse didn't work all the time, and figured it was
> time to replace the mouse. Then I had trouble programming some Arduinos,
> and figured I had a bad Arduino. It wasn't until my system failed to see a
> thumb drive that I finally realized the common element here: After waking
> from suspend, no devices plugged in to the USB ports are recognized.
> 

Do you run powertop or tlp on your laptop? Sometimes those can cause
issues with the USB ports.

-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim at flashner.co.il>   ????? ?????
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted
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From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 09:45:11 2017
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:45:11 +0400
Subject: After waking from suspend,
 USB devices are not recognized (Ubuntu 17.10)
In-Reply-To: <20171123223815.GG991@macbook41>
References: <CAGASG3xkOJHtTR5ZBWpeoxTgyXAAZ0RotCXimvpBG+M6Ke-j+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20171123223815.GG991@macbook41>
Message-ID: <CAGASG3yJexnTLdFFz8M2XPaGVqaE2k=tdQucEb+oqJPEcOKqDw@mail.gmail.com>

Not powertop, but yes tlp. Very interesting. I will uninstall and see if
that solves the problem.

Another observation I just made: If I suspend the laptop with USB devices
plugged in, they are still detected when I restart.

I guess I could work around by leaving some small USB device plugged in
(one of those wireless mouse things) but obviously that's a real hack.
Still, the observation may be a hint as to what's going on or what I might
look at next.

I will disable TLP and report back.

Michael

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:38 AM, Efraim Flashner <efraim at flashner.co.il>
wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 06:15:03PM +0400, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I noticed that my old mouse didn't work all the time, and figured it was
> > time to replace the mouse. Then I had trouble programming some Arduinos,
> > and figured I had a bad Arduino. It wasn't until my system failed to see
> a
> > thumb drive that I finally realized the common element here: After waking
> > from suspend, no devices plugged in to the USB ports are recognized.
> >
>
> Do you run powertop or tlp on your laptop? Sometimes those can cause
> issues with the USB ports.
>
> --
> Efraim Flashner   <efraim at flashner.co.il>   ????? ?????
> GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
> Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted
>
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From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 17:51:02 2017
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:51:02 +0400
Subject: After waking from suspend,
 USB devices are not recognized (Ubuntu 17.10)
In-Reply-To: <CAGASG3yJexnTLdFFz8M2XPaGVqaE2k=tdQucEb+oqJPEcOKqDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASG3xkOJHtTR5ZBWpeoxTgyXAAZ0RotCXimvpBG+M6Ke-j+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20171123223815.GG991@macbook41>
 <CAGASG3yJexnTLdFFz8M2XPaGVqaE2k=tdQucEb+oqJPEcOKqDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGASG3yXuY2o2jHwDNjMJPPo6gcms_+WxuDv9hLbcUVUyHN-Lg@mail.gmail.com>

Very interesting. After removing TLP the problem seems to have gone away. I
am now able to enjoy USB peripherals again. Thanks!

I'd love to understand why, though.

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Michael Shiloh <
michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not powertop, but yes tlp. Very interesting. I will uninstall and see if
> that solves the problem.
>
> Another observation I just made: If I suspend the laptop with USB devices
> plugged in, they are still detected when I restart.
>
> I guess I could work around by leaving some small USB device plugged in
> (one of those wireless mouse things) but obviously that's a real hack.
> Still, the observation may be a hint as to what's going on or what I might
> look at next.
>
> I will disable TLP and report back.
>
> Michael
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:38 AM, Efraim Flashner <efraim at flashner.co.il>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 06:15:03PM +0400, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I noticed that my old mouse didn't work all the time, and figured it was
>> > time to replace the mouse. Then I had trouble programming some Arduinos,
>> > and figured I had a bad Arduino. It wasn't until my system failed to
>> see a
>> > thumb drive that I finally realized the common element here: After
>> waking
>> > from suspend, no devices plugged in to the USB ports are recognized.
>> >
>>
>> Do you run powertop or tlp on your laptop? Sometimes those can cause
>> issues with the USB ports.
>>
>> --
>> Efraim Flashner   <efraim at flashner.co.il>   ????? ?????
>> GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
>> Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received
>> unencrypted
>>
>
>
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From _ at yuv.al  Fri Nov 24 18:06:31 2017
From: _ at yuv.al (Yuval Adam)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 18:06:31 +0200
Subject: After waking from suspend, USB devices are not recognized (Ubuntu
 17.10)
In-Reply-To: <CAGASG3yXuY2o2jHwDNjMJPPo6gcms_+WxuDv9hLbcUVUyHN-Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASG3xkOJHtTR5ZBWpeoxTgyXAAZ0RotCXimvpBG+M6Ke-j+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20171123223815.GG991@macbook41>
 <CAGASG3yJexnTLdFFz8M2XPaGVqaE2k=tdQucEb+oqJPEcOKqDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASG3yXuY2o2jHwDNjMJPPo6gcms_+WxuDv9hLbcUVUyHN-Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50c8ad7d-270d-d58c-e914-3091c61367fd@yuv.al>

This might help:

http://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-configuration.html#usb

On 11/24/2017 05:51 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> Very interesting. After removing TLP the problem seems to have gone
> away. I am now able to enjoy USB peripherals again. Thanks!
> 
> I'd love to understand why, though.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Michael Shiloh
> <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com <mailto:michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Not powertop, but yes tlp. Very interesting. I will uninstall and
>     see if that solves the problem.
> 
>     Another observation I just made: If I suspend the laptop with USB
>     devices plugged in, they are still detected when I restart.
> 
>     I guess I could work around by leaving some small USB device plugged
>     in (one of those wireless mouse things) but obviously that's a real
>     hack. Still, the observation may be a hint as to what's going on or
>     what I might look at next.
> 
>     I will disable TLP and report back.
> 
>     Michael
> 
>     On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:38 AM, Efraim Flashner
>     <efraim at flashner.co.il <mailto:efraim at flashner.co.il>> wrote:
> 
>         On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 06:15:03PM +0400, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>         > Hi,
>         >
>         > I noticed that my old mouse didn't work all the time, and figured it was
>         > time to replace the mouse. Then I had trouble programming some Arduinos,
>         > and figured I had a bad Arduino. It wasn't until my system failed to see a
>         > thumb drive that I finally realized the common element here: After waking
>         > from suspend, no devices plugged in to the USB ports are recognized.
>         >
> 
>         Do you run powertop or tlp on your laptop? Sometimes those can cause
>         issues with the USB ports.
> 
>         --
>         Efraim Flashner? ?<efraim at flashner.co.il
>         <mailto:efraim at flashner.co.il>>? ?????? ?????
>         GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D? 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
>         Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received
>         unencrypted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> 


From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 18:34:58 2017
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:34:58 +0400
Subject: After waking from suspend,
 USB devices are not recognized (Ubuntu 17.10)
In-Reply-To: <50c8ad7d-270d-d58c-e914-3091c61367fd@yuv.al>
References: <CAGASG3xkOJHtTR5ZBWpeoxTgyXAAZ0RotCXimvpBG+M6Ke-j+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20171123223815.GG991@macbook41>
 <CAGASG3yJexnTLdFFz8M2XPaGVqaE2k=tdQucEb+oqJPEcOKqDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGASG3yXuY2o2jHwDNjMJPPo6gcms_+WxuDv9hLbcUVUyHN-Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <50c8ad7d-270d-d58c-e914-3091c61367fd@yuv.al>
Message-ID: <CAGASG3zQh5OcECmx8p8K_OMBE5JM3mx=rDNp1Au0yCmDfA1iyg@mail.gmail.com>

Very interesting. Thanks Yuval.

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Yuval Adam <_ at yuv.al> wrote:

> This might help:
>
> http://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-configuration.html#usb
>
> On 11/24/2017 05:51 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > Very interesting. After removing TLP the problem seems to have gone
> > away. I am now able to enjoy USB peripherals again. Thanks!
> >
> > I'd love to understand why, though.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Michael Shiloh
> > <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com <mailto:michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >     Not powertop, but yes tlp. Very interesting. I will uninstall and
> >     see if that solves the problem.
> >
> >     Another observation I just made: If I suspend the laptop with USB
> >     devices plugged in, they are still detected when I restart.
> >
> >     I guess I could work around by leaving some small USB device plugged
> >     in (one of those wireless mouse things) but obviously that's a real
> >     hack. Still, the observation may be a hint as to what's going on or
> >     what I might look at next.
> >
> >     I will disable TLP and report back.
> >
> >     Michael
> >
> >     On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:38 AM, Efraim Flashner
> >     <efraim at flashner.co.il <mailto:efraim at flashner.co.il>> wrote:
> >
> >         On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 06:15:03PM +0400, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> >         > Hi,
> >         >
> >         > I noticed that my old mouse didn't work all the time, and
> figured it was
> >         > time to replace the mouse. Then I had trouble programming some
> Arduinos,
> >         > and figured I had a bad Arduino. It wasn't until my system
> failed to see a
> >         > thumb drive that I finally realized the common element here:
> After waking
> >         > from suspend, no devices plugged in to the USB ports are
> recognized.
> >         >
> >
> >         Do you run powertop or tlp on your laptop? Sometimes those can
> cause
> >         issues with the USB ports.
> >
> >         --
> >         Efraim Flashner   <efraim at flashner.co.il
> >         <mailto:efraim at flashner.co.il>>   ????? ?????
> >         GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
> >         Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received
> >         unencrypted
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-il mailing list
> > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
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