<div dir="ltr">Well, it depends.<div>State on CLI is not necessarily much more availible.</div><div>For example, when looking at a vim window, it is not immediately clear whether you're at: (1) vim edit mode, (2) vim regular mode (3) selecting something with screen, where your keyboard are now not even sent to the vim window.</div>
<div>I think it's more a matter of training. I'm a trained vim user, so I can see immediately through the subltle hints (cursor shape, etc.) which state am I in. And nevertheless, I find myself many times typing Ctrl+[ to reset the state, since it's faster for me to reset the state, than to figure out whether or not I'm in text mode.</div>
<div>OTOH I use at work the windows environment alot. And I found myself launching programs with launchy (no state needed here! In CLI I need to remember where would Ctrl+3 lead me, and whether or not I can exit the programs there. In windows there's no state, all the apps are Alt+Space away. Always), using the Winkey+Number to navigate between programs (again, no state in here, Winkey+3 gives the third app you launched, whereever you are).</div>
<div>Keyboard friendly programs also gives me a similar stateless feel. For instance, eclipse has the F12 key to bounce me back to the editor from many states (and all common states), and have Ctrl+3 to search for a specific command.</div>
<div><br></div><div>My main problem with GUI interfaces is their relative sluggishness/resource usage. A similar criticism was directed to emacs when computers were slower. I hope Moore's law would be able to handle it eventually.</div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Dov Grobgeld <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dov.grobgeld@gmail.com">dov.grobgeld@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">I think it there is something more subtle going on, and that is the concept of a state. The state is "where you are" and I feel the big difference between GUI and command line operation is in the latter, the state is available without heavy visual interaction. Once you have used the system enough, you "feel" the state, and you build a motoric memory for moving from one state to another. With GUI systems you never reach that proficiency and you have to do more guess work and more hunt and peck to move from state to state. It may be easier the first time to use a GUI, but the second and the third time, you'd be better off typing the command, because it is much more repeatable. <br>
<br>So the difference between Unix/Linux and Windows in this sense is that in Unix/Linux you have full control of the system from the command line where you can have this feeling for "where you are".<br><br>Anyhow, this is sliding into something that is quite far off from the original question.<br>
<br>Regards,<br><font color="#888888">Dov</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 08:06, Elazar Leibovich <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:elazarl@gmail.com" target="_blank">elazarl@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Writing an email without the screen is perfectly doable even within vanilla windows machine, with nothing installed.<div>Say, for XP: Windows key -> down down -> Enter [Now outlook is running] -> Ctrl+n -> write email address -> Tab Tab Tab -> write subject -> Tab -> Write Content -> Ctrl+Enter.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Not to mention how easier it is when launchy style programs are installed.</div><div><br></div><div>And in both systems it is impossible to do that unless you have a fairly good knowledge of the system (which email client is installed? Should you type mutt or pine? etc.)<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/3/14 Dov Grobgeld <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dov.grobgeld@gmail.com" target="_blank">dov.grobgeld@gmail.com</a>></span><div><div></div><div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 14:37, Jonathan Ben Avraham <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yba@tkos.co.il" target="_blank">yba@tkos.co.il</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote">
<div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Even a guy who just shows up with a Dvorak keyboard, no mouse and does everything inside of EMACS gets an offer.<br></blockquote></div><div><br>This more or less describes me, so do I get the job? :-) Also reminds me of the time a number of years ago when I had turned in my monitor for repair, and then returned home to my computer without a monitor. Just for the fun of it and to prove I don't know what, I turned the computer on, logged in, wrote an email of a page and a half, printed it out to see that I didn't make too many mistakes which I hadn't and then and sent it off. When I tell that story to Windows users, they don't even understand what I'm talking about.<br>
<br></div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
Good luck,<br>
<br>
- yba<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010, Dotan Cohen wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:34:04 +0200<br>
From: Dotan Cohen <<a href="mailto:dotancohen@gmail.com" target="_blank">dotancohen@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: linux-il. <<a href="mailto:linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il" target="_blank">linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Subject: Where to learn Linux?<div><br>
<br>
I have been using Linux as an end user for several years, but now I<br>
think that I might like to make a career out of *nix administration.<br>
Where are some good places to get a certificate from? Is an online<br>
certificate as good as an offline course? What online certificates are<br>
honourable? What real-world courses in Israel are recommended?<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></blockquote><font color="#888888">
<br>
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