<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Shlomi Fish <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shlomif@gmail.com" target="_blank">shlomif@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Ido,<br>
<div class="im"><br>
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 12:50 PM, ik <<a href="mailto:idokan@gmail.com">idokan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div><div><div class="h5">> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Dov Grobgeld <<a href="mailto:dov.grobgeld@gmail.com">dov.grobgeld@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> The advantage of using Qt or Gtk compared with some of the other gui<br>
>> toolkits mentioned (fltk, Tcl/Tk, SDL, or Matlab GUI) are that they are<br>
>> complete (lots of widgets, internationalization and localization support<br>
>> etc) if the prototype turns into something bigger than was initially<br>
>> envisioned. To often have I seen tools that were written like "oh, its's<br>
>> only for me" and then a company is trying to figure out how to deploy and<br>
>> support the tool. I therefore thing it is worth taking the time to learn<br>
>> complexity of one of these GUI's, and then use it.<br>
>><br>
>> The language is a separate issue from the GUI. The difference between Qt<br>
>> and Gtk is that Qt was from the beginning written to be tighly coupled with<br>
>> C++, whereas gtk (actually the glib model) was written so that it is easy to<br>
>> bind it to various languages. There is even a special GObject (the base<br>
>> class of gtk) dedicated language. See:<br>
>> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_%28programming_language%29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_%28programming_language%29</a> . True, there<br>
>> are some bindings to Qt, e.g. the official python binding PySide, but the<br>
>> huge amount of bindings to gtk shows that it is a much easier task.<br>
>><br>
>> In short, decide a language and a toolkit. Take time to learn it. It is<br>
>> well worth your time.<br>
><br>
><br>
> The thing is, that the approach I offered - Lazarus, contain support both to<br>
> Qt and GTK, but you do not care about it in any way, you just focus on your<br>
> task, on the libraries at hand. The libraries are only matter on compile and<br>
> deployment time, not on coding, you do not really use any GTK or Qt code,<br>
> but focus on an API that exists above this.<br>
<br>
</div></div>The problem is that Lazarus is based on Free Pascal, which may have<br>
problem wrapping C++ code which is what Oleg wanted originally.<br></blockquote><div><br>I might have misread it, but as I understand, he thinking on C++ because of the GUI.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im"><br>
><br>
> The "fight" aginst Qt vs GTK is nice when you need to focus yourself on<br>
> lower level development, not with tools that simplify things to you.<br>
<br>
</div>"Fight"?<br></blockquote><div><br>All other suggestions are either Qt vs GTK vs FLTK etc... <br>I offered to ignore the type of all of it.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im"><br>
> Vala, is a very stupid idea. it's a C# like language that is translated into<br>
> C and then built a native code.<br>
<br>
</div>Why is it a stupid idea? I recall re-implementing a small Perl program<br>
(which ran too slowly) in Vala, and it performed much better, so I was<br>
happy. I have not done any GUI programming in Vala, but translating<br>
something to C is a valid approach.<br></blockquote><div><br>If what you understood is true, and he is looking for a C++ solutions, why do you keep offering Python or Vala to him ?<br>If I understand it, then my solution is better, instead of using a language to help use a toolkit, I offer a language with tools <br>
that helps you develop GUI without the hassle of choosing the GUI toolkit, but to focus on your work, and think in DRY land ...<br><br>If he choose Glade with GTK, he needs to start to think in grid like way of writing.<br>
If he chooses Qt with Qt-Develop, he will need to write a template, and then focus on understanding Qt<br><br>I offer something different, different thinking, even know, without any knowledge of gui development, or even the programming language,<br>
a simple window, edit box, a button and a simple menu will take him less then 10 minutes. When he'll know to use it, it will take him 3-5 minutes tops.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im"><br>
> With Lazarus, you program in a real programming language, and instead of<br>
> using a middleware, you just cod your code, and the GUI is designed without<br>
> any line of code (unless you have to, or just want to do it like that).<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>Are you implying that Vala is not a "real" programming language?<br></blockquote><div><br><b>"Vala</b> is an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented" title="Object-oriented" class="mw-redirect">object-oriented</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language" title="Programming language">programming language</a> with a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hosting" title="Self-hosting">self-hosting</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiler" title="Compiler">compiler</a> that generates <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_%28programming_language%29" title="C (programming language)">C</a> code and uses the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GObject" title="GObject">GObject</a> system. "<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_%28programming_language%29">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_%28programming_language%29</a><br><br>It's a "descriptive" language for C, that was built to help you develop GUI for GTK, and looks too much like C# (it's actually cool language C#, much better then Java, but that's off topic).<br>
<br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
-- Shlomi Fish<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
--<br>
------------------------------------------<br>
Shlomi Fish <a href="http://www.shlomifish.org/" target="_blank">http://www.shlomifish.org/</a><br>
<br>
Electrical Engineering studies. In the Technion. Been there. Done<br>
that. Forgot a lot. Remember too much.<br>
<br>
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