<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Shlomi Fish</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shlomif@shlomifish.org">shlomif@shlomifish.org</a>></span><br>
Date: Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 10:27 PM<br>Subject: Fw: Does anyone use MATE (Gnome 2 fork)?<br>To: <a href="mailto:shlomif@gmail.com">shlomif@gmail.com</a><br><br><br><br>
<br>
Begin forwarded message:<br>
<br>
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 19:47:06 +0200<br>
From: Shlomi Fish <<a href="mailto:shlomif@shlomifish.org">shlomif@shlomifish.org</a>><br>
To: linux-il <<a href="mailto:linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il">linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Subject: Re: Does anyone use MATE (Gnome 2 fork)?<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Steve,<br>
<br>
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:36:35 -0500<br>
Steve Litt <<a href="mailto:slitt@troubleshooters.com">slitt@troubleshooters.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 18:06:43 +0200<br>
> Rami Rosen <<a href="mailto:rosenrami@gmail.com">rosenrami@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Hi,<br>
> > The main issues I encountered in last months in KDE are:<br>
> > 1) loads application slowly compared to Gnome.<br>
> > 2) sometimes KDE plasma crashes when I press on the Kickoff<br>
> > application launcher<br>
> > 3) the kwallet pop up annoys me (though I am sure it is trivial to<br>
> > get rid of this pop up)<br>
> ><br>
> > I wonder which other problems did you have with it ? KDE is quite<br>
> > veteran as you know.<br>
><br>
> This is such a cool thread I'm copying my local LUG...<br>
><br>
> My problems with KDE are described here:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm#_Steve_You_Sound_Angry" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm#_Steve_You_Sound_Angry</a><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm#_Escape_From_Kmail" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm#_Escape_From_Kmail</a><br>
><br>
> And more generally, through the whole document:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/201202.htm</a><br>
><br>
> Bottom line, for me, KDE stands for Krash, Delay, Expand.<br>
><br>
<br>
Well, I've been using KDE 4 (most recently 4.11.4) happily for some time<br>
now. It's certainly not perfect, but it's stable, usable, functional and looks<br>
great. I had had some problems with X crashing with an OpenGL errors after<br>
several hours of use, but I suspect it was caused by a graphics driver problem<br>
(I'm using my Core i3’s processor built-in Intel Graphics adapter) and this is<br>
now resolved (haven't had a crash for some time). What does happen is that<br>
sometimes the screen freezes/delays for a few noticable seconds, but then it<br>
resumes and everything is OK. (Possibly a graphics adaptor problem too).<br>
<br>
Seeing the anchor you gave, I agree that the conversion of KMail from KMail 1<br>
to the Akonadi-based KMail 2 was half-done, and as a result I ended up switching<br>
from KMail to claws-mail, which isn't perfect, but is at least very usable and<br>
lets me get my job done. But I usually use it on top of KDE.<br>
<br>
> > I did not try the other Display Managers. In case this problem with<br>
> > Gnome and JEdit losing focus will not be solved somehow (which I<br>
> > doubt it will), I will consider one of them (starting with Xfce).<br>
><br>
> Yes. There's a whole *world* of Display managers out there, beyond KDE,<br>
> Gnome and (urk) Unity. Actually, I would never use any of those three<br>
> for a display manager, and have removed every KDE library and program<br>
> from all my computers, for greatly improved stability and performance.<br>
><br>
<br>
You seem to be on a crusade to stamp out KDE usage by every people who tell<br>
you that they use it. Please consider the fact that KDE may work and work well<br>
for other people, and the world won’t come to harm just by them using it.<br>
“Live and let live.”.<br>
<br>
> Here are some of the display managers I've tried:<br>
><br>
> Xfce: Windows 95 type DM, capable of multiple panels (a panel is a<br>
> taskbar. Sometimes quirky, but probably the best of the bunch,<br>
> especially if you like having a start menu. Even if you don't use<br>
> Xfce, download it so you can use the xfce4-appfinder program,<br>
> which is a great way to find and launch programs. I use Xfce on<br>
> all my laptops.<br>
<br>
I agree that XFCE is a bit quirky, and I prefer LXDE (but I’m not sure exactly<br>
why).<br>
<br>
><br>
> LXDE: The most stable taskbar/startmenu type interface I've ever found.<br>
> Wonderful software whose only problems are: 1) only 1 panel<br>
> possible, and 2) very slow mouse compared to other window<br>
> managers. Problem #2 is best solved by using an optical mouse on<br>
> a very clean surface.<br>
><br>
<br>
I think the speed of the mouse is configurable everywhere. I Remember playing<br>
with the mouse pointer speed in some cases. LXDE is nice, but I noticed it has<br>
problems updating the window previews in the taskbar’s pager (though there may<br>
be a patch for it in the development version - not sure). I was told the pager<br>
suffered from a lot of neglect even though many people use it.<br>
<br>
> IceWM: Old School Windows 95 type interface. Works well, not maintained<br>
> very well, but still available and still works. I used it for<br>
> five years and liked it a lot.<br>
><br>
<br>
I think there's also <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWM" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWM</a> . I think I tried it,<br>
after packaging it for Mageia, and it seemed mostly OK. It’s more actively<br>
maintained than IceWM.<br>
<br>
> OpenBox: Keystroke driven, no start button, no panel/taskbar. Very<br>
> stable. You need to develop other techniques, driven by<br>
> hotkeys, which are easy to implement using an editor, to<br>
> compensate for lack of a start button. I currently use this<br>
> interface on my daily driver desktop. There are a few user<br>
> interface hassles caused by lack of a taskbar, but then again,<br>
> I have xfce4-appfinder to launch stuff, and I have gkrellm on<br>
> workspace 1 to tell the time and date and stuff. OpenBox is an<br>
> acquired taste: I like it. By the way, DO NOT use OpenBox if<br>
> you want other people to successfully operate your computer.<br>
><br>
<br>
Openbox is also used as the underlying window manager of LXDE. There's also<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluxbox" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluxbox</a> .<br>
<br>
> Awesome: Lua driven, Lua configured tiling desktop environment. I tried<br>
> it, but didn't like it. I've seen guys who are good with<br>
> hotkeys and configuration make Awesome walk and talk. DO NOT<br>
> use this WM if you want other people to be able to use your<br>
> computer.<br>
<br>
I'm not a fan of tiling window managers.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Sawfish: I think a long time ago this window manager<br>
> was associated with Gnome. IIRC it's a Windows 95 type window<br>
> manager.<br>
<br>
I think Sawfish’s main selling point was its configurability with a custom<br>
dialect of Lisp.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Enlightenment: Similar to Sawfish, as I remember.<br>
><br>
<br>
Enlightenment is configurable as well, and also aims for very good aesthetics.<br>
However, I found it somewhat quirky and unusable to use when I tried it, and<br>
ended up returning to KDE. On the bright side, according to<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_%28window_manager%29" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_%28window_manager%29</a> E 0.18<br>
(FINAL) was released three days ago just in time for Christmas. After that and<br>
the release of MPlayer 1.1, we now have one less vapourware package to joke<br>
about.<br>
<br>
> Fvwm: If your one and only priority is light weight and good stability,<br>
> this is your Window Manager. It's the only one I've personally<br>
> gotten to work right on OpenBSD. It's a gift from heaven if<br>
> you're working on a 256MB RAM machine. This is like a less user<br>
> friendly version of OpenBox, so you'd better be ready to spend<br>
> some time tailoring your work habits to it, and setting up<br>
> hotkeys and workspaces. By the way, this is the only WM I've<br>
> found whose workspaces are a 2 dimensional array. One of my<br>
> buddies has 64 workspaces, knows which workspaces always contain<br>
> what programs, and works quite successfully like that.<br>
<br>
I saw a screenshot of JWM running on OpenBSD on Wikipedia.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Fluxbox, Blackbox: Similar to OpenBox, but I personally don't like them<br>
> as well. YMMV<br>
><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Shlomi Fish<br>
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