Google Chrome vs. Firebox or good old Internet Explorer?

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Uri!

Just a note - please break your E-mails into paragraphs better, and please be 
less passionate-sounding and more informative. I find it hard to communicate 
with you.

On Sunday 20 Dec 2009 13:53:30 Uri Even-Chen wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Shlomi Fish <shlomif at iglu.org.il> wrote:
> > On Sunday 20 Dec 2009 13:13:01 Uri Even-Chen wrote:
> >> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> >> >> I also have a problem with Bank Hapoalim on Firefox.  The numbers are
> >> >> switched, instead of "(1) דואר נכנס" I get "דואר נכנס )1(" (the
> >> >> number is on the right) and instead of "(25) סל מיחזור" I get "רוזחימ
> >> >> לס )52(" - I get 52 instead of 25.
> >> >
> >> > It sounds like they are using visual encoding, which makes them
> >> > idiots. You will find that leads to problems in IE, too, like
> >> > searching in the browser or copying text.
> >>
> >> They save time and money by not checking browsers such as Google
> >> Chrome and Firefox. I worked once in a web developing company, and
> >> they told me their contract with the customer is that the website
> >> works with Internet Explorer only.  They told me not to check the
> >> website with Firefox!  They don't care, the customer doesn't pay for
> >> checking with Firefox and they don't check it at all.  Most web
> >> developing companies work like that.  Banks too, they hire web
> >> developers (sometimes outsourcing) and they pay them to make the site
> >> look fine with Internet Explorer.  They don't bother to check with
> >> Google Chrome, Opera, Firefox, although it's only about 10% more of
> >> the developing time.  They save money!
> >
> > You're describing a situation that may have been "true" (and I'm putting
> > "true" in quotes) a few years ago. But right now, you must be either very
> > clueless or out-of-your-mind or both to not support Firefox and other
> > more standards-compliant browsers. While it is true that MSIE still has
> > an 80% market share (possibly less by now - it keeps losing it), as
> > someone noted to me on IRC, this is the bottom 80% of the web surfers. By
> > all means, you do wish to cater to the more clueful people who are using
> > Firefox and other "alternative" browsers.
> >
> > Furthermore, there are other factors:
> >
> > 1. Web designers who test their pages in Firefox and design according to
> > web standards tend to be more clueful than their FrontPage weenies
> > counterparts, and as a result produce better, more sustainable and safer
> > code.
> >
> > 2. You are likely to lose customers who will refuse to switch to MSIE to
> > browse your site, or have to handle many complaints from people that your
> > web- site does not work for them.
> >
> > 3. Your pages may easily break with newer versions of MSIE, which will
> > require update.
> >
> > 4. There are other advantages:
> >
> > http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/by-others/mashhoor--10-reasons--
> > hebrew.html
> >
> > (short URL - http://xrl.us/bgpzhg )
> >
> > -------------
> >
> > So they are not saving money in the long run or even not in the short
> > run.
> 
> If they were not saving money, they wouldn't do it at all!  Money is
> the reason why they do it, like I said they save maybe 10% or 15% of
> the total web developing time, and I agree they save money only in
> short terms, but that's how businesses work!  

How do you know they are actually saving money? Maybe it's a bad decision and 
they are losing money. Businesses are making bad decisions that lose them 
money all the time, and we are allowed to question them.

> They don't care about
> 20% of the users, 

They should. These are the top 20% of the users. I switched banks because my 
old bank's web-site did not support Firefox, which was probably indicative of 
many other problems with it. Losing 20% of the users just because you don't 
want to test on Firefox (which actually makes you lose web-development money, 
and even if it did have some added cost, would be completely worth it in the 
added constant sales and usage of the site later on - a site serves a purpose 
and is not an end in itself), is a bad business decision.

> I told you the website of Bank Hapoalim, the biggest
> bank in the country, has problems with Firefox and Google Chrome.
> With Firefox it's minor problems, but still there are problems which
> they could solve!  And with Google Chrome it's a more annoying
> problem.  They don't care about standards, 

Then they are stupid.

> if they don't pay web
> developers to test other browsers then they don't test at all!  I
> prefer Internet Explorer as an end user, as a developer I always test
> at least Firefox, for example you can check www.speedywhois.net and
> see for yourself.  But if I work as an employee, and my boss tells me
> not to test Firefox - I don't have a choice.  I can't do things
> against my boss!

Yes, you can't. But then the problem is with your boss, and I am allowed to 
criticise their decisions. You are also allowed to quit because you know it 
may not end well, and will look bad on your future C.V..

> 
> By the way, I tried to report to the bank, they gave me a captcha, (I
> hate captchas), I made a mistake and they deleted my feedback.  

I hate captchas too. They are a huge accessibility and usability problem. 
(Though textual/mathematical captchas are not too bad). And there are ways for 
spammers to overcome them (though sometimes it can be a good anti-measure).

> I
> didn't have time to type it again... the banks such, they are really
> bad when it comes to supporting computer technologies, and their
> business depends on computers!
> 

Yes, indeed. I should note that so far I didn't have any major problems with 
the Firefox support of the fibi.co.il site, which is my current bank, and it 
has an excellent reputation among Firefox users. Firefox support problems and 
such annoying misuse of Captchas may be indicative of much more major problems 
in the site and cluelessness as far as the web-designers are concerned. 

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

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Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
My Aphorisms - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html

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