Small debian based server distribution

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 10:31:17PM +0200, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 10:14 PM, Steve G. wrote:
>
>> And why or how is Ubuntu server different from any other linux server 
>> to make it that way?
>>
>> I use ubuntu on the desktop and am quite satisfied with it. I used to 
>> use RedHat/Fedora and Suse/OpenSuse, until I ran into some  
>> unresolvable cyclical package requirements a number of time (when you 
>> want program A which makes you first get program B, which in turn 
>> requires Program A - or a similar variation with A, B and C. It was 
>> possible to bypass that by forcing installs, and by writing all the 
>> packages on one line, and other such kludges, but every package with 
>> the problem (the problem were with YAST and RPM) had to be researched 
>> first. I got disgusted, tried ubuntu and stuck with it, so far without 
>> similar problems.
>>
>> I decided to use their server 'product' because I felt comfortable  
>> with the main distro, and again, have not had any problems to date -  
>> have not been rooted, owned or anything. Not that it can't happen, but 
>> I am sure it is the same with any other distro.
>>
>> If I am missing something, please advise - and suggest a better server 
>> product with an argument why it is better. I am talking a generic 
>> server - ssh, ftp, httpd, nothing unique at this point.
>
> Because UBUNTU is not intended for people who want to customize their  
> system beyond adding or subtracting whole packages. If you want a  
> feature not compiled in, you can do it, but are no longer able to use  
> their packages which means not using their update and dependency system.

False statement.

man apt_preferences and create your own little packages source, for
instance.

That said, I would prefer to use Debian as a base.

>
> If want to add something they don't include you can, but if it depends  
> upon a library they do include, there is no way to stop it from being  
> updated and your program breaking.

Ahem: if your package depends on a library, that library must stay
installed as long as your package is installed. That's what a dependency
means.

>
> They also do not test very well, I've had to use older kernels when the 
> latest new one would not boot.
>
> They have an attitude that deadlines are more important than function,  
> so one release (was it 9.04) would not boot on an ATOM based system,  
> something they knew about long before the release, but forgot to test it 
> on the final version and when they did and found it would not work,  
> ignored it.
>

> Their answer to many people complaining was basicly it sucks to be you.
>
> They often don't update packages between releases, so the bugs in the  
> last release's version of Asterisk for example, stick with you until the 
> next release of UBUNTU no matter when they were fixed. Yes, you can 
> install your own, but it breaks their whole system.

IIRC Asterisk was updated in each release of Ubuntu. They basically
maintain a diff over the Debian package. In 9.10 (IIRC) there was some
misforture of us Debian folks deciding to use a pre-release of Asterisk
1.6.2 because "it's a long way from freeze" and we thought it would take
shorter until it stablizes. It had some features some of us needed.
Sadly the shorter release cycle of Ubuntu meant that they ended up using
it.

>
> Another example is Netatalk. Since MacOS 10.5 came out, an option that  
> UBUNTU refuses to include is needed for it to work.  Same if you use a  
> Mac to maintain your system via a remote X session. It will work if you 
> use KDE or FVWM or twm, but not Gnome. Sucks to be you if you want to use 
> their fancy graphic tools to maintain your system.

(Citation Needed: bug number)

Who uses netatalk anyway?

>
> There used to be a work around, but it stopped working about a year and a 
> half ago.
>
> A generic server will be fine as long as you can live with their  
> restrictions. The moment you step out of the envelope, look out.
>
> Geoff.
>
> -- 
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM
> To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must  
> order dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden 
> to eat it. :-)
>
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