[somewhat OT] simple machine forums software update

[is123 at zahav.net.il]

On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 00:38:18 +0300
Nadav Har'El <nyh at math.technion.ac.il> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 04, 2011, is123 at zahav.net.il wrote about "[somewhat OT]
> simple machine forums software update":
> > I noticed today the simple machine forums software that is used for many
> > tech bulletin boards and forums has a new country in the countries list:
> > 
> > "Palestinian Territory, Occupied"
> 
> Do you seriously think that the authors of that specific software sat down
> and compiled a list of all 200 or so countries, and had a political debate
> on which country to accept, and decided on the fate of this "Occupied
> Palestinian Territory" based on a serious debate of the merits of Israel's
> position and that of the Palestinian position?

No, but based on posts on the simplemachine forums I think it's reasonable
to believe somebody with an agenda made the addition, since there were
debates on exactly the subject you mentioned, on their forum.

The country list was touted as a new feature on one of the forums I read,
and this was the first time I saw this. I guess I don't get out enough.

> Definitely not. They probably just took a country list that someone else
> compiled. E.g., perhaps they took a list from the United Nations:
> 
> 	http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49alpha.htm
> 
> Or perhaps they took the official list of "country names" from ISO, the
> International Organization for Standardization?
> 
> 	http://www.iso.org/iso/english_country_names_and_code_elements

Thanks for those references, I was not aware of them.

> As you can see, both lists officially list the "Occupied Palestenian
> Territory". So this is definitely not some anti-Israeli decision by
> some rogue antisemite free software developers, but rather a very sensible
> decision by those developers to take a list from organizations (like the
> UN and ISO) which they thought were impartial and professional.
> 
> So please don't complain about this "simple machine forum" or Richard
> Stallman (!?). If you want to pick a fight, pick one with the UN and ISO.

There we disagree. I appreciate and accept your explanation that the
country list probably came from elsewhere. But that does not mean the
people hosting forums or using software can throw up their hands and claim
it's out of their control. Free software is about nothing if not about
taking responsibility for content. I say responsible people would not
accept such a designation for a place that isn't even a country, and the
fact they got the data from elsewhere does not absolve them from
responsibility for using it.

> > Anyway if you run a forum and use this software and object to the
> > propaganda you might want to make your opinion known.
> 
> Please don't you spread propaganda against the poor guys who write free
> software, and just need to get an impartial country list from somewhere.

Why is it propaganda when I object to something, but not propaganda when
they make baseless assertions? And really, how do you call these lists
impartial, especially after all the points you made! And why do you feel
people who make content available aren't responsible for the content?

> So again, pick your fight with the UN or ISO - or create an alternative
> country-list project (good luck walking out of that minefield...).

Point taken. I'll leave that to somebody else. But I remain free to object
in public when I see propaganda in public. Freedom is a two way street.

> Just don't insult the free software developers who use the existing lists.

It's not an insult. Everybody is responsible for what they put out there
and nobody can blame the other guy. It's reckless to take data from
anywhere and just start using it. Using it constitutes approval.

Thanks for your post, Nadav.