From for.avraham at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 17:04:40 2020 From: for.avraham at gmail.com (avraham rosenberg) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:04:40 +0300 Subject: Fwd: debian 10-64bit fresh install - error messages In-Reply-To: <199978f8-bab4-9d3d-6793-dd7a40aadd98@shemesh.biz> References: <199978f8-bab4-9d3d-6793-dd7a40aadd98@shemesh.biz> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Shachar Shemesh Date: Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 7:19 AM Subject: Re: debian 10-64bit fresh install - error messages To: avraham rosenberg Hi Avraham, I think you misdirected this email. I'm fairly sure you did not mean to send it to linux-il*-owner*, but rather to the mailing list itself. Shachar --->Sorry Shahar. Once again, ?? ???, ????? On 05/04/2020 12:56, avraham rosenberg wrote: Hi, After more than 6 years of faithful service -debian stretch- the hard disk of my desktop crashed. After salvaging most of the data, I bought a new disk and proceeded to install the new debian10, the 64-bit version. Due to the long time which passed since my last install and to my age (87) I had to repeat it three time to get it right, but then it went smoothly. Upon the first, and following starts of the new system I got several error messages of type Could not resolve [\_SB.PCI0.SAT0.SPT5._GTF.DSSP], AE_NOT_FOUND (20180810/psargs-330), part of which appear in the output of dmesg (attached) . My guess is that these are due to the old age of the "BIOS", which I never tried to update -and I won't make my first attempt now, when it's so difficult to get help-. My questions are: 1-how dangerous it is to continue to work with a system in such conditions (for he moment, the system works smoothly) and 2-If you can recommend an alternative which does not require an update of the "BIOS". My computer is an AsusH81M-C. The system installed has localization none, display manager fluxbox, and terminals with diverse localisations which allow me to read and write in hebrew, frnch and german, beside the american english. I thank you for any advice. ?? ???, and keep corona away, Avraham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w1 at zak.co.il Thu Apr 9 17:35:59 2020 From: w1 at zak.co.il (Omer Zak) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 17:35:59 +0300 Subject: Fwd: debian 10-64bit fresh install - error messages In-Reply-To: References: <199978f8-bab4-9d3d-6793-dd7a40aadd98@shemesh.biz> Message-ID: I was curious so I googled for the error message and found the following: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/acpi-error-dssp-namespace-lookup-failure-ae-not-found-on-4-9-0-1/15474/3 https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/524202/acpi-error-message-ae-not-found-why-is-this-happening-now-it-did-not-happen-pr https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/acpi-error-%5Bdssp%5D-namespace-lookup-failure-ae_not_found-on-slackware-14-64-bit-4175448907/ https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=245918 The advice varies between: - Harmless, ignore it. - Update your UEFI/firmware - Revert a patch ( https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/b5c0875a16039d90f4cdf6b75ae4031daae01d56 ) My own advice: Given that your system is running smoothly, just ignore this error message. It will probably go away once you buy a new computer. --- Omer Zak On Thu, 2020-04-09 at 17:04 +0300, avraham rosenberg wrote: > [\_SB.PCI0.SAT0.SPT5._GTF.DSSP], AE_NOT_FOUND -- My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html From govershay at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 17:50:37 2020 From: govershay at gmail.com (Shay Gover) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 17:50:37 +0300 Subject: Fwd: debian 10-64bit fresh install - error messages In-Reply-To: References: <199978f8-bab4-9d3d-6793-dd7a40aadd98@shemesh.biz> Message-ID: Those errors state that your BIOS/UEFI doesn't support that feature. You can ignore that. Shay Gover On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 5:36 PM Omer Zak wrote: > I was curious so I googled for the error message and found the > following: > > > https://forum.manjaro.org/t/acpi-error-dssp-namespace-lookup-failure-ae-not-found-on-4-9-0-1/15474/3 > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/524202/acpi-error-message-ae-not-found-why-is-this-happening-now-it-did-not-happen-pr > > https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/acpi-error-%5Bdssp%5D-namespace-lookup-failure-ae_not_found-on-slackware-14-64-bit-4175448907/ > https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=245918 > > The advice varies between: > - Harmless, ignore it. > - Update your UEFI/firmware > - Revert a patch ( > > https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/b5c0875a16039d90f4cdf6b75ae4031daae01d56 > ) > > My own advice: > Given that your system is running smoothly, just ignore this error > message. > It will probably go away once you buy a new computer. > > --- Omer Zak > > > On Thu, 2020-04-09 at 17:04 +0300, avraham rosenberg wrote: > > [\_SB.PCI0.SAT0.SPT5._GTF.DSSP], AE_NOT_FOUND > > > > -- > My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory; > and its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anyone help? > My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/ > > My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. > They do not represent the official policy of any organization with > which > I may be affiliated in any way. > WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julianlx at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 10:26:40 2020 From: julianlx at gmail.com (Julian Daich) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 09:26:40 +0200 Subject: Spare SSD or IDE cable - Tel Aviv area Message-ID: Hi, I need to an IDE cable or and old low capability( 40GB) SSD disk to fix my main box. I am at Tel Aviv and spare parts are not easy to find in these days. Do somebody has any of them to give away? One of either will fix the problem. Thanks! -- Julian From govershay at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 10:35:34 2020 From: govershay at gmail.com (Shay Gover) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:35:34 +0300 Subject: Spare SSD or IDE cable - Tel Aviv area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe Zigzag has: http://www.zigzag2000.co.il/catalog/contact_us.php On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:27 AM Julian Daich wrote: > Hi, > > I need to an IDE cable or and old low capability( 40GB) SSD disk to > fix my main box. I am at Tel Aviv and spare parts are not easy to find > in these days. > Do somebody has any of them to give away? One of either will fix the > problem. > > Thanks! > > -- > Julian > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julianlx at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 10:36:02 2020 From: julianlx at gmail.com (Julian Daich) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 09:36:02 +0200 Subject: Spare SSD or IDE cable - Tel Aviv area In-Reply-To: <47D8967E-ED60-46B2-853C-917A1A4E4120@icloud.com> References: <47D8967E-ED60-46B2-853C-917A1A4E4120@icloud.com> Message-ID: El mi?., 15 abr. 2020 a las 9:29, Marc Volovic () escribi?: > > I can give you an old laptop drive or can LEND you a 250GB SSD. Hi Marc, The old laptop drive may help, however I cannot move away from Tel Aviv due to family concerns. Thank yo ant way! Thanks! Julian > Am located in Mazkeret Batya. > > ?mav > Marc Volovic > marcvolovic at me.com > > > > On 15 Apr 2020, at 10:26, Julian Daich wrote: > > Hi, > > I need to an IDE cable or and old low capability( 40GB) SSD disk to > fix my main box. I am at Tel Aviv and spare parts are not easy to find > in these days. > Do somebody has any of them to give away? One of either will fix the problem. > > Thanks! > > -- > Julian > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > -- Julian From julianlx at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 11:08:30 2020 From: julianlx at gmail.com (Julian Daich) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 10:08:30 +0200 Subject: Spare SSD or IDE cable - Tel Aviv area In-Reply-To: <9E46B915-B7C8-4129-9E03-AC024B767A7C@icloud.com> References: <47D8967E-ED60-46B2-853C-917A1A4E4120@icloud.com> <9E46B915-B7C8-4129-9E03-AC024B767A7C@icloud.com> Message-ID: El mi?., 15 abr. 2020 a las 9:37, Marc Volovic () escribi?: > > Mazkeret Batya is not far from Tel Aviv (i.e. 20minute drive, near Bilu Junction). Hi Marc, I live with elderly people at home and cannot use other transportation than walking or bike. That is the equation. Best, Julian > Your call. > ?mav > Marc Volovic > marcvolovic at me.com > > > > On 15 Apr 2020, at 10:36, Julian Daich wrote: > > El mi?., 15 abr. 2020 a las 9:29, Marc Volovic > () escribi?: > > > I can give you an old laptop drive or can LEND you a 250GB SSD. > > > Hi Marc, > > The old laptop drive may help, however I cannot move away from Tel > Aviv due to family concerns. > > Thank yo ant way! > > > Thanks! > > Julian > > Am located in Mazkeret Batya. > > ?mav > Marc Volovic > marcvolovic at me.com > > > > On 15 Apr 2020, at 10:26, Julian Daich wrote: > > Hi, > > I need to an IDE cable or and old low capability( 40GB) SSD disk to > fix my main box. I am at Tel Aviv and spare parts are not easy to find > in these days. > Do somebody has any of them to give away? One of either will fix the problem. > > Thanks! > > -- > Julian > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > > > > -- > Julian > > -- Julian From julianlx at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 17:45:49 2020 From: julianlx at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Juli=c3=a1n_Daich?=) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:45:49 +0300 Subject: [ SOLVED] Spare SSD or IDE cable - Tel Aviv area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Thank you All for all the help! Best, Julian El 15/4/20 a las 10:35, Shay Gover escribi?: > Maybe Zigzag has: > http://www.zigzag2000.co.il/catalog/contact_us.php > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:27 AM Julian Daich > wrote: > > Hi, > > I need to an IDE cable or and old low capability( 40GB) SSD disk to > fix my main box. I am at Tel Aviv and spare parts are not easy to find > in these days. > Do somebody has any of them to give away? One of either will fix the > problem. > > Thanks! > > -- > Julian > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > -- Julian Daich From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 22:22:38 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (shlomo solomon) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 22:22:38 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws Message-ID: Google/Gmail has decided to drive me crazy and I hope someone can help. Some background: 1 - my gmail address is shlomo.solomon at gmail.com 2 - all my mail is forwarded to my domain shlomo at the-solomons.net 3 - For MANY years, I've used Claws mail (and before that KMail) as my client because I HATE webmail in general and Gmail specifically. 4 - Claws accesses my mail over POP3 and SMTP 5 - to allow this, I have Gmail set up to allow POP access and my Google account set up to allow "Less secure app access" (Google-speak for anything not provided or controlled by Google). 6 - This setup has worked for at least 20 years and I've made no recent changes so there's no OBVIOUS reason for it not to work now. BUT, in the past few weeks, Gmail has randomly refused to let Claws access my mail. Sometimes this lasts for a short time and sometimes for hours or even a day or more. The Claws log shows: * Account 'GMail': Connecting to POP3 server: pop.gmail.com:995... [21:49:25] POP< +OK Gpop ready for requests from 89.237.110.180 s20mb165349719wra [21:49:25] POP> USER shlomo.solomon at gmail.com [21:49:25] POP< +OK send PASS [21:49:25] POP> PASS ******** [21:49:25] POP< -ERR [AUTH] Web login required: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 *** error occurred on authentication *** Authentication failed. I've tried all the solutions mentioned on https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 and many more that I've found in various posts and sites, but nothing seems to work. Among other things, I've tried changing my password, turning POP access off and then back on, turning "less secure" off then back on, and more. The only thing I HAVE NOT tried (because I'm afraid it will make things worse rather than better) is to set up two-factor authentication and use an app password - I also have no idea how this works (or doesn't work) in Claws mail. And as I wrote above, after a while, the problem solves itself. And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to my main account. So that's also weird. Any help would be greatly appreciated. From slitt at troubleshooters.com Sat Apr 25 23:10:57 2020 From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:10:57 -0400 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 22:22:38 +0300 shlomo solomon wrote: > Google/Gmail has decided to drive me crazy and I hope someone can > help. > > Some background: > 1 - my gmail address is shlomo.solomon at gmail.com > 2 - all my mail is forwarded to my domain shlomo at the-solomons.net > 3 - For MANY years, I've used Claws mail (and before that KMail) as my > client because I HATE webmail in general and Gmail specifically. > 4 - Claws accesses my mail over POP3 and SMTP > 5 - to allow this, I have Gmail set up to allow POP access and my > Google account set up to allow "Less secure app access" (Google-speak > for anything not provided or controlled by Google). > 6 - This setup has worked for at least 20 years and I've made no > recent changes so there's no OBVIOUS reason for it not to work now. > > BUT, in the past few weeks, Gmail has randomly refused to let Claws > access my mail. Sometimes this lasts for a short time and sometimes > for hours or even a day or more. > > The Claws log shows: > > * Account 'GMail': Connecting to POP3 server: pop.gmail.com:995... > [21:49:25] POP< +OK Gpop ready for requests from 89.237.110.180 > s20mb165349719wra > [21:49:25] POP> USER shlomo.solomon at gmail.com > [21:49:25] POP< +OK send PASS > [21:49:25] POP> PASS ******** > [21:49:25] POP< -ERR [AUTH] Web login required: > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 > *** error occurred on authentication > *** Authentication failed. Hmmm, why require a **WEB** login? Why not just a POP login? [snip] > And as I wrote above, after a while, the problem solves itself. It's intermittent. This makes things even more difficult. > > And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same > setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to > my main account. So that's also weird. I'd start by exploiting the differences between this one and the Gmail accounts that never display this symptom. Do you access it differently? Is the account set up differently on the Google side? Just keep trying to exploit the differences. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. I don't know how you're asking Gmail for your email, but if your email client is doing the asking, this could be a problem in your email client or its setup. Every 3 minutes I have fetchmail grab my Gmail mail (along with my Troubleshooters.Com mail and Earthlink and who knows what else). Every once in a while the fetchmail log shows a failure, but not enough to be a problem. You might try having fetchmail do the fetching, send it straight to procmail to sort into folders for your email client (or if you do it like I do, to your local Dovecot server.) All email clients suck. I use Claws-Mail. Claws sucks less than most, but it still sucks. I try to move as much computation as possible out of the email client. Dovecot works perfectly, month after month, year after year. Via IMAP, I use Claws Mail as a window into my Dovecot folders. SteveT Steve Litt March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb From linux-il at orib.net Sun Apr 26 00:49:53 2020 From: linux-il at orib.net (Ori Berger) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 00:49:53 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <439a0236-6504-bf49-7a30-ac7b87486abc@orib.net> On 25/04/2020 22:22, shlomo solomon wrote: > Google/Gmail has decided to drive me crazy and I hope someone can help. > > 5 - to allow this, I have Gmail set up to allow POP access and my > Google account set up to allow "Less secure app access" (Google-speak > for anything not provided or controlled by Google). No, that's not what allowing "Less secure app access" means. It used to be, that you had one password to an account (say, your gmail account), and knowing that password would automatically give every permission to whoever provided it. But as more and more things need to interface these things today, it is now common to break the security such that: a) There is still indeed one main account password (potentially aided by a 2nd factor), however ... b) That account password is ONLY used with the main interface - in Google's case, the "accounts.google.com" domain; and that once you log in there c) You can delegate specific, limited access to different applications through that interface. Now, as long as you're within the Google system (e.g. YouTube, Calendar, Hangouts, etc.), this is all handled internally. But as soon as you exit that system, e.g. by using Thunderbird or Claws, you have some friction with the delegation step (c). One way supported by Google (and Facebook, and Apple, and others) is OAuth2 - that app makes a request to Google for specific permissions; You log in to accounts.google.com (after being redirected into it by that app), and Google asks you to approve the specific permissions requested by that app or website. If you do, that app/site gets a "token" (for all practical purposes, a username+password for that app/site uniquely generated for that approval process) that they can use, but that is limited to exactly those permissions that the app requested and that you approved. Thunderbird has a "Google" connector these days which does exactly that. For older applications which do not support OAuth2, you can just go in and generate an "App specific password" and specify those permissions yourself; That's what you need to do for Claws. What you get is a password that (assuming you asked for smtp/imap access) only works for smtp/imap, and cannot be used to e.g. log into the Gmail web applications and set up new forwards/filters. I do not know, but I suspect, that they expect this password to be strictly used by one app - e.g., I expect them to reject it if one day they see it being used from Claws and the next day by Outlook; this information is sometimes available directly in the protocol itself - e.g. claws and thunderbird put a "User-Agent" mime header when they send a message - and is sometimes inferred - e.g., if you have an X-MS-TNEF header, it's Outlook) The rationale behind this system is not to give Google more control (it's not like you previously could add forwarding setup through imap/pop3) - but rather to limit the probability that your main, all-powerful, password would leak from systems like Thunderbird or Claws or PEBKAC which Google cannot directly secure. (There is, of course, a very busniessy reason here as well - sites like LinkedIn and Facebook used to ask you for your mail username/password, "so we could make it easier for you to see who of your contacts is in our system and send them invites", which is a bad idea for everyone involved except LinkedIn/Facebook - especially Google who competes with them; The speed bump and warning "they can READ YOUR MAIL" significantly decreased the viability of this spying method, to the point that LinkedIn and Facebook dropped it - opting instead to ask for those permissions on their mobile app.....) So, disabling "less secure app access" basically means "I will only use my main google password on the google web site, not in any other way", which is generally good for you. > BUT, in the past few weeks, Gmail has randomly refused to let Claws > access my mail. Sometimes this lasts for a short time and sometimes > for hours or even a day or more. > > The Claws log shows: > > * Account 'GMail': Connecting to POP3 server: pop.gmail.com:995... > [21:49:25] POP< +OK Gpop ready for requests from 89.237.110.180 > s20mb165349719wra > [21:49:25] POP> USER shlomo.solomon at gmail.com > [21:49:25] POP< +OK send PASS > [21:49:25] POP> PASS ******** > [21:49:25] POP< -ERR [AUTH] Web login required: > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 > *** error occurred on authentication > *** Authentication failed. I have experienced this before several times, and 95% of the time it is when I am outside Israel, which likely triggers the Google hacking/fraud detection system, as I am using an IP that doesn't fit my standard usage profile. If you have changed your ISP recently, either your home or mobile, or occasionally use a VPN or Tor and have used your account in non-standard (for you) context, that is a likely cause. Gmail accounts are highly sought by spammers as they have virtually no deliverability problems, and thus creating or stealing Google accounts is continuously attempted on a mass scale; Google spends a lot of effort fighting against this, and they have more false hacking positives than ideal, especially for people outside the Win+Chrome norm such as yourself. > The only thing I HAVE NOT tried (because I'm afraid it will make > things worse rather than better) is to set up two-factor > authentication and use an app password - I also have no idea how this > works (or doesn't work) in Claws mail. Last I used it, the 2fa and app passwords were independent settings; You should be able to disable "less secure app access" and set up application specific passwords without setting up 2fa. Once it works, it's actually better - generate an app password for e.g. your phone, and one for your laptop, and if one of them is lost you can revoke only that one -- while at the same time, be sure that even if you didn't revoke it in time, and a bad actor was able to retrieve the password from your mail program before you realized the device was lost -- they still could not use that app password to change your main password and lock you out from your account, or other bad things - only read/send mail (which is bad enough, granted, but not nearly as bad). > And as I wrote above, after a while, the problem solves itself. > > And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same > setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to > my main account. So that's also weird. No specific knowledge, but my inference is that Google has a "probable use profile" for every account, which includes a list of devices, browser versions, geographical locations, isps, times of day, distribution of emails replied per day, distribution of emails originated per day, average number of new contacts/addresses per day, etc -- that's useful both for targeted advertising and to figure out of the account has been hacked. For whatever reason, if my model is right then, from your description, this specific account seems to occasionally step outside of its "probable use profile" - either because of things *you* do (such as VPN, Tor, travel, etc) or because it's on the model's boundary all the time but *Google* tweaks some parameters (as they do often) and sometimes you end up on the improbable side. Additionally, you wrote you're forwarding *out* of Google and into your own domain - from what I gather, this should be fine. However, if you also have a catchall (or otherwise many accounts) that forward *into* a google account, I suspect based on my previous research that this would push you toward the hacked/spammer/improbable category. And last but not least - do not assume that no one is trying to hack into your account. It's possible that Google's hacking detection was actually triggered by a hacking attempt you are not aware of, and that they ask you to do a web login because they have much better control and authentication on that front. From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 02:00:44 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (shlomo solomon) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:00:44 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: <439a0236-6504-bf49-7a30-ac7b87486abc@orib.net> References: <439a0236-6504-bf49-7a30-ac7b87486abc@orib.net> Message-ID: Thanks for your very detailed answer. You make many valid points, but to summarize, I understand that you suggest I set up an app password and that may be what I'll have to do. BUT, as far as I've read, there IS a connection between the 2fa and app passwords settings. The Google support sites says: On the "Signing in to Google" panel, choose App Passwords. If you don?t see this option: - 2-Step Verification is not set up for your account. - 2-Step Verification is set up for security keys only. - Your account is through work, school, or other organization. - You?ve turned on Advanced Protection for your account. So setting this up may force me to use 2-factor to access other things, such as Google Drive. Just to be clear, I do not keep any sensitive data on Drive, so I really don't care if it's secure and adding 2 factor will be really inconvenient if it forces me to have my phone handy any time I want to access Drive on my desktop computer. BTW - concerning your mention of being out of the country, etc, that's certainly not the problem in these crazy Covid-19 days :-(. And I do not use tor or a VPN to access mail on Gmail or Claws. On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:50 AM Ori Berger wrote: > > On 25/04/2020 22:22, shlomo solomon wrote: > > > Google/Gmail has decided to drive me crazy and I hope someone can help. > > > > 5 - to allow this, I have Gmail set up to allow POP access and my > > Google account set up to allow "Less secure app access" (Google-speak > > for anything not provided or controlled by Google). > > No, that's not what allowing "Less secure app access" means. > > It used to be, that you had one password to an account (say, your gmail > account), and knowing that password would automatically give every > permission to whoever provided it. But as more and more things need to > interface these things today, it is now common to break the security > such that: > > a) There is still indeed one main account password (potentially aided by > a 2nd factor), however ... > > b) That account password is ONLY used with the main interface - in > Google's case, the "accounts.google.com" domain; and that once you log > in there > > c) You can delegate specific, limited access to different applications > through that interface. > > Now, as long as you're within the Google system (e.g. YouTube, Calendar, > Hangouts, etc.), this is all handled internally. But as soon as you exit > that system, e.g. by using Thunderbird or Claws, you have some friction > with the delegation step (c). > > One way supported by Google (and Facebook, and Apple, and others) is > OAuth2 - that app makes a request to Google for specific permissions; > You log in to accounts.google.com (after being redirected into it by > that app), and Google asks you to approve the specific permissions > requested by that app or website. If you do, that app/site gets a > "token" (for all practical purposes, a username+password for that > app/site uniquely generated for that approval process) that they can > use, but that is limited to exactly those permissions that the app > requested and that you approved. Thunderbird has a "Google" connector > these days which does exactly that. > > For older applications which do not support OAuth2, you can just go in > and generate an "App specific password" and specify those permissions > yourself; That's what you need to do for Claws. What you get is a > password that (assuming you asked for smtp/imap access) only works for > smtp/imap, and cannot be used to e.g. log into the Gmail web > applications and set up new forwards/filters. I do not know, but I > suspect, that they expect this password to be strictly used by one app - > e.g., I expect them to reject it if one day they see it being used from > Claws and the next day by Outlook; this information is sometimes > available directly in the protocol itself - e.g. claws and thunderbird > put a "User-Agent" mime header when they send a message - and is > sometimes inferred - e.g., if you have an X-MS-TNEF header, it's Outlook) > > The rationale behind this system is not to give Google more control > (it's not like you previously could add forwarding setup through > imap/pop3) - but rather to limit the probability that your main, > all-powerful, password would leak from systems like Thunderbird or Claws > or PEBKAC which Google cannot directly secure. (There is, of course, a > very busniessy reason here as well - sites like LinkedIn and Facebook > used to ask you for your mail username/password, "so we could make it > easier for you to see who of your contacts is in our system and send > them invites", which is a bad idea for everyone involved except > LinkedIn/Facebook - especially Google who competes with them; The speed > bump and warning "they can READ YOUR MAIL" significantly decreased the > viability of this spying method, to the point that LinkedIn and Facebook > dropped it - opting instead to ask for those permissions on their mobile > app.....) > > So, disabling "less secure app access" basically means "I will only use > my main google password on the google web site, not in any other way", > which is generally good for you. > > > BUT, in the past few weeks, Gmail has randomly refused to let Claws > > access my mail. Sometimes this lasts for a short time and sometimes > > for hours or even a day or more. > > > > The Claws log shows: > > > > * Account 'GMail': Connecting to POP3 server: pop.gmail.com:995... > > [21:49:25] POP< +OK Gpop ready for requests from 89.237.110.180 > > s20mb165349719wra > > [21:49:25] POP> USER shlomo.solomon at gmail.com > > [21:49:25] POP< +OK send PASS > > [21:49:25] POP> PASS ******** > > [21:49:25] POP< -ERR [AUTH] Web login required: > > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754 > > *** error occurred on authentication > > *** Authentication failed. > > I have experienced this before several times, and 95% of the time it is > when I am outside Israel, which likely triggers the Google hacking/fraud > detection system, as I am using an IP that doesn't fit my standard usage > profile. If you have changed your ISP recently, either your home or > mobile, or occasionally use a VPN or Tor and have used your account in > non-standard (for you) context, that is a likely cause. > > Gmail accounts are highly sought by spammers as they have virtually no > deliverability problems, and thus creating or stealing Google accounts > is continuously attempted on a mass scale; Google spends a lot of effort > fighting against this, and they have more false hacking positives than > ideal, especially for people outside the Win+Chrome norm such as yourself. > > The only thing I HAVE NOT tried (because I'm afraid it will make > > things worse rather than better) is to set up two-factor > > authentication and use an app password - I also have no idea how this > > works (or doesn't work) in Claws mail. > > Last I used it, the 2fa and app passwords were independent settings; You > should be able to disable "less secure app access" and set up > application specific passwords without setting up 2fa. Once it works, > it's actually better - generate an app password for e.g. your phone, and > one for your laptop, and if one of them is lost you can revoke only that > one -- while at the same time, be sure that even if you didn't revoke it > in time, and a bad actor was able to retrieve the password from your > mail program before you realized the device was lost -- they still could > not use that app password to change your main password and lock you out > from your account, or other bad things - only read/send mail (which is > bad enough, granted, but not nearly as bad). > > > And as I wrote above, after a while, the problem solves itself. > > > > And one more thing - I have additional Gmail accounts with the same > > setup and Gmail DOES allow Claws mail access, while denying access to > > my main account. So that's also weird. > > No specific knowledge, but my inference is that Google has a "probable > use profile" for every account, which includes a list of devices, > browser versions, geographical locations, isps, times of day, > distribution of emails replied per day, distribution of emails > originated per day, average number of new contacts/addresses per day, > etc -- that's useful both for targeted advertising and to figure out of > the account has been hacked. For whatever reason, if my model is right > then, from your description, this specific account seems to occasionally > step outside of its "probable use profile" - either because of things > *you* do (such as VPN, Tor, travel, etc) or because it's on the model's > boundary all the time but *Google* tweaks some parameters (as they do > often) and sometimes you end up on the improbable side. > > Additionally, you wrote you're forwarding *out* of Google and into your > own domain - from what I gather, this should be fine. However, if you > also have a catchall (or otherwise many accounts) that forward *into* a > google account, I suspect based on my previous research that this would > push you toward the hacked/spammer/improbable category. > > And last but not least - do not assume that no one is trying to hack > into your account. It's possible that Google's hacking detection was > actually triggered by a hacking attempt you are not aware of, and that > they ask you to do a web login because they have much better control and > authentication on that front. > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 02:28:18 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (shlomo solomon) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:28:18 +0300 Subject: message not getting through Message-ID: Unlikely that this is connected to my previous problem (because I'm sending from the GMail web mail), but, who knows .... Steve and Ori replied to my question about Gmail and Claws. I replied to both replies. My reply to Ori showed up immediately on the list archive, but I've replied 4!!! times to Steve and don't see my reply on the archive. I also did not get an acknowledgement (which is why I sent the message again and again). From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 02:30:41 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (shlomo solomon) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:30:41 +0300 Subject: message not getting through In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And just to be clear, my message about messages not getting through also arrived (and I got an ack) On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 2:28 AM shlomo solomon wrote: > > Unlikely that this is connected to my previous problem (because I'm > sending from the GMail web mail), but, who knows .... > > Steve and Ori replied to my question about Gmail and Claws. > > I replied to both replies. > > My reply to Ori showed up immediately on the list archive, but I've > replied 4!!! times to Steve and don't see my reply on the archive. I > also did not get an acknowledgement (which is why I sent the message > again and again). From slitt at troubleshooters.com Sun Apr 26 10:35:15 2020 From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:35:15 -0400 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: References: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> Message-ID: <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 shlomo solomon wrote: > >>It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > >>not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to Gmail - > just to download new mail. Euuuu, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not "bigger") than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin called "gmail". But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: Download and expunge. The following is the part of my .fetchmailrc that retrieves then deletes my gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you can do the exact same thing direct from Claws. poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' #portnumber 993 limit 50000000 warnings 3200 expunge 60 mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" fetchlimit 50 ssl; SteveT Steve Litt March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 14:43:51 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (shlomo solomon) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:43:51 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> References: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> Message-ID: I see what you're doing, but don't see how this would solve my problem. Moving from pop3 to imap would not change the fact that Google is not allowing me to login. And most probably, Ori is correct in his opinion that the problem is the login to Google services - not to pop3. Or do you think that procmail would be allowed to login where claws is not allowed? Just to remind you of what I wrote in my original post - this has worked fine for many years and since nothing has changed on my end, I have no reason to think that pop3 is the problem. On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 10:35 AM Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 > shlomo solomon wrote: > > > > >>It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > > >>not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > > > I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to Gmail - > > just to download new mail. > > Euuuu, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not "bigger") > than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin called "gmail". > But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: Download and expunge. The > following is the part of my .fetchmailrc that retrieves then deletes my > gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you can do the exact same thing direct > from Claws. > > poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP > user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here > pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' > #portnumber 993 > limit 50000000 > warnings 3200 > expunge 60 > mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" > fetchlimit 50 > ssl; > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il From moish at mln.co.il Sun Apr 26 18:38:45 2020 From: moish at mln.co.il (Moish) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:38:45 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> References: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> Message-ID: same here. using dovcot to handle my local folders. works like a charm for several years. I use IMAP wqo expunge to keep a backup on gmail. Oh, one more thing. Try to change the frequency of pop check. BWT I use gmvault to download all mail from gmail to my pc. On 26/04/2020 10:35, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 > shlomo solomon wrote: > > >>>> It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may >>>> not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > >> I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to Gmail - >> just to download new mail. > > Euuuu, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not "bigger") > than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin called "gmail". > But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: Download and expunge. The > following is the part of my .fetchmailrc that retrieves then deletes my > gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you can do the exact same thing direct > from Claws. > > poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP > user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here > pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' > #portnumber 993 > limit 50000000 > warnings 3200 > expunge 60 > mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" > fetchlimit 50 > ssl; > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 22:56:06 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:56:06 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: References: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> Message-ID: <20200426225606.35819fd8@shlomo1.solomon> Thanks to Steve, Ori and Moish for your help. All your suggestions seem good, but: 1 - I really did not want to make such major changes. If it ain't broke .... 2 - I'm just too tired or annoyed to have to waste so much of my and your time. Am I getting to old for this nonsense?? SO - I surrendered to Google and set up an app password, even though this forced me to first set up 2-factor authentication on my Google account. BTW - after setting up the app password, I dis-abled 2-factor, but Google in it's immense wisdom no longer allowed me to use the app password, so I had to go back to 2-factor and re-generate the app password. Still to early to tell how much 2-factor will interfere with my use of other Google products such as Drive, Youtube, Maps. But at least I have my mail back with no change to my old setup - except for the changed password. BTW - Steve: While looking for other solutions, I found your article on "Escape From Kmail". Too bad I didn't see this article years ago because a few years ago I too spent about a week figuring out how to get rid of the monstrosity of KMail and Akonadi and move to Claws. On a side note - I'm on Kubuntu 18.04 LTS and in preparation to upgrade to 20.04 LTS, I read that KMail and the entire KDE PIM are no longer the default on the new Kubuntu. Again - thanks for all your help And I will save this thread, in case I ever decide to do a major overhaul. On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:38:45 +0300 Moish wrote: > same here. > using dovcot to handle my local folders. > works like a charm for several years. > I use IMAP wqo expunge to keep a backup on gmail. > > Oh, one more thing. Try to change the frequency of pop check. > > BWT I use gmvault to download all mail from gmail to my pc. > > On 26/04/2020 10:35, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 > > shlomo solomon wrote: > > > > > >>>> It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > >>>> not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > > > >> I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to > >> Gmail - just to download new mail. > > > > Euuuu, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not > > "bigger") than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin > > called "gmail". But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: > > Download and expunge. The following is the part of my .fetchmailrc > > that retrieves then deletes my gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you > > can do the exact same thing direct from Claws. > > > > poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP > > user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here > > pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' > > #portnumber 993 > > limit 50000000 > > warnings 3200 > > expunge 60 > > mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" > > fetchlimit 50 > > ssl; > > > > > > SteveT > > > > Steve Litt > > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux-il mailing list > > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Shlomo Solomon http://the-solomons.net Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 From shachar at shemesh.biz Mon Apr 27 09:02:30 2020 From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:02:30 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shachar at shemesh.biz Mon Apr 27 09:12:53 2020 From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:12:53 +0300 Subject: message not getting through In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shachar at shemesh.biz Mon Apr 27 09:14:25 2020 From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:14:25 +0300 Subject: message not getting through In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <7317c1b9-5d32-590c-b313-552705e66157@shemesh.biz> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shlomif at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 09:39:12 2020 From: shlomif at gmail.com (Shlomi Fish) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:39:12 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: <20200426225606.35819fd8@shlomo1.solomon> References: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426225606.35819fd8@shlomo1.solomon> Message-ID: Hi Shlomo, On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 10:56 PM Shlomo Solomon wrote: > Thanks to Steve, Ori and Moish for your help. > > All your suggestions seem good, but: > 1 - I really did not want to make such major changes. If it ain't > broke .... > 2 - I'm just too tired or annoyed to have to waste so much of my and > your time. Am I getting to old for this nonsense?? > > SO - I surrendered to Google and set up an app password, even though > this forced me to first set up 2-factor authentication on my Google > account. > > BTW - after setting up the app password, I dis-abled 2-factor, but > Google in it's immense wisdom no longer allowed me to use the app > password, so I had to go back to 2-factor and re-generate the app > password. > > Still to early to tell how much 2-factor will interfere with my use of > other Google products such as Drive, Youtube, Maps. But at least I > have my mail back with no change to my old setup - except for the > changed password. > > > BTW - Steve: While looking for other solutions, I found your article on > "Escape From Kmail". Too bad I didn't see this article years ago > because a few years ago I too spent about a week figuring out how > to get rid of the monstrosity of KMail and Akonadi and move to Claws. > > Steve and you were not alone: * https://github.com/shlomif/convert-away-from-kmail * https://git.claws-mail.org/?p=claws.git;a=tree;f=tools;h=7404d880a11ff8308deb69bbf828df7c38d4d187;hb=HEAD I kinda miss the old pre-Akonadi kmail. :( . > On a side note - I'm on Kubuntu 18.04 LTS and in preparation to upgrade > to 20.04 LTS, I read that KMail and the entire KDE PIM are no longer the > default on the new Kubuntu. > > > > Again - thanks for all your help > > And I will save this thread, in case I ever decide to do a major > overhaul. > > > > > > On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:38:45 +0300 > Moish wrote: > > > same here. > > using dovcot to handle my local folders. > > works like a charm for several years. > > I use IMAP wqo expunge to keep a backup on gmail. > > > > Oh, one more thing. Try to change the frequency of pop check. > > > > BWT I use gmvault to download all mail from gmail to my pc. > > > > On 26/04/2020 10:35, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 23:37:11 +0300 > > > shlomo solomon wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>> It's easy to access email by IMAP instead of POP. That may or may > > >>>> not fix it, but either way, it gives you some info. > > > > > >> I don't use imap because I don't want to sync my Claws mail to > > >> Gmail - just to download new mail. > > > > > > Euuuu, I can think of nothing grosser (American meaning, not > > > "bigger") than syncing an email client to that rotten garbage bin > > > called "gmail". But nowadays you can use IMAP just like POP: > > > Download and expunge. The following is the part of my .fetchmailrc > > > that retrieves then deletes my gmail litttest mail. I'm sure you > > > can do the exact same thing direct from Claws. > > > > > > poll imap.gmail.com protocol IMAP > > > user 'litttest aatt gmail.com' there is 'slitt' here > > > pass 'my-ultra-secret-password' > > > #portnumber 993 > > > limit 50000000 > > > warnings 3200 > > > expunge 60 > > > mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" > > > fetchlimit 50 > > > ssl; > > > > > > > > > SteveT > > > > > > Steve Litt > > > March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Linux-il mailing list > > > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > > > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux-il mailing list > > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > > > -- > Shlomo Solomon > http://the-solomons.net > Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > -- Shlomi Fish https://www.shlomifish.org/ Buddha has the Chuck Norris nature. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 09:50:28 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:50:28 +0300 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: References: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426225606.35819fd8@shlomo1.solomon> Message-ID: <20200427095028.60e349b2@shlomo1.solomon> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:39:12 +0300 Shlomi Fish wrote: > > BTW - Steve: While looking for other solutions, I found your > > article on "Escape From Kmail". Too bad I didn't see this article > > years ago because a few years ago I too spent about a week figuring > > out how to get rid of the monstrosity of KMail and Akonadi and move > > to Claws. > > > > > Steve and you were not alone: > > * https://github.com/shlomif/convert-away-from-kmail > > * > https://git.claws-mail.org/?p=claws.git;a=tree;f=tools;h=7404d880a11ff8308deb69bbf828df7c38d4d187;hb=HEAD > > I kinda miss the old pre-Akonadi kmail. :( . > > > So do I, but Claws comes pretty close to what KMail used to be :-) -- Shlomo Solomon http://the-solomons.net Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 From slitt at troubleshooters.com Tue Apr 28 05:36:56 2020 From: slitt at troubleshooters.com (Steve Litt) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:36:56 -0400 Subject: Gmail and Claws In-Reply-To: References: <20200425161057.6d9756f6@mydesk.domain.cxm> <20200426033515.022a2ba3@mydesk.domain.cxm> Message-ID: <20200427223656.306284f2@mydesk.domain.cxm> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 14:43:51 +0300 shlomo solomon wrote: > I see what you're doing, but don't see how this would solve my > problem. Moving from pop3 to imap would not change the fact that > Google is not allowing me to login. It takes about 10 minutes to make the switch, and if necessary 10 minutes to switch it back. If it changes the symptom, then your mental model of how things really are (as opposed to their design or how a sane person would design it) was inaccurate. In other words, the bug could be bizarre, and if that's true, 10 minutes is the cheapest possible way to find out. I wish I had a dime for every time somebody said "it can't be that, that won't change it" when I recommended a diagnostic test, and then the diagnostic test changes it in an unexpected way. > And most probably, Ori is correct > in his opinion that the problem is the login to Google services - not > to pop3. > > Or do you think that procmail would be allowed to login where claws is > not allowed? That would be fetchmail grabbing your mail from the server. Fetchamail grabs it, then hands it off, on your local machine, to procmail to be sorted or /dev/nulled. In answer to your question, if Claws is buggy when it pulls pop, then swapping in fetchmail would fix the problem. Or, if the problem is with Google's pop server but not their imap server, then switching to imap would fix the problem. And if the problem doesn't get fixed, you ruled out some things. > > Just to remind you of what I wrote in my original post - this has > worked fine for many years and since nothing has changed on my end, I > have no reason to think that pop3 is the problem. That's my point. The past few weeks you've randomly gotten this error when pulling email. It's an intermittent problem, logic is the usual victim of intermittent problem, and it's often best to use an alternate set of debugging tactics when dealing with intermittents. What I'd do in your situation is: 1) Make a Claws folder just to contain downloaded stuff. 2) Temporarily configure fetchmail to retrieve from the offending gmail account and send the messages to procmail. 3) Configure procmail to place all messages in your new folder 4) Look for evidence of login failures In case you're using MH folders with your Claws, here are some docs on how to get procmail to drop messages into MH folders: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/mh-e/Procmail.html https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/336420/how-do-you-use-procmail-mda-to-deliver-files-to-be-read-by-mh https://linux.die.net/man/5/procmailex http://www.cs.utah.edu/~clake/soc_mh.html SteveT Steve Litt March 2020 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother? http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb From gabor at szabgab.com Wed Apr 29 11:35:05 2020 From: gabor at szabgab.com (Gabor Szabo) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:35:05 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue Message-ID: Hi, I have been fighting with this for several hours now and I feel pretty lost. I don't even know how to describe it in short. So I am describing all I have managed to find out in the hope that someone will have some idea or suggestion. I have a Lenovo ideapad on which I had Windows 10 and I think Ubuntu (about 8 month ago, so probably 18.10 or 19.04). As I recall I installed them dual boot, but as it was not my computer only the Windows was used. The built-in video camera did not work so today, following the instruction of the automated hardware check of Lenovo I ran the BIOS upgrade program. Since then I cannot boot the system, it does not even seem to recognize the harddisk properly. Before the flash I looked at the Boot section in the BIOS and as I recall it had 3 interesting options ubuntu something Windows (I don't recall the exact name) ATA HDD: SAMSUNG .... and a few about USD HDD/USE CD etc. now when I enter the BIOS I don't see the one that had Windows in its name. This seems like a problem :( ------------------------------------------------------------ If I set the "ATA HDD" as the first on the boot order I see "System bootloader not found" and then it reboots automatically. It also seems to set the boot-order back to 1. ubuntu 2. ATA HDD: SAMSUNG .... ... When I boot now it automatically gets into the grub cli: grub> grub> ls (hd0) (hd0,gpt5) (hd0,gpt4) (hd0,gpt3) (hd0,gpt2) (hd0,gpt1) grub> ls (hd0) Filesystem is unknown same with all the others except grub> ls (hd0,gpt2) Filesystem is fat. grub> ls (hd0,gpt2)/ efi/ System Volume Information/ This is the same as grub> ls / I have no idea what to do with this. I guess I need to find the /boot somewhere, but so far I could not find it. Any ideas here? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Booting from disk on key: I found a disk on key with Ubuntu 18.10 on it. After plugging in and changing the boot order in the BIOS I managed to boot from it. I could even connect to the wifi, but I don't know how to access the harddisk of the computer. sudo lsblk shows me NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT loop0 7:0 0 1.8G 1 loop /rofs loop1 7:1 0 87.9M 1 loop /snap/core/5662 loop2 7:2 0 140.9M 1 loop /snap/gnome-3-26-1604/70 loop3 7:3 0 2.3M 1 loop /snap/gnome-calculator/238 loop4 7:4 0 13M 1 loop /snap/gnome-characters/124 loop5 7:5 0 14.5M 1 loop /snap/gnome-logs/45 loop6 7:6 0 3.7M 1 loop /snap/gnome-system-monitor/57 loop7 7:7 0 42.1M 1 loop /snap/gtk-common-themes/701 sda 8:0 1 14.3G 0 disk /cdrom ----sda1 8:1 1 1.9G 0 part ----sda2 8:2 1 2.4M 0 part where sda is the disk on key. At this point I was wondering how could I access the HD when running Ubuntu from USB. any pointers, ideas are welcome Gabor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shachar at shemesh.biz Wed Apr 29 11:42:44 2020 From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:42:44 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gabor at szabgab.com Wed Apr 29 11:50:36 2020 From: gabor at szabgab.com (Gabor Szabo) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:50:36 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Thanks for the quick reply, at least I don't feel totally alone in this! On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 11:42 AM Shachar Shemesh wrote: > > On 29/04/2020 11:35, Gabor Szabo wrote: > > Hi, > > Since then I cannot boot the system, it does not even seem to recognize > the harddisk properly. > > Can you clarify something, please? Is it only Linux, or also Windows, that > won't boot? > The BIOS does not even have an option to boot into Windows any more. Linux gets to the grub> prompt and I don't know how to proceed from there. It does not show a grub menu. > > Because it certainly looks like grub starts, and is able to see the disks > (if not understand the filesystems). > > > Yes, that's how I understand it. > Some SATA/NVME devices have dual modes, settable in the BIOS. They might, > e.g., have a RAID mode etc. Some of those modes are not supported by Linux. > Resetting that in the BIOS should make at least your bootable DoK see the > disk again. > > > I saw that in the BIOS, I'll try that. > What I don't understand is why your Windows would stop booting. At the > very least, it should start the boot process and BSoD when the disk drivers > have changed for it. > My understanding stop at the point why would the bios flashing make the Windows entry disappear from the list of boot options. Gabor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shlomo.solomon at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 11:59:29 2020 From: shlomo.solomon at gmail.com (Shlomo Solomon) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:59:29 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20200429115929.4af3b9a3@shlomo1.solomon> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:35:05 +0300 Gabor Szabo wrote: > Booting from disk on key: > I found a disk on key with Ubuntu 18.10 on it. > After plugging in and changing the boot order in the BIOS I managed > to boot from it. > I could even connect to the wifi, but I don't know how to access the > harddisk of the computer. > > sudo lsblk shows me > > NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT > loop0 7:0 0 1.8G 1 loop /rofs > loop1 7:1 0 87.9M 1 loop /snap/core/5662 > loop2 7:2 0 140.9M 1 loop /snap/gnome-3-26-1604/70 > loop3 7:3 0 2.3M 1 loop /snap/gnome-calculator/238 > loop4 7:4 0 13M 1 loop /snap/gnome-characters/124 > loop5 7:5 0 14.5M 1 loop /snap/gnome-logs/45 > loop6 7:6 0 3.7M 1 loop /snap/gnome-system-monitor/57 > loop7 7:7 0 42.1M 1 loop /snap/gtk-common-themes/701 > sda 8:0 1 14.3G 0 disk /cdrom > ----sda1 8:1 1 1.9G 0 part > ----sda2 8:2 1 2.4M 0 part > > where sda is the disk on key. > > At this point I was wondering how could I access the HD when running > Ubuntu from USB. > > any pointers, ideas are welcome > > Gabor I can't help with Windows, but your final question seems easy (or am I mis-understanding?). If you just want to access the hard drive, why not try sudo fdisk -l to get info about the drive and then either mount the relevant partition manually or add it to /etc/fstab on the USB drive? -- Shlomo Solomon http://the-solomons.net Claws Mail 3.16.0 - Kubuntu 18.04 From shachar at shemesh.biz Wed Apr 29 12:02:25 2020 From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:02:25 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gabor at szabgab.com Wed Apr 29 12:10:09 2020 From: gabor at szabgab.com (Gabor Szabo) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:10:09 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 11:50 AM Gabor Szabo wrote: > Thanks for the quick reply, at least I don't feel totally alone in this! > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 11:42 AM Shachar Shemesh > wrote: > >> >> Some SATA/NVME devices have dual modes, settable in the BIOS. They might, >> e.g., have a RAID mode etc. Some of those modes are not supported by Linux. >> Resetting that in the BIOS should make at least your bootable DoK see the >> disk again. >> >> >> I saw that in the BIOS, I'll try that. > I changed the disk from RAID to AHCI in the BIOS and booted from USB and now lsblk shows the harddisk. sda 8:0 1 14.3G 0 disk /cdrom sda1 8:1 1 1.9G 0 part sda2 8:2 1 2.4M 0 part nvme0n1 259:0 0 477G 0 disk nvme0n1p1 259:1 0 499M 0 part nvme0n1p2 259:2 0 100M 0 part nvme0n1p3 259:3 0 16M 0 part nvme0n1p4 259:4 0 332.2G 0 part nvme0n1p5 259:5 0 572M 0 part based on this and after consulting my notes I can see that apparently I did not install Linux here, only allocated disk space in case I will want to install it as well. I can also see that this was done in December 2018, not that it matters a lot now. So now at least I can access the hard disk. That's a relief. Gabor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gabor at szabgab.com Wed Apr 29 12:13:07 2020 From: gabor at szabgab.com (Gabor Szabo) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:13:07 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:02 PM Shachar Shemesh wrote: > > On 29/04/2020 11:50, Gabor Szabo wrote: > > Thanks for the quick reply, at least I don't feel totally alone in this! > > Alone? > > > Sure, I meant being alone now here sitting at home and being afraid that my daughter wakes up an demands her computer, here main connection to the outside world, which I just bricked :) Gabor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shachar at shemesh.biz Wed Apr 29 14:11:05 2020 From: shachar at shemesh.biz (Shachar Shemesh) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:11:05 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gabor at szabgab.com Wed Apr 29 19:06:37 2020 From: gabor at szabgab.com (Gabor Szabo) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:06:37 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the end I created a USB with Ubuntu 20.04 and installed it in the empty partition that was already set aside for Linux. This configured grub so it now has a menu in which I can select either Windows or Linux. It also changed the BIOS so now I have a bootable entry for Windows as well as for ubuntu. The former gets me in Windows directly, the latter show the grub menu. All that after changing the disk from RAID to AHCI in the BIOS. Thank you all for your help! Gabor ps. The camera still does not work, but it does not work in Linux either. So maybe it was already broken when I bought the computer second-hand. Now I'll need to find and buy a small camera that can be attached to it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From boruch_baum at gmx.com Wed Apr 29 20:31:39 2020 From: boruch_baum at gmx.com (Boruch Baum) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:31:39 -0400 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <20200429173139.m3lgw52hrsdlsfdv@E15-2016.optimum.net> On 2020-04-29 19:06, Gabor Szabo wrote: > ps. The camera still does not work, but it does not work in Linux > either. So maybe it was already broken when I bought > the computer second-hand. Now I'll need to find and buy a small camera > that can be attached to it. Since you say that the machine was pre-owned... You never can tell what the prior owner may have done. If s/he's available to be asked, great, but here are some ideas that might save you time and money and convenience of getting an external camera: It may be that the prior owner at some point opened up the device, and that in the course of that the connector to the camera became loose, or the owner just neglected to re-connect it. Most laptops are pretty easy for a non-technical person to perform the minor partial dis-assembly necessary to access and service that connector. Sites such as youtube have plenty of demonstrations and walk-throughs; you may even find some specifically for your model, but the industry is a mass-market, and so it tends to build products very similarly. Typically, you would need to unscrew several ... screws, then use a blade to separate and pop the panel surrounding the keyboard, and then carefully move and detach the keyboard from the motherboard. At that point, you would typically be looking at an aluminum panel that insulates the motherboard from the keyboard rf. It should have a bunch of holes, each of which exposes a connector on the motherboard. Each motherboard connector is typically labeled pretty obviously (eg. mic, spkr, camera). A more involved but still doable repair is to replace the internal camera. Again, there are youtube videos. I did it once just for giggles, without using any special tools, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Just be patient and follow the instructions. If I were to do it again, I'd prefer to use the specialty separator tool instead of using a thin blade, but the thin blade worked. -- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 From poder.pinguino at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 16:29:41 2020 From: poder.pinguino at gmail.com (Amichai Rotman) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:29:41 +0300 Subject: Lenovo ideapad 710S-13IKB bios/boot issue In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: >> ps. The camera still does not work, but it does not work in Linux either. So maybe it was already broken when I bought >> the computer second-hand. Now I'll need to find and buy a small camera that can be attached to it. Before you go too far, take another look at the BIOS setting. A common tip, back in the day, was to disable the camera from the BIOS. It should be somewhere under the "Integrated Devices" menu... Amichai Rotman On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 19:07, Gabor Szabo wrote: > In the end I created a USB with Ubuntu 20.04 and installed it in the empty > partition that was already set aside for Linux. > This configured grub so it now has a menu in which I can select either > Windows or Linux. > It also changed the BIOS so now I have a bootable entry for Windows as > well as for ubuntu. > The former gets me in Windows directly, the latter show the grub menu. > > All that after changing the disk from RAID to AHCI in the BIOS. > > Thank you all for your help! > > Gabor > ps. The camera still does not work, but it does not work in Linux either. > So maybe it was already broken when I bought > the computer second-hand. Now I'll need to find and buy a small camera > that can be attached to it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: