[RBS] Kol HaKavod to Cahni Rosenfeld

Mon Jan 2 11:13:02 IST 2012

Thank you Channi, for clearly expressing what so many people feel.
I personally agree with every word you have written lately about the
current events in R/BS.
I am glad the moderator of this list chose to give you a stage here.
Whoever finds what you wrote offensive in any way shoud think again or take
a course in reading compreshension.
Channi, you are a brave woman.
Ayelet Granek
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Phil'n'Chanie Rosenfelder <
philnchanie at gmail.com> wrote:

> it is NOT A PERSONAL OPINION  to state that a gan has a wall around it,
> put up to keep the children from seeing other jewish children
> nor is it personal opinion to state that beit shemesh' problems stem from
> intolerance
> nor is it personal opinion to state that walls between preschools (or
> schools) are a form of intolerance
>
> other forms of intolerance, which have made life very unpleasant to many
> residents of Beit Shemesh are:
> - bullying store ownersto put up "tzniut " signs (with significantthreats,
> for more detaisl , ask teh store owners themselves)
> - threatenignthe editors fo local advertising bulletins with boycotts if
> they print information abotu Yom Haatzmaut and Yom Yerushalaim celebrations
> , or if they print photos of girls or even doll faces
> - standing outside preschoosl and schools davening that the school
> population leave
> - knocking on people's doors and 'asking" themto move out of hte
> neighbourhood
> - throwing stones at children in electric wheelchairs on Shabbat(happens
> that two of these children are close friends of ours, so I am not passign
> alogn hearsay here)
> - throwing stones at cars on Shabbat (as far as I understand, only a Beit
> Din can call for Sekila, and onyl under specific conditions)
> - sticking up posters that say "Jews hate Zionists"
> - putting feces in classrooms
> - calling children "prutzot" and "shiktzes"
> - newspaper articles celebrating the leader of the goons as Harav Hagaon
> Rav Heller (please, before you bring Hadash into your home, read the Hebrew
> side.  It is VERY different fromteh Englsih side, and it is the side your
> children are more likely to read)
>
> and, yes, it is intolerance to not demand of yoru own rav to get up and
> publicly denounce these behaviours, adn put ht eperpetrators in Heirem, as
> the implicit message is that it is okay.  You disagree? What would you
> expect of yoru rav if you found out that some parents in your shul / kids'
> school were seen REGULARLY going into local stores and takign "protection
> money" from the owners, with "psukim" on their banners, and articles in
> locla papers claiming that halachically they are allowed? If they were then
> explainign that all this protectionmoney is goign to Gemahim, so it is
> l'sheim shamayim.
>  If children were seeing this, you would want the rav to get up and say it
> is wrong and assur, no?  You woudl want to help your kids recognize when
> someone is misusing Torah and Torah sources.  You would want huge
> announcemets that Torah does not say the ends justifies the means.
>
> Are they "true hareidim" or not?  THAT is a question of opinion.
> Certainly the "hareidi tzibbur" has "benefitted" from such behaviours in
> the past  - it was through such behaviours :
>  that construction of the Ma'ar was cancelled ( leaving Beit Shemesh
> unattractive to working people and inaccessible to college students), that
> the early community of Beitar drove out its Dati-Leumi community, that Beit
> Sefer Etrog was removed from its first campus, that the 335 bus cancelled
> stops in Modiin and the 497 bus cancelled its stop near Bar Ilan
> university, that traffic no longer goes through Rehov Bar Ilan in
> Yerushalaim on Shabbat (causign peopel who need ot get to Har Hatzofim
> hospital to have to drive more) , etc
>
> And the fact that "Hareidi" violence benefits the Hareidi Tzibbur is that
> much more of a reason for REAL Hareidi leaders to get up and say it is
> passul.   To day that even if the Hareidi tzibbur would like the Orot
> school campus to belong ot Hareidi schools , that this is NOT the way to
> achieve that , and that , in fact, as we say to our children, "if you act
> like that, we don't want it!!"
>
> I apologize if people find this to be hareidi bashing, but really it is
> the opposite.  I am here because i believe that hareidi Jews are part of
> the Jewish people with whomwe must live and get along.  But it takes two ,
> honest and interested, sides to get along.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Leeba (Bell) Rosenthal <
> hazlucha at bezeqint.net> wrote:
>
>> I am more disappointed that people continue to refer to them as
>>  "charedim",
>> when in  fact they are actually nutcases, not true charedim.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rbs-bounces at cs.huji.ac.il [mailto:rbs-bounces at cs.huji.ac.il] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Susan Reuben
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 1:30 PM
>> To: Phil'n'Chanie Rosenfelder; BS_List; rbs lists - huji; Rbs2
>> Subject: Re: [RBS] where it all starts, and where it can end
>>
>> up until now there have been no personal articles written regarding the
>> chillul HaShem - on both sides - that is taking place in our community.  I
>> don't understand why this letter was accepted by the moderators, the list
>> is
>>
>> not a forum for giving personal opinions or speaking lashan hara.  Please
>> can the moderators make sure they this does not become a thread now for
>> taking sides on this issue.
>>
>> Shabbat Shalom
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil'n'Chanie Rosenfelder" <philnchanie at gmail.com>
>> To: "BS_List" <list at shemesh.co.il>; "rbs lists - huji" <rbs at cs.huji.ac.il
>> >;
>> "Rbs2" <RBS at yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 11:23 AM
>> Subject: [RBS] where it all starts, and where it can end
>>
>>
>> first of all, i want to publicly thank Yehuda Meshi Zahav for his
>> article in Hashavua B'Veit Shemesh
>>
>> second, for those who wonder how it can be that there is violence
>> against beit Sefer Orot -  after all , Hareidim are not hateful
>> people..
>>
>> BUT when they build a wall around the gan building, to shield their
>> children fromthe neighbouring gan, they are teachign the next
>> generation that "other Jews" are to be avoided at all costs, and even
>> when we, hareidm, move into a populated neighbourhood, we must shut
>> our neighbours out (or stand outside their schools saying tehillim
>> that they should leave)
>>
>> I am deeply sorry to be writing this, but i think that we have to be
>> able to take a stand, to demand that the wall be taken down,
>> we must remember that Hareidim who move to a city which is not all
>> hareidi (or that matter, to a country in which they benefit from
>> services provided by non-hareidim) have chosen to be part of a world
>> in which there are other Jews, and other people, and those people are
>> NOT a plague tobe avoided, BUT RATHER they are neighbours, relatives,
>> soldiers and firefighters to be appreciated and respected (and even
>> loved , at least Gd seems to think so)!!!
>>
>> Please, if you believe in HaShem, His Nation and His Torah, stand up
>> for Ahdut .  Tear down the walls!!
>>
>>
>>
>> It is my tefilla that the lists will not censor this email, and in
>> that way again prevent people from hearing other people's feelings and
>> needs
>>
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