OT: rooting vs. warranty in Israel? [Was: Linux with Android MTP]

[Dov Grobgeld]

The question is not limited to phones. E.g. you may also update the
firmware of your television, see:

http://openlgtv.org.ru/wiki/index.php/Wiki_index

If I could rely on the fact that the manufacturer/seller would have to
rescue me if I accidentally bricked my TV set, I might be more likely to
play with the replacing of its firmware.

Regards,
Dov


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Shlomo Solomon
<shlomo.solomon at gmail.com>wrote:

> Oleg Shalom,
>
> I'm pretty sure that the link you provided is a "generic"
> Samsung warranty (for appliances, TVs, etc) and not specifically for
> phones, so that would explain why there's no mention of rooting.
>
> I do know that the Scailex (official importer) warranty on Galaxy
> phones is even more "draconic" than I previously stated. Clause 10
> specifically mentions rooting and clause 13 mentions damage caused by
> installing apps, without defining how we know there is a "cause and
> effect". Here's a link:
> http://www.samsungmobile.co.il/files/docs/tudat_achrayut_pr.pdf
>
> As you correctly stated, we're dealing with Google, Samsung and (in my
> case) Pelephone. My kids' phones are guaranteed by Scailex, but I'll be
> getting a phone from Pelephone so I'll be interested to see what their
> guarantee says.
>
> Under Israeli law, all electronic goods costing over 150 Shekels must
> have at least a 1 year warranty. Here's a link.
> http://www.moital.gov.il/NR/exeres/8D759CFE-E35B-4F44-8642-B5CED0F7429F.htm
>
> The exception (according to that link) is intentional damage or
> unauthorized use, but I assume there could be a claim that rooting is
> "intentional" or "unauthorized" and everyone "knows" that it potentially
> causes damage. The law also states that if the provider proves
> negligence ("RASHLANUT") he must still repair damage but can demand
> payment. Again, who defines if rooting is negligence?
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 10:55:46 +0200
> Oleg Goldshmidt <pub at goldshmidt.org> wrote:
>
> > Shlomo Solomon <shlomo.solomon at gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > 4 - Speaking of rooting, I never understood why this voids the
> > > warranty. I'm not a lawyer but this needs to be challenged in court.
> >
> > IANAL, either, but I would be interested to know what the *statutory*
> > warranty in Israel is. I googled and even searched
> > www.consumers.org.il specifically, but didn't find
> > anything... :-( Ponters, anyone?
> >
> > For a non-lawyery explanation read on, or stop here.
> >
> > The "rooting voids warranty" clause that just about every manufacturer
> > and provider (the party who you really deal with in most cases, I
> > suppose) has does not have a leg to stand on in many
> > jurisdictions. Every manufacturer/provider will tell you that your
> > warranty is void if you do something 'unauthorized', but what they
> > mean is their *voluntary* warranty. They will conveniently forget to
> > even mention that there is also a statutory warranty. Oft-mentioned
> > is, e.g., the EU Directive 1999/44/CE that says that to void a
> > statutory consumer warranty the manufacturer/provider must *prove*
> > that the user's actions directly caused the fault. In most cases this
> > is far more difficult/expensive for the company than just repairing
> > or replacing the device. So is defending the position in a small
> > claims court.
> >
> > The usual advice is to 1) not volunteer infomation about rooting - if
> > you bricked the device they might be able to figure it out, but they
> > are unlikely to go through the trouble (and then prove that this was
> > the root cause of the problem) rather than just reflash the ROM; 2)
> > make it clear that you know your rights w.r.t. statutory warranties -
> > the manufacturer/provider takes a calculated chance that most people
> > don't. #2 is advisable even without #1.
> >
> > I think that in the US there also exists a Warranty Act that says that
> > the manufacturer/seller must prove the fault was caused by the
> > consumer. The actual applicable statute probably depends on the state.
> >
> > So, can anyone point to a source that spells out the Israeli law?
> >
> > > The last time I read a phone warranty I seem to remember that it
> > > referred to the warranty being voided if you install unauthorized
> > > software. But who defines what is unauthorized? Google? There are
> > > tons of apps on Google Play that require root so does that imply
> > > that rooting is allowed?
> >
> > You deal with Google, the manufacturer (e.g., Samsung), and the
> > provider or seller whom you actually got your phone from. They all
> > may have different *voluntary* warranties that may even contradict
> > each other.
> >
> > Samsung is a curious case, by the way. It was widely reported that
> > they refused to repair Vodafone-branded Galaxies because Vodafone (not
> > customer!) installed 'custom firmware' on them. On top of that, Steve
> > Kondik (a.k.a. 'Cyanogen') was, until recently, employed by Samsung to
> > work on CyanogenMod. The irony...
> >
> > By the way, I don't see anything specifically about rooting in
> >
> > http://www.samsung.com/il/support/warranty/warrantyInformation.do
> >
> > [Hebrew], but IANAL.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Shlomo Solomon
> http://the-solomons.net
> Sent by Claws Mail 3.9.0 - KDE 4.10.2 - LINUX Mageia 3
>
>
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